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Topic: Best way of initial coin distribution - page 2. (Read 5230 times)

newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
February 27, 2015, 10:37:17 PM
#72
Man, they never listen. 

It ain't about PoW vs PoS.  It's about allocating all the darn coins so close to the beginning that it makes no economic sense.


Wow! One sentence.  Straight to the point.  I wish I had your skills.   Wink



You do realize chain that what cry said is against PoS right? PoS distributes coins at the very beginning to shareholders...
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
February 27, 2015, 10:34:59 PM
#71
Man, they never listen. 

It ain't about PoW vs PoS.  It's about allocating all the darn coins so close to the beginning that it makes no economic sense.


Wow! One sentence.  Straight to the point.  I wish I had your skills.   Wink

legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1132
February 27, 2015, 10:03:18 PM
#70
Man, they never listen. 

It ain't about PoW vs PoS.  It's about allocating all the darn coins so close to the beginning that it makes no economic sense.

newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
February 27, 2015, 10:00:52 PM
#69
Step 1:
    
Code:
Launch a proof of stake altcoin. For example bitcoindark clone or something
Step 2:
  
Code:
People mine that altcoin until the proof of work period is ended
Step 3:
    
Code:
People send their coins to a burn address

Step 4:
  
Code:
You send the new 100% pos coin to the addresses they send to the burn address with proportional to their coins.
    For example i send 18324 coins to the burn address using my address i get sent back same amount i burned to the same address on the new chain

Step 5:
    
Code:
People import their addresses to the new chains wallet and rescan
Step 6:
    
Code:
You have achieved your goal

Source: This is how the Stakecoin distribution was and i got my coins and was worked good i am like it because it was like magic and stuff.

This approach works better if the coin being mined is multi-algo. 4 Algos would make it very fair, scrypt, sha256, x11(or a different GPU algo), and a CPU algo that no one has a GPU miner for.

PoW period should not end as a snapshot can be taken at any point and the new coin allocated based on those numbers. The coins don't need to be burned either.

Mining isn't really a fair way of distributing anything.  CfB's method of mining via MS is a bit better because there is only so much damage that unfair mining advantages can do on the NXT system in 24 hours over 1000 coins.  But even mining on MS as long as it is open to anyone will still get gamed.  

It makes me wonder what is going on at NXT, that it came up with such a great answer to POW but implemented it so poorly and now has brought POW back into NXT.  One right step forward and two wrong steps back.  

Hey buddy, don't be stupid. Mining is much more Utopian way of distributing coins that Staking. PoS truly is what some people refer to as "Piece of Shit" because of it's lack of secuity vs PoW and it's idiotic method of distributing coins.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
February 27, 2015, 09:28:55 PM
#68
Step 1:
    
Code:
Launch a proof of stake altcoin. For example bitcoindark clone or something
Step 2:
  
Code:
People mine that altcoin until the proof of work period is ended
Step 3:
    
Code:
People send their coins to a burn address

Step 4:
  
Code:
You send the new 100% pos coin to the addresses they send to the burn address with proportional to their coins.
    For example i send 18324 coins to the burn address using my address i get sent back same amount i burned to the same address on the new chain

Step 5:
    
Code:
People import their addresses to the new chains wallet and rescan
Step 6:
    
Code:
You have achieved your goal

Source: This is how the Stakecoin distribution was and i got my coins and was worked good i am like it because it was like magic and stuff.

This approach works better if the coin being mined is multi-algo. 4 Algos would make it very fair, scrypt, sha256, x11(or a different GPU algo), and a CPU algo that no one has a GPU miner for.

PoW period should not end as a snapshot can be taken at any point and the new coin allocated based on those numbers. The coins don't need to be burned either.

Mining isn't really a fair way of distributing anything.  CfB's method of mining via MS is a bit better because there is only so much damage that unfair mining advantages can do on the NXT system in 24 hours over 1000 coins.  But even mining on MS as long as it is open to anyone will still get gamed. 

It makes me wonder what is going on at NXT, that it came up with such a great answer to POW but implemented it so poorly and now has brought POW back into NXT.  One right step forward and two wrong steps back. 
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
February 27, 2015, 09:19:26 PM
#67
Sure, put the file on Mega and anybody that wants to confirm can download the file and make sure that the hash checks.  

I'm talking about a cryptographic proof. Your suggestion doesn't correspond to the definition of "cryptographic proof".

Look, having cryptographic proof that there were 1000 accounts doesn't mean anything if you can't prove that those 1000 different accounts weren't sock puppets. 

If you go and open your next play project for anybody and everybody, you will still get accused of only having 20 real people, each with 5-100 socks each.  Why?  Because cryptographic proof doesn't solve the sock puppet problem at all.   

