Best open source hardware wallets for BTC? - page 2.

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Quote from: Upgrade00 on May 31, 2023, 12:12:06 PM

Quote from: leonair on May 31, 2023, 11:51:34 AM

Ledger is a good hardware wallet.

But it's not. With the whole obscurity about how they encryp your seedphrase to be able to recover your private keys should you get a new ledger device, it's best to go for the better, more transparent alternatives.

This is also not the first time ledger wallet has come under scrutiny, there have bee data breaches in the past that exposed its users to personalized scams. They also did not reveal the hack early enough but waited about a month before reporting on the hack, not giving their users a heads up to change their personal details on other platforms.

Let's not make a bigger deal out of it than it really is. The data breaches were related to customers who purchased their devices directly from ledger and all the breach revealed was their shipping addresses, so it wasn't such a big deal. If you were actively using online stores for the last 10 years, your address is being included in hacked databases sold on deep web anyway. Many people, including me, bought our ledgers from resellers, and we were not affected by that.

I agree that their recent update is unnecessary and in breach of the basic rules of self custody, so I recommend not updating your ledger if you have one and slowly thinking of a new wallet, because one day that update may become mandatory and then you'll become vulnerable. Still with that last update ledger is safer than your average exchange.

As for wallets, I recomend blockstream jade or keystone. Keystone is easier to use but more bulky and supports a number of shitcoins, so if you're not into that and support bitcoin only wallets choose jade. Both have qr scanners and run on batteries, so they're much better than ledger nano.

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 07, 2023, 03:27:30 PM

According to what I found out about Passport, it is regarded as open source, even by some members on this forum.

How is it then that Trezor is working on developing the first open-source secure element chip if Passport is already using one? To be more precise, Trezor was talking about as open-source as possible.

Quote from: m2017 on June 08, 2023, 12:20:04 PM

Why do you think that cryptocurrencies have no future in this scenario?

Like everything in life, most people prefer to pay for the finished products. When you buy a new TV, you won't build and piece together the components yourself. If Sony sold PlayStations like Legos that you had to build yourself, it would be at the bottom of a gamer's wish list. Everything crypto needs to be simplified, so those who know almost nothing can quickly get the hang of it. If everyone has to build their own wallets in the future, this rocket will never take off.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 08, 2023, 03:38:42 AM

Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 07, 2023, 03:27:30 PM

I am not a programming, but I will like someone that knows about it like o_e_l_e_o to comment about it here. But if everything I have found out about the wallet is true, the secure element should be open source.

The source for everything to do with a Passport is viewable on their GitHub.

The physical Passport assembly can viewed here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport-assembly
The hardware for the three boards within a Passport can be viewed here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport-electronics
And finally the firmware: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport-firmware

For Passport Version 2, the physical and hardware files are here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport2-hardware
And the firmware is here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport2

The companion app Envoy is here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/envoy

Your telling is correct only i think so , most of crypto users are having privacy and security and compare to this all like Convenience only and ledger or losses to this reason the costumers and truthfully not carrying person comparing and this is not a big issue and like me crypto currency experience person , crypto black chain technology having truth value and seen some different routes .

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Quote from: Pmalek on June 07, 2023, 01:16:22 PM

~snip

Quote from: m2017 on June 04, 2023, 08:42:10 AM

A HW device can remain safe if it is not assembled / created by the hands of such companies as Ledger or Trezor. I am inclined to believe that sooner or later any manufacturer of hardware wallets may come under pressure from states, and even ideological companies (supporters of the ideas of the cryptocommunity) will be forced to surrender. Therefore, I believe that the safest HW wallet will be the device that you assemble with your own hands. The BTC-community needs to look in this direction and develop such an opportunity, when even an ordinary user without special technical skills can assemble such a device as a designer. Assembled the physical part, installed the firmware, connected it to electrum and use it.

