Topic: Been out for a week, must have missed some drama - who the fuck is ekiller? (Read 1131 times)

I think the words "simply because" are quite important in Mr. Wolf's quote, at least that's how I read it. I appreciate him taking the time to articulate his trust system usage, which I wholeheartedly agree with and I take a similar approach too. I do not include people "simply because" they hang out in Meta or other boards I post in. I may choose some users from those boards to include in my trust list if they're otherwise fit to be in my trust list. Correlation does not imply causation.

Given ekiller's trust list and the issues pointed out by o_e_l_e_o above, it would be hard to believe that users on the Turkish board evaluated this situation with proper care and diligence. Hopefully it's just a matter of time and better understanding of how the trust system works.

It wasn't "a couple more points" though. When he got voted on to DT1, he went from +0 to +11 instantly. Over the weeks which followed, rather than tidying up his trust list, removing banned users, etc., he added more users who had left him positive feedback to his own list, and boosted his own score to +13. In fact, he has added every user who has ever left him positive feedback to his own trust list, bar one. Viewing your place on DT1 as an opportunity to boost your own score from literally nothing to one of the highest rated users on the forum is not trustworthy behavior. It demonstrates both poor morals, and also makes us question why he is so desperate to have a high trust rating; historically, some users who have rapidly built themsleves positive trust have then gone on to use their newly elevated position to scam.

He was on DT1 for a full 2 months before he was excluded. During that time he added 3 new users to his trust list - 1 of which was red trusted, 1 of which was banned, and all 3 of which had left him positive feedback. During that time he distrusted 2 new users, both in retaliation. He was given 2 months to clean up his trust list and demonstrate good morals, and instead only used it to cement his own position further.

If he wants to add his friends to his trust list he's entitled to do so, but if other users don't want to see his shady self-boosting, then they are equally entitled to exclude him. As I've said before, I'm all in favor of decentralizing DT1 as much as possible, and if he wants to clean up his trust list then I'd be more than happy to review my exclusion.

I'll speak for myself to refute whatever part of this accusation may be levied at me:
I don't know where most of the people on my trust list reside, or from where they hail.  I know for fact that there are a few Eastern Europeans included, at least one Filipino.  Hell, I've even included a couple of Canadians, for fuck's sake.  Canadians!  If anything I think Americans are the minority on my inclusion list.  The other thing to notice, most of those on my inclusions haven't left me feedback of any kind.  And most of those who have left me feedback are not on my inclusion list.  So, where's the hypocrisy?

And just so you know, I've never excluded anyone for merely modifying their own trust list out of retaliation.  So that part of your argument holds no water.  But when someone does use his trust list for retaliatory purposes, it says something about that individual's character, and their decision making abilities, does it not?  So I completely disagree; someone who's stacking his trust list (and exclusion list) to artificially bump his trust score is not only providing a perfectly valid reason to be excluded, it also demonstrates unethical behavior.  When we have people like that on DT1 the whole community suffers.  Not just one local board.



Actually you distrusted me because I had you on my distrust list.  It was in fact retaliation.  And I think I gave you a perfectly valid answer as to why I excluded you.


And since I maintain my trust list and review my inclusions/exclusions on a regular basis, I'v since decided your contributions are more valuable than your transgressions are detrimental.  Therefor I've since removed you from my exclusions. 

And the only reason any of this matters to anyone other than me is because I'm on DT1.  Get over it, or do something about it!  My trust list is for my use, and my use only.  If it so happens that I get voted onto DT1 and now my trust list has some impact on the rest of the community, do something to change it if you don't like it.

As all of you can see from above, I don't give a single fuck who has excluded me, and I won't use any other criteria than that which I've articulated repeatedly to continue maintaining my list.

@direwolf
I dis-trust you because u dis-trust people without any logic
I sent u a pm, and your response isnt good for me

U are freedom to distrust ppl, like me and other

Thank you & xtraelv for your highly intellectual assesment on the matter; in fact I've quoted xtraelv's last post on this verbatim on that Turkish thread to help the Turkish community put things into a broader perspective.

