BetKing.io - 20% Rakeback Christmas Bonus - Most trusted Bitcoin Dice site - page 48.

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: BetKing.io on July 05, 2016, 06:59:24 AM

I sent dooglus a signed message from Betking cold storage addresses that he can verify and prove solvency.

I received a signature for a message that said:
'this is a betking cold storage address'

The address which was used to create the signature contains a little over 4500 BTC.

Dean tells me there's ~100 BTC in the hot wallet too.

So that's a proof of assets. For real proof of solvency we would also need to see a proof of liabilities (ie. investment amounts) to make sure that liabilities don't exceed assets. The danger is that there are 10 investors each having invested around 1000 BTC, so the total liabilities are over 10k. I'm not suggesting that this is the case, merely that it is possible if each investor doesn't have a way of making sure his coins are counted in the claimed total.

coingamblingreviews

legendary

Activity: 1043

Merit: 1032

★Bitcoin Gambling Reviews★

Quote from: BetKing.io on July 04, 2016, 10:36:52 AM

Quote from: coingamblingreviews on July 04, 2016, 08:38:18 AM

Just to confirm the bankroll investment does that still just cover the dice games? If so is it all the dice games?

Also the site total investment at about 4649 ฿ is that current bankroll size? or where is the total current bankroll information?

Investment is at 4648 Bitcoin at the moment and that covers both "classic" dice and "social" dice as well as roulette.
Slots and blackjack are privately funded.

Ok thanks for the response.

*Edit - math's works out perfect, my mistake..

BetKing.io

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1021

Few improvements to the social dice game.
Bets show up in my bets tab.
Reels rezise properly on smaller screens/windows.
Bets show up in high roller list.
You can post a round id in chat by doing r:roundid

Investment help page updated to show that Social Dice is investor funded.

Jackpots currently sitting at over 2 Bitcoin and 0.3 Bitcoin.

Let me know if you have any ideas you would like to see.

BetKing.io

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1021

I sent dooglus a signed message from Betking cold storage addresses that he can verify and prove solvency.

BetKing.io

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1021

Quote from: wormat22 on July 04, 2016, 05:18:36 PM

Quote from: BetKing.io on July 04, 2016, 04:03:54 AM

Quote from: wormat22 on July 03, 2016, 11:24:35 PM

What is your share of the jackpot based on?

A percentage of the wagered amount each Social Dice round goes towards each of the jackpots

Yes, but if someone hits the jackpot, what determines how much each player gets from the pot?

This page gives you the details of the jackpot https://betking.io/help/socialdice

wormat22

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: BetKing.io on July 04, 2016, 04:03:54 AM

Quote from: wormat22 on July 03, 2016, 11:24:35 PM

What is your share of the jackpot based on?

A percentage of the wagered amount each Social Dice round goes towards each of the jackpots

Yes, but if someone hits the jackpot, what determines how much each player gets from the pot?

BetKing.io

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1021

Quote from: dooglus on July 04, 2016, 04:04:12 PM

Quote from: BetKing.io on July 04, 2016, 02:06:36 PM

Good point. Do you know of a way to make the multiplayer aspect provably fair as well ass the jackpot?
It's something I've wondered about some other sites where it looks like they could easily just win their own jackpots.

I don't know of a good way to do it, no.

The problem is that since the site can immediately know whether the jackpot has been hit or not, why wouldn't it be able to also know immediately before it happens, and therefore make sure to win at least part of it?

The jackpot is effectively a multi-player lottery game, and the only real solution I've seen to such a game is pevpot.com's. That was a weekly lottery where the seed was the hash of a particular future Bitcoin block, and the derivation function (turning the seed into a winning ticket number) took about 20 minutes to run. The 20 minute delay was intended to make it unprofitable for any miner to attempt to rig the result by withholding a mined block which made them lose (since by the time they figure out their block makes them lose it has already been orphaned).

That method is no use for a dice sice where you get more than one bet per second. You'd have to run the CPU-intensive derivation function for every roll, creating huge load on the server.

In that case I think the alternative of not having one is worse than providing a jackpot that is not provably fair.

The difference with the way I'm doing it is that I am adding a share of my own investment commission to the pot and not a players side bet.
It would be a lot worse to take bets from players to put in a pot then win that I think.

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: BetKing.io on July 04, 2016, 02:06:36 PM

Good point. Do you know of a way to make the multiplayer aspect provably fair as well ass the jackpot?
It's something I've wondered about some other sites where it looks like they could easily just win their own jackpots.

I don't know of a good way to do it, no.

The problem is that since the site can immediately know whether the jackpot has been hit or not, why wouldn't it be able to also know immediately before it happens, and therefore make sure to win at least part of it?