Decentralized hardware wallets must also be decentralized, otherwise all this decentralization becomes meaningless. Bitcoin in your wallet should not depend on ~~HW manufacturers~~ anyone.

There is nothing wrong with your post except most people aren't interested in assembling their own devices. And they shouldn't have to do that to interact with cryptocurrencies. If that becomes a norm, then we can call it a day. Crypto has no future in that scenario.

Yes, I understand your point of view. For the mass user, simple and easily understandable solutions are needed, which, in general, crypto community received as a result. Any hardware wallet is able to master the average user. But as it turns out, the side effects of these devices have been dependence on manufacturers who can do whatever they want with their products, even if it allows them to neglect the interests of their customers and may jeopardize the safety of their crypto assets.

Why do you think that cryptocurrencies have no future in this scenario? Because it won't allow the crypto to go mainstream and become just a niche product that only geeks can master. It seems that this stage is already in the past.

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 07, 2023, 03:27:30 PM

I am not a programming, but I will like someone that knows about it like o_e_l_e_o to comment about it here. But if everything I have found out about the wallet is true, the secure element should be open source.

The source for everything to do with a Passport is viewable on their GitHub.

The physical Passport assembly can viewed here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport-assembly
The hardware for the three boards within a Passport can be viewed here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport-electronics
And finally the firmware: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport-firmware

For Passport Version 2, the physical and hardware files are here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport2-hardware
And the firmware is here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport2

The companion app Envoy is here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/envoy

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Quote from: Pmalek on June 07, 2023, 01:16:22 PM

Secure Elements are generally closed-source, in Ledger and elsewhere. Even Passport I think is using a closed-source SE, the same one used by other brands like Coldcard.

Coldcard secure element is close source, that means the hardware wallet is close source, just like Legder Nano.

According to what I found out about Passport, it is regarded as open source, even by some members on this forum.

Quote from: https://cyphersafe.io/product/passport/

Open Source

The best security is through openness, not secrecy. Passport is proudly open source – all software, electrical, and mechanical components are open and auditable. There is no hidden code or restricted information. You can even build a Passport yourself, from scratch!

Our hardware is open sourced via CERN’s Open Hardware License and our firmware via GPL. This means that Passport meets the legal definition for open source hardware. You can view the electronics here and firmware here. Mechanical designs will be posted soon.

I am not a programming, but I will like someone that knows about it like o_e_l_e_o to comment about it here. But if everything I have found out about the wallet is true, the secure element should be open source.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Abiky on May 31, 2023, 11:25:12 AM

I've been using a Ledger Nano for years but not being open source is a deal breaker for me.

Not to be harsh, but if closed-source is a deal-breaker, what have you been waiting for in all your years of using Ledger? The wallet was closed-source back then and still is now. The question is how has that affected your use of it? The real deal-breaker and reason to abandon Ledger is their upcoming Ledger Recover feature. I agree with that.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 31, 2023, 11:31:04 AM

...the secure element in all their wallets are all close source.

Secure Elements are generally closed-source, in Ledger and elsewhere. Even Passport I think is using a closed-source SE, the same one used by other brands like Coldcard.

Quote from: m2017 on June 04, 2023, 08:42:10 AM

A HW device can remain safe if it is not assembled / created by the hands of such companies as Ledger or Trezor. I am inclined to believe that sooner or later any manufacturer of hardware wallets may come under pressure from states, and even ideological companies (supporters of the ideas of the cryptocommunity) will be forced to surrender. Therefore, I believe that the safest HW wallet will be the device that you assemble with your own hands. The BTC-community needs to look in this direction and develop such an opportunity, when even an ordinary user without special technical skills can assemble such a device as a designer. Assembled the physical part, installed the firmware, connected it to electrum and use it.

Decentralized hardware wallets must also be decentralized, otherwise all this decentralization becomes meaningless. Bitcoin in your wallet should not depend on ~~HW manufacturers~~ anyone.

