Topic: BFL ASICs - page 183. (Read 557776 times)
1-Я не троль,а дотошный и прагматичный человек..реалист.
2-Как человек проработавший длительное время в банковской структуре и не мальчиков выдающим кредит,могу вас заверить,кредит им НИКТО НЕ ДАСТ на 99.99%,даже если просить как стартап у определенных фондов,очень и очень сомнительно.
3-Откуда кстате цифры в 22 мил баксов?
2-Как человек проработавший длительное время в банковской структуре и не мальчиков выдающим кредит,могу вас заверить,кредит им НИКТО НЕ ДАСТ на 99.99%,даже если просить как стартап у определенных фондов,очень и очень сомнительно.
3-Откуда кстате цифры в 22 мил баксов?
С этим затягиванием сроков и я начинаю думать, что не выполнят свои обязательства BFL (по крайней мере полностью), раз уж в срок не уложились. Очень любопытно, как они будут обставлять "тестирование устройств перед отправкой", ведь в сущности это будет не отличимо от атаки 51%, точнее сказать 99%. Скорее всего получится, что в один из дней после очередной смены сложности на уровне нынешней, они включат сотню терахэшевых комбайнов, и эквивалентной мощности набор устройств послабее. В итоге недельная норма блоков посчитается быстрее чем за сутки, в ходе которых будет проводиться красочная видеотрансляция: презентация устройств, распитие шампанского, отправка фур забитых коробками с уже проверенными устройствами предзаказчикам. Если у кого-то и дрогнет рука алогоритм поменять в этот страшный день, он выступит явным виновным перед теми кто собственно заказал бабочки (ибо деньги в таком случае "на воздух"). К моменту распаковки и включения первых девайсов end-юзерами, будет уже новая сложность во всю красоваться. И предъявить юридически абсолютно нечего, заказали, оплатили - получите и распишитесь. Это было-бы очень альтруистично, подарить 600 килобаксов (столько нынче стоит 2016 блоков) совершенно незнакомым людям. Но заказчикам и этот вариант стоит считать оптимистичным, ведь после будет по меньшей мере полгода халявы (почти нулевые расходы на эл-во), главное чтобы чипы были выносливые.
Гэвин изменит алгоритм (ибо нехер тут...)
Царь всея биткоина То есть когда асики сделают, то, есссно, Гэвин изменит алгоритм
С чего бы?
Есть основания для таких предположений?
Что в этом такого ?
в том, что нужно критически относиться к картинкам.если бы этот проект BFL презентовали в банке/финансовом учреждении, их бы гнали сранными вениками до самого Владивостока.
но со слов "товарища" этот проект настолько интеллектуален, что тут реально только собирать бабки только за счет "ценителей".
Больше ничего сказать не могу. 
Но в случае с асиками для майнинга биткоинов думаю затраты в разы меньше, так как архитектура обкатана на фпга.
Эта пять! Наверное так и думали те, кто бфл оплачивали предзаказы.
архитектура обкатана на фпга.
Ну если архитектура обкакана, то с какого перепуга производительность асиков должна быть на несколько порядков выше ?
Интересно, как они это на 90нм собрались делать, я так понял, что это уже не "толстый" техпроцесс, а "тонкий", соответственно, "в несколько раз дешевле" не выйдет.
tycho, кажется, говорил о 5-10 млн уе в разработку на таком техпроцессе.
Я наверное зарегаюсь на форуме и задам конкретные вопросы, бо что-то меня начинает реально это все дело "интересовать".
Либо предлагаю qqqq собрать положенные мною пазлы в картинку и самому немного поразмыслить и задать такие же конкретные вопросы.
архитектура обкатана на фпга.
Ну если архитектура обкакана, то с какого перепуга производительность асиков должна быть на несколько порядков выше ? интересная и познавательная статья на хабре, получается что они не трогаю денег с пред-оплат взяли кредит в банке на 22 ляма баксов !?!
Статья действительно интересная и позволяет представить затраты на разработку высокотехнологичных микросхем.Но в случае с асиками для майнинга биткоинов думаю затраты в разы меньше, так как архитектура обкатана на фпга.
интересная и познавательная статья на хабре, получается что они не трогаю денег с пред-оплат взяли кредит в банке на 22 ляма баксов !?!
И нахрена они выложили фотографии коробок старых фпга синглов??
Видя какое рвение проявляют бабколюбу,все больше и больше считаю,что бабки это секта.
??Видя какое рвение проявляют бабколюбу,все больше и больше считаю,что бабки это секта.
Троль какого уровя 96-го ?
Quote
Guys, I am really sorry we are delayed. I wish I could convey the angst it produces over here... (Apologies for this wall of text in advance, TL;DR at the bottom.)