Having said that, there is some merit to the outrage that is being experienced by the Turkish members who are being distrusted mainly because "If I feel that a member constructs his trust list for the sake of "awarding" his friends or countrymen simply because they are friends and countrymen, then I am likely to exclude that user."

precisely because a lot of members on this forum, including Turks and all other nationalities also feel that that's exactly the same way most core forum members construct their own trust lists. They point out, correctly, that it seems to be completely ok when most of the regulars that hang out at Meta & other popular English speaking sections look out for their trusted friends and close circles on their default trust selections, and yet when a Russian or a Turk or a Filipino does it, suddenly it's a very unethical 3rd world nepotistic behavior

You gotta admit it smells a little bit of hypocrisy and double standards, so if you think it's fair to black list a user you have never even interacted with just because you assume he likes his friends a lot and trusts their judgement (or that you assume somehow he is trying to create an unfair future financial advantage by boosting his +green trust by what a couple more points), that in my opinion would be an even weaker reason to distrust someone on your list than "retaliation".

If instead guys selected on DT like ekiller, were, at least initially, afforded the basic courtesy that this unknown foreigner might perhaps be a moral human being as opposed to a corrupt scheming scumbag, especially if hundreds of people seem to trust him, then the typically unnecessary theatrics going on in meta & reputation regarding these DT lists would be instantly reduced by about 90%...

There seems to be a lot of drama in the Turkish local board resulting from this one event.  A similar situation erupted not too long ago with many members of the Russian local.  In the past week I've been excluded by a couple of members who are active in the Turkish local board.  Since I've had no interaction with these particular members I suspect that it's retaliation for excluding them, ekiller, and possibly others who are active in that board.  One member opined that my exclusions are based on nationalist sentiment.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  

Although I am unabashedly a proud American, it's also fair to mention for the sake of this argument that my ethnicity is Palestinian Arab, and I was raised in a Muslim household.  I harbor no animosity towards anyone due to their national origin, ethnicity, religious beliefs, sex, gender, or any other immutable trait.

I don't know how many times I've said this, but it's worth repeating a million times more: The only factor that I consider when adding members to, or excluding members from my trust list is that member's own trust list and the reviews they've left for others.  If I feel that a member constructs his trust list for the sake of "awarding" his friends or countrymen simply because they are friends and countrymen, then I am likely to exclude that user.  If I feel like a member is building his trust list to elevate his own trust score by adding members who've left him positive reviews, then I am likely to exclude that member.  If I feel a user is actively trying to make the community a better, safer place for trading and exchanging ideas, that user is likely to get added to my trust list.  It's really that simple.

It's been my observation that users who kvetch and writhe because they get excluded from someone's trust list are usually the ones who don't belong in DT to begin with.  Just my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

Below is a list of the members who have me excluded, and I'd be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that they all (except the anti-Lauda bunch) excluded me due to retaliation.  Not once have I PM'd any of them to try to get them to reconsider my exclusion, not once have I shown any care whatsoever that I've been excluded.  If I get bumped off of DT1 tomorrow, life will go on, and I'll keep maintaining my trust list with the same approach I've used all this time.

~DireWolfM14 is Distrusted by:
1. babo (Trust: +6 / =2 / -0) (208 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. cryptohunter (Trust: +1 / =3 / -4) (155 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. buckrogers (Trust: +26 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 46 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. bamb (Trust: +0 / =0 / -2) (1 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
5. zazarb (Trust: +26 / =0 / -1) (DT1 (-3) 482 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. Vadi2323 (Trust: neutral) (84 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
7. WhiteManWhite (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (1) 64 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
8. TheFuzzStone (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (6) 559 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
9. endlasuresh (Trust: +0 / =0 / -3) (3 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
10. kenzawak (Trust: +2 / =1 / -13) (840 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
11. Bazinga442 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -7) (24 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
12. chickinini (Trust: +0 / =0 / -3) (11 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
13. cryptorgasm (Trust: +0 / =0 / -3) (4 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
14. Pablojob (Trust: +0 / =0 / -4) (10 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
15. PiningGarcia (Trust: +0 / =0 / -4) (10 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
16. PingGermoco (Trust: +0 / =0 / -4) (10 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
17. cryptopov (Trust: +0 / =0 / -3) (4 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
18. poypototoy (Trust: +0 / =0 / -3) (10 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
19. Zin-Zang (Trust: +0 / =1 / -7) (11 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
20. S_Therapist (Trust: +0 / =2 / -2) (271 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
21. H8bussesNbicycles (Trust: +0 / =1 / -11) (8 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
22. ito-marketing (Trust: +0 / =0 / -3) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
23. gwsukabokepjepang (Trust: +0 / =0 / -10) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

you will be removed from the DT1,if you arent going to signup with lauda's asslicking club..they dont want any outsiders so they can live happily ever after,thats the reason why you are excluded.