There is nothing wrong with your post except most people aren't interested in assembling their own devices. And they shouldn't have to do that to interact with cryptocurrencies. If that becomes a norm, then we can call it a day. Crypto has no future in that scenario.

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Quote from: Pmalek on June 06, 2023, 11:04:33 AM

I don't think they are. If Ledger is good at one thing, that's marketing and advertising their products and services. They did a lousy job with the PR for Ledger Recover the first time. I think they will hang back, gather their thoughts, and try again once the storm passes.

We are forgetting that many ideas shared by members of this forum is not what the regular crypto user thinks. The average person isn't going to run their own node, stay clear of centralized exchanges, never submit KYC, or worry too much about privacy-invasive software and services. I don't think they will see the dangers in sharing their seeds with multiple online partners either if you package it and sell it to them in a nice wrapping.

Ledger will probably lose a percentage of their current userbase because people have found out their hardware wallets aren't as safe as they trusted Ledger they would be. In the long run, they might make up for it with new users, like the millions of mothers Roll Eyes

looking to purchase hardware wallets where there is a system in place to correct their mistakes.

I guess you're right. The vast majority of crypto users want convenience on top of privacy/security/decentralization. While Ledger will lose customers because of its recovery service, it won't be much of a big deal compared to the rest of the people who really don't care about anything. For crypto veterans like myself, we would look into other alternatives that respects the true values of crypto/Blockchain tech. I'm glad there are plenty of open source alternatives on the market. This would make crypto stronger in the long run. Would you imagine hardware wallet companies being compromised by the government in the future? If there were no open source wallets, no one would be able to use a hardware wallet without giving away their privacy and freedom. I hope Ledger learns its lesson and decides to abandon plans to launch the recovery service. Maybe it will turn into an open source hardware wallet company in the long run? Roll Eyes

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Quote from: Abiky on June 05, 2023, 04:23:37 PM

I'd steer clear from any Ledger products, and choose an open source alternative instead. Who knows if the company's days are numbered? Just my thoughts Grin

I don't think they are. If Ledger is good at one thing, that's marketing and advertising their products and services. They did a lousy job with the PR for Ledger Recover the first time. I think they will hang back, gather their thoughts, and try again once the storm passes.

We are forgetting that many ideas shared by members of this forum is not what the regular crypto user thinks. The average person isn't going to run their own node, stay clear of centralized exchanges, never submit KYC, or worry too much about privacy-invasive software and services. I don't think they will see the dangers in sharing their seeds with multiple online partners either if you package it and sell it to them in a nice wrapping.

Ledger will probably lose a percentage of their current userbase because people have found out their hardware wallets aren't as safe as they trusted Ledger they would be. In the long run, they might make up for it with new users, like the millions of mothers Roll Eyes

looking to purchase hardware wallets where there is a system in place to correct their mistakes.

Abiky

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Quote from: Synchronice on June 04, 2023, 10:06:36 AM

The real deal-breaker isn't whether wallet is open-source or not (at least for me) but the clear vision of the company that builds that wallet. Ledger is a company with very cynical attitude towards their own customers and they are very money-oriented instead of being a privacy-oriented company.
At some point, the same applies to Trezor. While they are open-source, it doesn't mean their wallet is secure because their devices suffer from unfixable seed extraction vulnerabilities and at the same time, the problem lies within company too. This company is very pro-government, has partnered with Wasabi and Blockchain Analysis companies.

...

Most companies side with the government out of fear from getting their business shut down in an instant. They also do it because of the money. I'd trust a wallet that's made by a non-profit organization or a single person (but open source), than a closed source wallet made by a company with shady practices. I'm not saying that closed source is bad, but rather risky since you won't be able to know the inner workings of your wallet.