The jackpot is effectively a multi-player lottery game, and the only real solution I've seen to such a game is pevpot.com's. That was a weekly lottery where the seed was the hash of a particular future Bitcoin block, and the derivation function (turning the seed into a winning ticket number) took about 20 minutes to run. The 20 minute delay was intended to make it unprofitable for any miner to attempt to rig the result by withholding a mined block which made them lose (since by the time they figure out their block makes them lose it has already been orphaned).

That method is no use for a dice sice where you get more than one bet per second. You'd have to run the CPU-intensive derivation function for every roll, creating huge load on the server.

BetKing.io

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1021

This help page details the jackpot payouts https://betking.io/help/socialdice

Let me know what you think and if you see anywhere it can be improved.

Social dice bets now show up on highroller tab too.

BetKing.io

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1021

Quote from: Quickseller on July 04, 2016, 12:54:46 PM

...
You are missing a chat room solely for people who are playing "social dice" as the chat feature is what will make it truly social verses a bunch of numbers being displayed on each betting outcome.

Do you mean any different to having the game and the current chat open? There's a red chat button on right side of screen that opens chat.

If you have seen that already then what benefit would there be for a dedicated chat? The current chat doesn't get much action anyway

BetKing.io

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1021

Quote from: dooglus on July 04, 2016, 12:54:02 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Bustabit uses a pretty robust provably fair system for multiplayer games, feel free to use it if you want =)

Note that even using bustabit's method the site would still know when the jackpot was due to hit and so could arrange to win it.

Previous posters were asking how the jackpot is divided when it hits. I don't think they got a good answer.

Suppose two people are playing when the jackpot hits. One betting 0.01 BTC and the other betting 0.99 BTC. Do they get half the jackpot each? Is it split proportionally to the size of their bets? Or something else?

What if only one player is playing and their bet is tiny? Do they still get the whole jackpot amount?

Good point. Do you know of a way to make the multiplayer aspect provably fair as well ass the jackpot?
It's something I've wondered about some other sites where it looks like they could easily just win their own jackpots.

The jackpot is split proportionally based on bet size.

I'm in middle of finishing off a help page for the game which will detail that.

Quickseller

copper member

Activity: 2996

Merit: 2374

Quote from: BetKing.io on July 04, 2016, 12:19:22 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on July 04, 2016, 12:16:31 PM

Quote from: BetKing.io on July 04, 2016, 12:00:47 PM

Here's the provably fair help page updated to show social dice method

https://betking.io/help/provablyfair

Quote

Social Dice

The social dice game uses the same provably fair method to calculate rolls. The difference being that there is no nonce and a new server seed is generated every round.

The client seed is initially set to a random string but once there is betting on a round the client seed will be set to the first four unique players user id's.

For example if three players with user Id's 34, 6783, 7872 were playing then the client seed used would be 3467837872.

I am no expert in provably fairness, but I am not sure this is really provably fair.

Wouldn't it be possible for the a casino operator to generate new user accounts that could make the client seed to be something that is favorable to the casino operator? For example if one whale was the first to bet, then the casino operator could have the second, third and fourth user ID's be something that would result in the whale to lose his bet. The same is true if three people place certain bets, and the fourth is placed by the casino operator.

I think some of the "social" type games have every round predetermined based on a single server/client seed, so the outcome is known to the operator well in advance, and can be verified that the roll outcome did not change from the time prior to a player placing his bet to after him placing his bet.

Hi

Yeah RHarver pointed that out just now. I never thought of that situation.
I was trying to make it fair by using multiple peoples client seeds instead of choosing one person or generating one myself (as I could favor lo rolls in that case) but yeah that means I technically could jump in as player 4.

I will change this method asap to something more like Bustabit so that it is truly fair.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Yea I had loaded this thread before he had posted that.

I do like the idea of many players betting on the outcome of a single roll though. You are missing a chat room solely for people who are playing "social dice" as the chat feature is what will make it truly social verses a bunch of numbers being displayed on each betting outcome.

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: ?? on ??

Bustabit uses a pretty robust provably fair system for multiplayer games, feel free to use it if you want =)

Note that even using bustabit's method the site would still know when the jackpot was due to hit and so could arrange to win it.

Previous posters were asking how the jackpot is divided when it hits. I don't think they got a good answer.

Suppose two people are playing when the jackpot hits. One betting 0.01 BTC and the other betting 0.99 BTC. Do they get half the jackpot each? Is it split proportionally to the size of their bets? Or something else?

