Topic: Best way to store bitcoins safely without a hardware wallet(ledger,etc) - page 2. (Read 681 times)

You can install Electrum, Bitcoin-qt, or another else in your computer or laptop, but don't connect it to the internet if you don't want to use to synchronize with the network.
You can use the other computer or laptop to browse the internet so between your wallet, and the other computer doesn't have any connection.
But it is okay if you install the wallet on the computer which you use to browse the internet.
If you have more money, it will better if you buy a hardware wallet to store your bitcoin, and you can also store your altcoin in the same wallet.

Well, don't lose your device. And you should have a backup.

But the important question (which you didn't answer yet) is how often you want to send BTC.
If it is quite often, you need some form of watch-only wallet to create unsigned transactions.

And here is the difficulty. You need to make sure that you are not leaking any information (i.e. that you install / use that wallet) to your ISP (or who are you trying to hide it from?).

If you don't trust your ISP -> Use a VPN and Tor. (This btw is one of the rare cases where a VPN actually is useful; If you trust your ISP, do NOT use a VPN).
And do not use winodws. Use linux and encrypt your installation. This is important.

Is the problem related to the difficulty of buying because it is illegal or economically?

Economically: buy a USB flash drive, burn an open source operating system on it, and boot from that operating system.
Do not install the parts that require internet connectivity, and remove the physical parts.

illegal : Buy an embedded device that enables you to run an operating system with the lowest possible specifications.

Shopping List:  A form of sheet metal, (galvanised steel etc) an engraver a pencil and ruler and an hour or so.  

Transfer your coins to a paper wallet that you have rolled offline, engrave the private key onto the sheet metal (store in a safe place until needed).  Destroy the paper wallet once you have verified what you engraved is what you intended to have engraved.

(If you know what you are doing you can also acid etch the QR code onto metal (without the clear text) to mask what it is).

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Another one I've read is create a three of four or even four of five etc wallets with the various priv keys stored as above in different locations, one or two can even be brain wallets if you're super paranoid about security and don't care what happens to the coins if anything untoward happens to you.

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Another one I'm investigating is time locked TX which I haven't managed to get working properly as yet, so I can't recommend it.

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I'd hardly call a gimmick silver coin with a sticker over a QR code a secure method of storage. 

In any event, any of the coins that have been "slabbed" with the sticker still intact you would have no way of knowing whether or not the sticker was peeled off, the details transcribed and then carefully replaced immediately prior to encapsulation.  (We'll know for certain one day into the future if someone decides to cash in the funds)

If assuming(that's a BIG if) that your offline device is actually secure, and your private keys aren't possibly leaked one way or another along the process, then you're probably not going to have problems.

It's just that it wouldn't be feasible to spend send out the coins from time to time if you're still planning on making transactions in the future. If purely for long term storage though, just generate a wallet on an offline device(probably on Electrum). Write down the backup phrase. And take note of some addresses so you can add to your stack.

Here's a decent guide on air-gapped devices created by Sowik in 2018: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/guide-secure-air-gapped-crypto-wallet-storage-method-2828437

and yes, it can be tricky if you aren't really technologically literate. Hence why most people are pushing people to use hardware wallets instead.

What could go wrong with having a offline device to store your wallet on? Any risks I should be worried about?

Lately this is how I am doing all the things to protect my privacy (in my territory there are no problems with bitcoin by the way):

I have offline device where my wallet is. I have the watch only wallet and it's using tor connection. Whenever I need to send coin - I simply sign the tx from my offline device and broadcast it from the watch wallet. There are no issue with privacy now, at least for me.

Every wallet does so, yes.
But if bitcoin is illegal in your country, you probably don't want to use a wallet which leaks any possible information about you.

The question is, how often do you plan on using BTC?
If it is just for storage and accumulation, then go with an encrypted paper wallet.

If you need to transact often, use a privacy-orientated wallet. Either something like samourai for android or wasabi for a desktop system.
Do not use windows. Do not go online with your wallet device.

No, it's "illegal" here so no I can't buy a ledger/trezor, so that option is unavailable for me at the moment. I heard many people are using a offline storage for the long term holding though..








What about Electrum? They do have a backup seed when you create a wallet no?

Maybe he lives in a part of the world where $50-100 just for a hardware wallet is considered a huge amount of money and the amount he plans on storing there doesn't even cover the costs of purchasing one. Who knows.
Unless you have an old laptop somewhere that you can use as cold storage as some users already suggested, you are left with the option of creating a paper wallet where you can send your Bitcoin. Electrum would be the software wallet I can suggest you.

Seriously man, while this might not be the answer you're looking for, a Ledger Nano S[1] is around $70 and a Trezor One[2] is around $55. If you don't know for sure how you're going to secure your coins yourself on an air-gapped device, don't complicate things and just invest $50-70 on a hardware wallet. If you don't know what you're doing, there are just so much steps in the creation of an air-gapped device that you could potentially mess up and put your funds at risk.

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[1] https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-nano-s
[2] https://shop.trezor.io/product/trezor-one-white

the correct name is "Casascius" and it is not offline storage, it is a physical bitcoin and this type is not exactly meant to be used for storage. they are designed to be used as "collectibles" for those who like having collections such as hobbyist, etc.
they also are meant to have a fixed balance (the balance that was originally put in that key) and remain that way meaning you should never spend from that key (which requires physically revealing the private key) because it makes stop being a collectible.

Why would you not have a hardware wallet ?

You could look at an opendime as a storage media but then you need a safe way to "spend" the coins.
Opendime donb't have backup, so if you lose it, you lose your bitcoins.

Same goes for all offline storage (casacius for example).

Just get a nano S and be on the safe side.

it depends on the update. for example there are times when a bug is found in the wallet software that requires upgrading both online and offline versions. but most of the times, specially for older wallets, the upgrade is not so necessary but not always. for example you can be sure that the new Electrum version (4.0) will have a lot of updates follow its stable release.

so i'd say user has to always be aware of what is changing in each wallet. usually projects have a changelog, maybe a mailing list,... that they can subscribe to.

If you are buying a new laptop, why don't you buy a Ledger Nano S? It is cheaper than a new laptop.

Once you install the wallet in your laptop it cannot EVER be online again.

Unless you have an old laptop to spare, and you are really a tech guy who want to spend countless hours studiying bitcoin and security, there is no reason in doing this way. just buy a ledger nano S. It is cheap and safer.

The above is right and there's another term for an offline wallet which is called cold storage.
I recommend the Electrum wallet if you are going to follow the suggestion above.

You can follow the complete guide on how to make Electrum cold storage you can find it from the link below.
- https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html?highlight=usb

Then you can use https://coinb.in/#newSegWit to make a raw transaction and save it to notepad and save it to USB flash drive to transfer the copy of the raw transaction to your offline Electrum wallet to make a signed transaction.


You don't need to worry about the software updates it will work without any issues based on my experienced.

Yes you can download it and turn off the internet completely or you can download the Electrum installer from other PC and transfer it using USB flash drive.

Assuming I’m gone need to buy a brand new laptop, which wallet do you recommend using? And what about the software updates? After I download a wallet on the laptop cut off all internet going in the laptop?

Use an offline wallet. Never let this device to go online.

Whenever you will need to broadcast a tx:
- Take the master public key, create a watch only wallet using this master public key in a device which is online.
- Create the tx and save it
- Take the saved file in the offline system and load it.
- Sign it and save it.
- Take the signed file in the online system.
Load it and then broadcast it.

You are not going online with your original wallet ever.

Hey,


What's the best way to store bitcoins safely without a ledger/other hardware wallets?

Thanks