With open source code, anyone can fix issues/vulnerabilities and make the wallet stronger. Just like how it's the case with Bitcoin today. I'd steer clear from any Ledger products, and choose an open source alternative instead. Who knows if the company's days are numbered? Just my thoughts Grin

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Quote from: taufik123 on June 04, 2023, 10:20:27 AM

Ledger is sacrificing the privacy of all users with updates that no one really needs.
A clear vision and mission for open-source wallets will be a sign of how they will be in the future.

The privacy is the smaller of two big problems that Ledger is creating. The second one is the security. You are not only sharing your KYC data with some companies and organizations in the UK, USA, and France, you are sharing shards of your seed as well.

Quote from: taufik123 on June 04, 2023, 10:20:27 AM

As for the vulnerability of their devices, it can probably still be fixed with some further development.

That's the thing, it can't. Their hardware vulnerabilities are unfixable for the Model One and Model T.

Quote from: summonerrk on June 04, 2023, 12:48:25 PM

The Ledger cannot be compromised if, after the update, you did not click "YES" when the question appeared there - "Whether to add a recovery function".
If you clicked NO, then the Ledger remains in the previous state. Without the possibility of remote recovery by other people.

In theory, it's you who has to agree with sharding and sharing your seed. In reality, no one knows. It's a matter of trust and this time it's too dangerous.

Quote from: Marvell1 on June 05, 2023, 05:50:02 AM

I understand the solution you are suggesting. But how and how can we assemble a hardware wallet for ourselves? How is it that an ordinary person like me, who knows nothing about hardware engineering or basic assembly techniques, can do it on my own?

Don't do it yourself if you are not comfortable with it. Building your own HW and signing devices is for the more advanced users. You can always opt for an airgapped solution if you have a spare desktop device somewhere.

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Quote from: Marvell1 on June 05, 2023, 05:50:02 AM

Certainly, the government will not stop with Ledger, they will continue to attack other hardware wallet companies is inevitable. I understand the solution you are suggesting. But how and how can we assemble a hardware wallet for ourselves? How is it that an ordinary person like me, who knows nothing about hardware engineering or basic assembly techniques, can do it on my own?

I am also struggling to find another solution because I know that it is only a matter of time before hardware wallets are controlled by the government. I am also considering using a separate computer or smartphone with the Electrum wallet installed and dedicated to storage only. I don't know if it is more secure than a hardware wallet?

There are hardware wallets that are designed to be completely air-gapped and employ technology which eliminates any possibility of online connectivity. Transactions are signed exclusively through SD cards or QR code scanning, leaving no room for private keys or seed phrases to be exposed. With these security measures in place, governments have no means to compromise the security of your assets stored within such wallets. Oh, and don't forget to ensure that the wallet software is open source, thoroughly tested, and verified, and I think you're pretty safe.

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Quote from: usekevin on June 04, 2023, 02:10:53 PM

Quote from: Onset on June 03, 2023, 01:15:43 AM

After all, I think we’ll all reach one conclusion: the best storage is cold storage by using older hardware (eg. an old laptop). Keep that thing offline and use Electrum, there’s nothing else you’ll ever need, man.

I’m so tired and sick of their BS. All these companies are obviously targets and some of them will kneel to the government. Just.. DIY a great cold storage and roll with it.

It’s better to hold the bitcoin in the cold storage as compared to the normal wallet.From 2016,huge bitcoin wallet was hacked by many people.Even some of my friends had loss some bitcoin.One of my friend had lost his 9 Bitcoin,which he received from his uncle as the birthday gift.It’s good enough to gift some bitcoin to your younger people.It will bring the young people to bitcoin at the earliest period is good one.After the decade,the young people of our generation will have a use of bitcoin.So it’s better one to allow the young people to know more about cryptocurrency and specially bitcoin into life settlement.

Kho lạnh như ví phần cứng Ledger? Will it be safe until they notify you that they are storing your seed phrase on their server? As some have said here, the reality is that hardware wallet companies will soon be interfered with by the government, they will no longer be safe for us. We should find a better solution. But at the moment, we don't have any solution and choose open source hardware wallet as the only option until they announce that they have also been visited by the government.