What if only one player is playing and their bet is tiny? Do they still get the whole jackpot amount?

inoes

sr. member

Activity: 1316

Merit: 254

United Crowd

long time im not online on there,
but where point rewards for wager?
i seen for first regist on there betking have point rewards for wagered play ,

BetKing.io

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1021

In the mean time while I write the code suggested by RHarver I've changed it so the server seed hash is at least visible on the betting panel.
You can double click to select it.

BetKing.io

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1021

Quote from: Quickseller on July 04, 2016, 12:16:31 PM

Quote from: BetKing.io on July 04, 2016, 12:00:47 PM

Here's the provably fair help page updated to show social dice method

https://betking.io/help/provablyfair

Quote

Social Dice

The social dice game uses the same provably fair method to calculate rolls. The difference being that there is no nonce and a new server seed is generated every round.

The client seed is initially set to a random string but once there is betting on a round the client seed will be set to the first four unique players user id's.

For example if three players with user Id's 34, 6783, 7872 were playing then the client seed used would be 3467837872.

I am no expert in provably fairness, but I am not sure this is really provably fair.

Wouldn't it be possible for the a casino operator to generate new user accounts that could make the client seed to be something that is favorable to the casino operator? For example if one whale was the first to bet, then the casino operator could have the second, third and fourth user ID's be something that would result in the whale to lose his bet. The same is true if three people place certain bets, and the fourth is placed by the casino operator.

I think some of the "social" type games have every round predetermined based on a single server/client seed, so the outcome is known to the operator well in advance, and can be verified that the roll outcome did not change from the time prior to a player placing his bet to after him placing his bet.

Hi

Yeah RHarver pointed that out just now. I never thought of that situation.
I was trying to make it fair by using multiple peoples client seeds instead of choosing one person or generating one myself (as I could favor lo rolls in that case) but yeah that means I technically could jump in as player 4.

I will change this method asap to something more like Bustabit so that it is truly fair.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Quickseller

copper member

Activity: 2996

Merit: 2374

Quote from: BetKing.io on July 04, 2016, 12:00:47 PM

Here's the provably fair help page updated to show social dice method

https://betking.io/help/provablyfair

Quote

Social Dice

The social dice game uses the same provably fair method to calculate rolls. The difference being that there is no nonce and a new server seed is generated every round.

The client seed is initially set to a random string but once there is betting on a round the client seed will be set to the first four unique players user id's.

For example if three players with user Id's 34, 6783, 7872 were playing then the client seed used would be 3467837872.

I am no expert in provably fairness, but I am not sure this is really provably fair.

Wouldn't it be possible for the a casino operator to generate new user accounts that could make the client seed to be something that is favorable to the casino operator? For example if one whale was the first to bet, then the casino operator could have the second, third and fourth user ID's be something that would result in the whale to lose his bet. The same is true if three people place certain bets, and the fourth is placed by the casino operator.

I think some of the "social" type games have every round predetermined based on a single server/client seed, so the outcome is known to the operator well in advance, and can be verified that the roll outcome did not change from the time prior to a player placing his bet to after him placing his bet.

BetKing.io

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1021

Quote from: ?? on ??

BTW cool idea about social dice, it's definitely cool to have everyone seeing the same thing and add some context to the game. I guess the real tricky part will be having a critical mass of people playing at any time

Thanks.

Yeah critical mass like what you have is needed. Once a few tweaks are done I'll promote it a bit more.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: BetKing.io on July 04, 2016, 12:00:47 PM

Here's the provably fair help page updated to show social dice method

https://betking.io/help/provablyfair

The social dice method isn't close to provably fair, because it would mean that ever player needs to trust every player to not collude with the house. For instance if the house wanted to cheat, it could have a bot who enters the game when a whale would win (and his uid would change the client seed, and thus the outcome). The very possibility of the house to trivially cheat by definition makes it not provably fair Tongue

Bustabit uses a pretty robust provably fair system for multiplayer games, feel free to use it if you want =)

Good spot! I never actually thought of that.

I'll have a look at your method then and probably implement that.

EDIT: Just seen the thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bustabitcom-provably-fair-seeding-event-922898

I was actually discussing this style of chaining with an investor a few months ago for to use on dice. Not read your full post yet but it sounds similar.

Thanks Wink

BetKing.io

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1021

Here's the provably fair help page updated to show social dice method

https://betking.io/help/provablyfair

BetKing.io

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1021

Quote from: rambeazle on July 04, 2016, 11:13:16 AM

is the new game provably fair?

I'm going to update the provably fair page in a little bit to detail how it works.

There's an issue right now with it which will be fixed tonight.

At the moment the server seed hash is not showing during a round.
So even though the algorithm is pretty much the same provably fair method as normal dice you
can't verify properly at the moment.

This is top priority on the todo list though and hopefully will be live in next couple of hours. It was something that slipped while tweaking the final look of the design.

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