You are about to make the exact same mistake. 

Cryptographic proof is really nice in combination with some other method of verification on sock-puppet identity.  At least NEM finger-printed computers that registered tokens and weeded out lots of suck puppets.  Your not doing anything even close to that. 

You could go to a big Bitcoin conference.  You could have little business cards and each one has instructions on how to set up a NXT account and an account on MS, and each card has a unique token or ID on it.  You can pass out these cards to real people at the conference.  For each card you hand out, you accept one business card from the other person, on the back of the business card they gave you, you write the corresponding NXT MS instruction card ID number.   Now you have cryptographic proof combined with proof of business card. 

There are of course other ways.  You could create a facebook page called JINN, you could accept likes and they must become your friend, you would make your friends list open to the public and you would try to look at each Facebook profile to see if it was a sockpuppet.  There are varying different ways to do this.  For instance if you have 500 out of your 1000 are accounts from Nigeria, then you can know they are sock puppets.  There are much more complex methods of sock-puppet removal too via Facebook.  You could set the requirements quite high for Facebook activity.  Because again, that proved that people made those worked to make those accounts, and furthermore you can profile each account. 

You could use the BTT method I suggested. 

The point is cryptographic proof doesn't solve the real problem.  The real reason you want a wide distribution is to say it was "fair" and not gamed by 20 or fewer whales.  Just giving cryptographic proof via MS doesn't do much for you there.  You open up your MS to the world to mine JINN and you will have 20 people with 90%.  You might as well just ask people to send you a bitcoin for a share of the new project. 


(Yes, of course this isn't for "JINN" but that was just an example)
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1005
My mule don't like people laughing
February 27, 2015, 08:46:43 AM
#66
Step 1:
    
Code:
Launch a proof of stake altcoin. For example bitcoindark clone or something
Step 2:
  
Code:
People mine that altcoin until the proof of work period is ended
Step 3:
    
Code:
People send their coins to a burn address

Step 4:
  
Code:
You send the new 100% pos coin to the addresses they send to the burn address with proportional to their coins.
    For example i send 18324 coins to the burn address using my address i get sent back same amount i burned to the same address on the new chain

Step 5:
    
Code:
People import their addresses to the new chains wallet and rescan
Step 6:
    
Code:
You have achieved your goal

Source: This is how the Stakecoin distribution was and i got my coins and was worked good i am like it because it was like magic and stuff.

This approach works better if the coin being mined is multi-algo. 4 Algos would make it very fair, scrypt, sha256, x11(or a different GPU algo), and a CPU algo that no one has a GPU miner for.

PoW period should not end as a snapshot can be taken at any point and the new coin allocated based on those numbers. The coins don't need to be burned either.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
February 26, 2015, 05:41:41 PM
#65
Wheres the trust weakness with that for the application you require?

I'm building a trust-free system.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 504
February 26, 2015, 05:40:16 PM
#64

Wheres the trust weakness with that for the application you require?
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 504
February 26, 2015, 02:02:00 PM
#59
No, I am right.

Ok. But I need a cryptographic proof. Distribution based on records of a website that can change its internal records can't be proved.

http://virtual-notary.org/dispatch/webpage/input/
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
February 26, 2015, 12:25:01 PM
#58
can you elaborate on why 1000 is max?  if all you need is 1000 users then maybe a lotto is the best

I like round numbers.
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
February 26, 2015, 12:13:11 PM
#57
I was thinking that what you really want is as LARGE an initial user base as possible.

I don't need too many users. 1000 is max.

can you elaborate on why 1000 is max?  if all you need is 1000 users then maybe a lotto is the best
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
February 26, 2015, 09:31:03 AM
#56
Sure, put the file on Mega and anybody that wants to confirm can download the file and make sure that the hash checks.  

I'm talking about a cryptographic proof. Your suggestion doesn't correspond to the definition of "cryptographic proof".
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
February 26, 2015, 09:24:33 AM
#55
Snapshot it. Hash it. And put the hash in your chain. 

Something must confirm that the hash is valid.

Sure, put the file on Mega and anybody that wants to confirm can download the file and make sure that the hash checks. 
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
February 26, 2015, 08:14:14 AM
#54
Snapshot it. Hash it. And put the hash in your chain. 

Something must confirm that the hash is valid.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
February 26, 2015, 08:10:46 AM
#53
You can snapshot BTT right now and used the snapshot, not some future changed version.

How to prove that the snapshot is real? What if one of the chosen ones deletes all his posts on BTT after the distribution?

Snapshot it. Hash it. And put the hash in your chain. 
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