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Quote from: m2017 on June 04, 2023, 08:42:10 AM

Quote from: Marvell1 on June 04, 2023, 07:53:16 AM

Quote from: Abiky on June 04, 2023, 03:06:58 AM

Quote from: ilovealtcoins on June 02, 2023, 06:54:18 PM

Some are using trezor and they say it is open source and cheaper than Ledger. In my opinion, I don't think anything is 100% secure, and Ledger is an example. We trusted them for years until they announced their damn service. The best way is that you divide your assets into parts and store them in different wallets, I think only then will our assets be more secure.

I think Ledger sold itself to the government. They were pushed to comply with KYC through their own little service. But the community is not stupid. Most hardcore crypto users will now abandon Ledger products because of this. It's a pity because I've thought the company stood for crypto's original values. With open source hardware wallets, you don't need to trust the company other than to verify the code if everything is secure. Who knows if these alternatives ultimately beat Ledger in the long run?

It can be said that what Ledger did has disappointed many people. But we need to realize one thing, all these hardware wallet companies are in business, and they are regulated by the government. If the government cannot control the bitcoin network, then of course, they will target exchanges, hardware wallet companies, or all the companies that provide bitcoin related services to control bitcoin indirectly. I also fear that other hardware wallet companies like Trezor will be unable to avoid government pursuit. They won't stop until they reach their goal. So I have more worries in the future, we should find another solution instead of like before, always thinking that hardware wallet is the safest.

A HW device can remain safe if it is not assembled / created by the hands of such companies as Ledger or Trezor. I am inclined to believe that sooner or later any manufacturer of hardware wallets may come under pressure from states, and even ideological companies (supporters of the ideas of the cryptocommunity) will be forced to surrender. Therefore, I believe that the safest HW wallet will be the device that you assemble with your own hands. The BTC-community needs to look in this direction and develop such an opportunity, when even an ordinary user without special technical skills can assemble such a device as a designer. Assembled the physical part, installed the firmware, connected it to electrum and use it.

Decentralized hardware wallets must also be decentralized, otherwise all this decentralization becomes meaningless. Bitcoin in your wallet should not depend on ~~HW manufacturers~~ anyone.

Certainly, the government will not stop with Ledger, they will continue to attack other hardware wallet companies is inevitable. I understand the solution you are suggesting. But how and how can we assemble a hardware wallet for ourselves? How is it that an ordinary person like me, who knows nothing about hardware engineering or basic assembly techniques, can do it on my own?

I am also struggling to find another solution because I know that it is only a matter of time before hardware wallets are controlled by the government. I am also considering using a separate computer or smartphone with the Electrum wallet installed and dedicated to storage only. I don't know if it is more secure than a hardware wallet?

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Quote from: Onset on June 03, 2023, 01:15:43 AM

After all, I think we’ll all reach one conclusion: the best storage is cold storage by using older hardware (eg. an old laptop). Keep that thing offline and use Electrum, there’s nothing else you’ll ever need, man.

I’m so tired and sick of their BS. All these companies are obviously targets and some of them will kneel to the government. Just.. DIY a great cold storage and roll with it.

It’s better to hold the bitcoin in the cold storage as compared to the normal wallet.From 2016,huge bitcoin wallet was hacked by many people.Even some of my friends had loss some bitcoin.One of my friend had lost his 9 Bitcoin,which he received from his uncle as the birthday gift.It’s good enough to gift some bitcoin to your younger people.It will bring the young people to bitcoin at the earliest period is good one.After the decade,the young people of our generation will have a use of bitcoin.So it’s better one to allow the young people to know more about cryptocurrency and specially bitcoin into life settlement.

