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Topic: Belgium Bans Virtual Derivatives (Read 2476 times)

sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 257
bluemeanie
June 02, 2014, 11:04:54 AM
#34

From you, I am not picking up the distinct odor of unfettered idealism. It's the principle, man - the principle!

the principle that they dont want to regulate bitcoin...?
the principle that they dont want to offer money transmission licences for bitcoin businesses... ?
the principle that they want to keep their FIAT bait and switch tricks within their own non bitcoin boys clubs?
the principle that nothing stops people from buying bitcoin normally.. and then using bitcoin however people please?

all i see as being banned is FIAT paying EFT's that have a bitcoin hoard in the middle of it. basically no belgium winklevoss clones asking for Euro's for their shares.

which to me does not affect bitcoins usage or growth, just prevents FIAT investors making more FIAT.

If I'm reading the thread right this would also affect people doing useful commerce in bitcoin by preventing them from insuring themselves against changes in the price that affect them adversely. For example, if you're earning bitcoins but you need to pay your suppliers in euros, you'd want to short bitcoins to reduce your exposure. That way you'd give up part of the gains you make if the value of the bitcoin suddenly increased, but if the value of the bitcoin dropped, you'd still be able afford to pay your bills.

The result is exactly the opposite of what the regulators say they're trying to achieve, because the vendor ends up much more exposed to currency volatility than they could be.

that's an interesting theory, and certainly if we did have an options market the price would be much more stable and it would be easier to conduct commerce in Bitcoin.

-bm
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1090
Learning the troll avoidance button :)
June 02, 2014, 01:23:34 AM
#33
This seems like an interesting legal decision I wonder how they came to that decision legal process.
That said if it is only derivatives that isn't so bad as an outright ban on virtual currencies.
So no Bitcoin futures trading fund etc.

Congrats you beat bitlegal on this one just hope it doesn't turn into a trend
http://bitlegal.net/nation/BE.php

sr. member
Activity: 352
Merit: 250
https://www.realitykeys.com
June 02, 2014, 01:13:05 AM
#32

From you, I am not picking up the distinct odor of unfettered idealism. It's the principle, man - the principle!

the principle that they dont want to regulate bitcoin...?
the principle that they dont want to offer money transmission licences for bitcoin businesses... ?
the principle that they want to keep their FIAT bait and switch tricks within their own non bitcoin boys clubs?
the principle that nothing stops people from buying bitcoin normally.. and then using bitcoin however people please?

all i see as being banned is FIAT paying EFT's that have a bitcoin hoard in the middle of it. basically no belgium winklevoss clones asking for Euro's for their shares.

which to me does not affect bitcoins usage or growth, just prevents FIAT investors making more FIAT.

If I'm reading the thread right this would also affect people doing useful commerce in bitcoin by preventing them from insuring themselves against changes in the price that affect them adversely. For example, if you're earning bitcoins but you need to pay your suppliers in euros, you'd want to short bitcoins to reduce your exposure. That way you'd give up part of the gains you make if the value of the bitcoin suddenly increased, but if the value of the bitcoin dropped, you'd still be able afford to pay your bills.

The result is exactly the opposite of what the regulators say they're trying to achieve, because the vendor ends up much more exposed to currency volatility than they could be.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
May 31, 2014, 07:44:04 AM
#31
I know what derivatives are, but i'm not sure bitcoin needs them.

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
May 23, 2014, 12:50:30 PM
#30
And we are concerned about what Belgium thinks, just why?

Because they make my favourite beer, Hoegaarden. This alone makes Belgium more important than pretty much any other European state, except the one that I happen to be in at any one time.

Well, there is that I guess.
newbie
Activity: 21
Merit: 0
May 23, 2014, 03:57:47 AM
#29
Great chocolate as well - what else do you need? Beer and chocolate!

Anyway, apparently it will be illegal to offer a financial product which derives its yield, value from virtual currency, but only to non-professional clients.

This seems to be about consumer protection more than anything else.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Professional anarchist
May 23, 2014, 02:13:22 AM
#28
And we are concerned about what Belgium thinks, just why?

Because they make my favourite beer, Hoegaarden. This alone makes Belgium more important than pretty much any other European state, except the one that I happen to be in at any one time.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
May 22, 2014, 11:09:53 PM
#27
Now let me see here...........................

The Belgians.

Is that the same lot who many years ago claimed to own a place in Africa called the Belgian Congo?

Yeah.