Sometimes people you like in real life are not suitable to carry the responsibility that forum trust requires.

I removed a number of people from my trust list that I trust on other platforms but that either broke the rules on here or do not show the responsibility that being on DT requires.

If someone is banned it shows that they were not prepared to follow the forum rules and most often that is either for spamming or plagiarism.

I'm reluctant to exclude people from DT unless they show they are not up to the task by giving questionable feedback. More DT's hopefully makes the forum trust system more robust. It is nice to see some new Turkish DTs. Forum bans are separate from trust issues but I recommend that you re-assess your stance on keeping people on your trust list that have a negative impact on the forum. It shows that you take the forum rules and etiquette seriously and are prepared to hold people accountable - including your friends.

I will not remove people I trust in my list in real life  ok ? Banned or not . I do not care.
It's not my problem that banned people appear on my list as BANNED.  If this is a problem that mean bitcointalk.org forum system is a problem.
Forum system can remove banned users completely in database. So they don't appear on anybody's list forever. 
But bitcointalk.org didn't choose that.

To be DT member is a award from the community to me. And they can take it back any time they want.

The only thing i won't do; To be involved in various strategic games.

I apologize if it came across as whining. I fully support your (or anyone's) right to exclude anyone for any reason or no reason. It's also great to have your comments on the situation. Thank you so much.

You really aren't helping yourself here. In the last week, you have added two new users to your trust list. One of them is banned, and the other has left 8 trust ratings. Both of them have left a positive rating for you. This kind of manipulation of DT to boost your own rank is pretty untrustworthy, in my opinion. Why are you desperate to appear as trustworthy as possible? What are you planning to do on the forum that hinges on other users trusting you with their funds or assets in a trade?

Furthermore, "paying someone back" is a lousy way to create a trust list. If this is your mentality, then you probably don't belong on DT anyway.

@suchmoon

 Talking with you is just a waste of time.   I didn't even know you existed until you add me distrust list 
And I PM you when I saw this

**************
Thank you for  ~ekiller (distrust) me without any reason.

I'll pay back it ASAP.
**************

So I add you as distrust too.  I paid back.

You started this game, I finished it.

Now you can stop whining.

That's awesome. They should be smart enough to figure out how to clean up their trust lists then.


False. I distrust users whose ratings and/or trust lists I don't want to see in my trust network. I stopped caring about impact on DT once that random shit started, and that's probably the right approach anyway.


You're doing it wrong, you're supposed to send me a butthurt PM first.

By rallier and other DT members are one of the most trusted members in our local section. You added them in your distrust list because you don't want other people to be DT member. It is a real drama, i'll add you in my distrust list because of your unfair behaviours.

I give merits for posts. Not based on whom I know. You can't seriously claim that I know 1000+ people on this forum.


Merit has nothing to do with trust. I distrust Quuckseller immensely but I do merit him occasionally when he's not being a total asshole.

And there is good reason to distrust you. Sending me the kind of PM that you did just cements that.


I don't have to like you or to know you and I don't consider that a problem. However, a shitty trust list is your problem and you might want to look into that.

This is exactly my reasoning as well. I would also add (for myself at least) that if ekiller wants to start maintaining a responsible trust list and stop artificially boosting his own trust score, I'd be more than happy to review my exclusion.

I have nothing against ekiller, but I excluded him as well.  Retaliatory exclusions and stacking his trust list with his friends are a signs of making trust-list decisions for the wrong reasons.  I have no cause to distrust ekiller, but I don't value his trust list, and like suchmoon, prefer to not allow it to influence the ratings I see. 

This doesn't prevent ekiller from being a factor in the reviews others see.  If anyone from the Turkish community (or any member of this forum for that matter) is in disagreement with me, they may add ekiller to their trust list, and it'll be as if he's still on DT.

Agreed, they should just bear in mind that doing that is essentially saying: "I believe the ban decision was not accurate, this person's judgement deserves to continue to
influence the reputation system in the forum" in the current system, and I'm sure most guys were not aware of that in the Turkish section...

I've just made a thread on the local section also quoting your good advice by the way: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.52241677

I encourage all local boards to promote custom Trust lists. Let me quote myself:
It's entirely up to to a user if they want to include banned users, but they shouldn't be surprised if others exclude them for putting banned or red trusted users on DT2.

Obviously I can't read those boards, but this doesn't have anything to do with being on DT1. I don't think excluding people for no other reason than retaliation is good behaviour.