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Quote from: Abiky on May 31, 2023, 11:25:12 AM

Does anyone know of any good hardware wallets that are open source? I've been using a Ledger Nano for years but not being open source is a deal breaker for me. With the Ledger Recover feature meant to help restore people's private keys/seeds by complying with KYC, the hardware wallet could be compromised as we know it. If it's not open source, it cannot be trusted.

Any suggestions and/or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Wait.
The Ledger cannot be compromised if, after the update, you did not click "YES" when the question appeared there - "Whether to add a recovery function".
If you clicked NO, then the Ledger remains in the previous state. Without the possibility of remote recovery by other people.
Closed code is bad, but on the other hand, attackers do not know exactly how the wallet works.
That's why the Trust Wallet closed its source code, and now its code is also closed. But Electrum has an open source code. But I only believe Ledger.

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Quote from: BitMaxz on May 31, 2023, 11:42:44 AM

That's the bad part of using Ledger Nano they don't have open-source code for their hardware wallets and we do not know what's behind the program of their device.

Why not use Trezor instead which is open-source I do not know if it's the best one but Trezor is already a popular wallet that supports multiple cryptocurrencies.

Or if you just want to store Bitcoin only then a Cold card might be optional.

Even if it has served well for many years, it does not make some people trust them. I'm neutral on this, but I agree with what you're saying. When it's not open source, we can't fully control it. This pushes us to different thoughts. As an alternative, many things have been said.

Although I think so, I still use it. I hope the things we fear do not happen to us.

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Binance Exchange CEO was right all along when he said that the biggest problem of crypto is the wallets we use to store our favourite coins, he believes that the security of those crypto wallets are not that secured like we think, and I felt scared because it's coming from someone who know about crypto wallet very well and also the founder of Trust wallet.

Ledger and Atomic wallet are not the latest example of why crypto wallet securities are one of the biggest issues we have in crypto space, do you think this is making sense? Or you disagree? Now Trezor look like the only option left for hardware wallet users.

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Quote from: Synchronice on June 04, 2023, 10:06:36 AM

The real deal-breaker isn't whether wallet is open-source or not (at least for me) but the clear vision of the company that builds that wallet. Ledger is a company with very cynical attitude towards their own customers and they are very money-oriented instead of being a privacy-oriented company.

and they are not consistent with what they said at the beginning. Ledger is sacrificing the privacy of all users with updates that no one really needs.
A clear vision and mission for open-source wallets will be a sign of how they will be in the future.
But if they violate their own mission statement, you can be sure they don't deserve any place with their customers.

Quote from: Synchronice on June 04, 2023, 10:06:36 AM

At some point, the same applies to Trezor. While they are open-source, it doesn't mean their wallet is secure because their devices suffer from unfixable seed extraction vulnerabilities and at the same time, the problem lies within company too. This company is very pro-government, has partnered with Wasabi and Blockchain Analysis companies.

Trezor is the final choice, but if they are too pro-government it is not impossible that they will eventually do the same thing as Ledger.
As for the vulnerability of their devices, it can probably still be fixed with some further development.

I don't know which Hardware wallet is the best, we can only see the development at this time.
See how Hardware Wallet Companies compete with each other, providing their latest features to embed controversial features.

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There are a few excellent open source hardware wallets available for securing your Bitcoin (BTC) holdings. One popular choice is the Trezor Model T, which features a color touchscreen and supports multiple cryptocurrencies. It is praised for its user-friendly interface and robust security measures. Another notable option is the Ledger Nano S, known for its compact design and affordability. It offers a wide range of coin support and has a strong reputation in the crypto community. Both wallets prioritize open source principles, allowing users to review and verify their software's security. Ultimately, the choice between these two wallets depends on your specific preferences and requirements.

Looks like you haven't heard about Ledger news, and you probably haven't read what OP said either, you are just replying based on the thread title. But that's okay, but it's important that you stay up to date with your news and knowledge to keep your bitcoins safe. The ledger is no longer secure, and Trezor could be everyone's next choice.

Topic: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC? - page 2. (Read 663 times)