Oh, wait.

Excuse me.

It was the King of The Belgians who claimed that one and of course in order to support that claim, he ordered the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of locals and virtually enslaved millions.

And we are concerned about what Belgium thinks, just why?
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 257
bluemeanie
May 22, 2014, 10:12:25 PM
#26
btw - rumor has it they are releasing an entire suite of Forex Futures on NXT.

-bm
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
May 22, 2014, 10:10:34 PM
#25
so far I'm pretty sure not a single person in this thread actually knows what a Derivative is.

-bm

Wrongo, Boyo!
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
May 22, 2014, 03:05:43 PM
#24
Wait a second, when the say "derivatives based on virtual currencies" do they mean derivatives that trade as traditional assets where crytpo is the underlying?  Or do they mean derivatives issued through a process such as coloring coins, where the underlying is, for example, USD?

I'm pretty sure they mean the former (and don't even comprehend the latter).
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 257
bluemeanie
May 22, 2014, 02:39:31 PM
#23
as I mentioned above I think this is direct response to ShortNXT.

-bm
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
May 22, 2014, 02:38:16 PM
#22
Wait a second, when the say "derivatives based on virtual currencies" do they mean derivatives that trade as traditional assets where crytpo is the underlying?  Or do they mean derivatives issued through a process such as coloring coins, where the underlying is, for example, USD?
legendary
Activity: 4270
Merit: 4534
May 22, 2014, 02:28:44 PM
#21

From you, I am not picking up the distinct odor of unfettered idealism. It's the principle, man - the principle!

the principle that they dont want to regulate bitcoin...?
the principle that they dont want to offer money transmission licences for bitcoin businesses... ?
the principle that they want to keep their FIAT bait and switch tricks within their own non bitcoin boys clubs?
the principle that nothing stops people from buying bitcoin normally.. and then using bitcoin however people please?

all i see as being banned is FIAT paying EFT's that have a bitcoin hoard in the middle of it. basically no belgium winklevoss clones asking for Euro's for their shares.

which to me does not affect bitcoins usage or growth, just prevents FIAT investors making more FIAT.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1015
May 22, 2014, 02:18:16 PM
#20
in short, peeling away the opinions of reporters and forum people

a derivative is essentially what the winklevosses are doing. hoarding bitcoin and offering shares paid in fiat, where the share is based on the price of the bitcoin hoard.

so no belgium EFT basically.

they also make a statement that although the same risks apply there is nothing stopping people from buying actual bitcoins.

so chill out folks
From you, I am not picking up the distinct odor of unfettered idealism. It's the principle, man - the principle!
legendary
Activity: 4270
Merit: 4534
May 22, 2014, 02:16:35 PM
#19
in short, peeling away the opinions of reporters and forum people

a derivative is essentially what the winklevosses are doing. hoarding bitcoin and offering shares paid in fiat, where the share is based on the price of the bitcoin hoard.

so no belgium EFT basically.

they also make a statement that although the same risks apply there is nothing stopping people from buying actual bitcoins.

so chill out folks
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1015
May 22, 2014, 01:49:52 PM
#18
Y'know... their reasoning's fairly sound. I don't think they should have authority to do such a thing, but it doesn't seem particularly unreasonable a position for a conservative nation stuck in the 20th century, clinging to extreme luddite worldviews which will maintain them as a footnote in history, lagging in global GDP growth and continuing to treat their citizens as some type of abominable dog-children while the prestige of holding the highest public offices in Belgium does not rise any more than that of the local rat-catcher.

*cough*

But yes, extrapolating from the apparently-accepted axioms was done in proper fashion, I think.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 257
bluemeanie
May 22, 2014, 01:43:57 PM
#17
Quote
it appears to be a response to the release of ShortNXT which is the first pure P2P Crypto Derivative.  You can purchase short positions(NXT is the underlying) on the NXT network

still wondering if any post is not about NXT   Grin

can I buy derivatives on Bitcoin?

-bm
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1000
May 22, 2014, 01:41:16 PM
#16
Clearly the Belgian government wants to straddle their citizens by not allowing them to straddle Bitcoins...
sr. member
Activity: 518
Merit: 250
May 22, 2014, 01:36:50 PM
#15
Quote
it appears to be a response to the release of ShortNXT which is the first pure P2P Crypto Derivative.  You can purchase short positions(NXT is the underlying) on the NXT network

still wondering if any post is not about NXT   Grin
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