Let me give you a little background on myself, maybe to paint a picture of what's going on here. Before BFL existed, I worked for a large financial institution. I (and my team) kept the financial backend for some of the largest banks in the US running 24/7. It was an interesting job, but I made the environment as self-sustaining as possible, so my stress level was fairly low unless something drastic broke. I'm all about a low stress environment as a way of life. I agreed to come on board BFL because I believe in Bitcoin and also, having met with the BFL crew, I knew it would be a pretty awesome place to work. What I didn't know was how much stress is involved in pushing one of these ASICs out the door.
Keeping a multi-billion dollar financial system running is nothing compared to developing a new product for rabid fans, most of which are blindingly intelligent and sharp as razor blades. The level of intelligence in the Bitcoin community (with some notable exceptions) is far above and beyond what you see in many industries as a whole, save for possibly Gaming. Maybe this comes with the territory of being on a new frontier. Typically only the very destitute or very intelligent are at the forefront of a new frontier.
As most of you know, I was pretty big into mining before BFL and during the rise of BFL, so I understand the mindset, the desire and the stress that mining brings. I was not the largest mining farm out there, but I had a pretty considerable farm, topping out around 40 GPUs at one point.When BFL first popped up on the radar, it was pretty hard to believe what they were claiming (and it turns out, of course, that it was off by a considerable factor in terms of power)... however the fundamental offering of BFL was pretty awesome - the fastest, cheapest FPGA for Bitcoin mining available (and still is, even a year later). Coincidentally, my office was, literally, across the street from the registered address of BFL at the time.It turned out to be an apartment complex, as BFL was a start up and did not have an actual office at the time. After some back and forth, some of the BFL staff agreed to meet with me and show me some of their prototype hardware.
It was at this moment that BFL actually became a real thing and not some BS scam. I'm not saying I'm the best judge of character on the planet, but I'm pretty good at scam detection and after meeting the staff and seeing the hardware, I was cautiously optimistic that there was something special here. The night I met them, I also talked to Nassir via Skype about technical details, which lended further credence to the legitimacy. I offered (both to the Bitcoin community and to BFL) to hook up their devices directly to one of my pool servers in an isolated environment to prove that it worked and wasn't some elaborate scam. Several weeks later, we did just that, and work it did... if a bit shaky, but it was a prototype after all.
I was pretty convinced at this point, but not quite convinced enough to throw down money. Time and progress moved on and BFL showed a more finished product, this time at 80w instead of 20w and the hashrate reduced to 832 MH/s... it was convincing and I threw down $30,000 for hardware. BFL had progressed from an idea to a product in the span of a few months, and started shipping that actual product only a couple more months after that. Please stop and consider this for a moment - they were able to go from paper to a fully working product based on techniques, software and hardware that had never been done before and that was far more polished than any other of the offerings out there in the space of less than a year. This is actually pretty amazing if you think about it.
Fast forward to the summer of 2012.. I was putting in some minirigs into one of my datacenters, a large order. BFL was there, along with the customer who had purchased over $100k in minirigs and we were talking and I just happened to mention that I was getting bored with my current employment. From that idle comment, we discussed the fit of me running the production portion of BFL and after several weeks we came to an agreement and I decided to move part and parcel over to BFL. I am not a PR guy (as many of you have figured out), I am an engineer by trade and I like to make things go fast in the most efficient manner possible... be it hardware or systems (such as people on assembly lines). I'm also fulfilling the role of mining community advisor, since that is what I do/did before BFL as a large part of my free time. There are things in the mining community that are just incomprehensible to the outside world, and if you aren't deeply involved in the mining community, they are things you just would not have any clue about. I advocate inside (and outside) BFL to do the things that support the mining community, even if it means less profit or things that make the business more difficult to run.
I say all this because I am leading up to the fact that I feel your pain on the delays and I understand the anger. The things we are doing, the changes that have been made and that we are making is to the benefit of the mining community. We really thought we could get the parts out by at least the end of October, but it is just one small thing after another that kept delaying things by a day or two here a week there, until it's suddenly the middle of November. Do we know things are going to be delayed weeks in advance? No, contrary to popular belief, we don't. We are running on a razor thin schedule, and we often don't know more than a few days in advance as to what the disposition is of this part or that part or what have you. Then, when we finally have a better idea of what the delay means, we have to discuss how we want to handle it - do we find another vendor and try to fix the time line? Do we continue on and suck up the delay? Do we press the vendor and/or throw more money at them to get them to speed up? There are lots of options and sometimes it takes time to work through them, especially when that vendor or facility is on the other side of the world and it's 2AM there and we have to wait until they wake up.
Once all that's done, I am forced to come to the forums and explain the delay and it kills me a bit each time, because I know how much it sucks. We spend a large part of our day (actually more towards the evening time) trying to figure out how to speed things up and get the chips out the door. It stresses us out a great deal when things don't work out like we intend, because we want to deliver on the best timeline possible. I have more grey hair now than I have ever had in my life. I wouldn't be here preaching to the choir if I didn't believe we had the best product available, I would just keep quiet like some other vendors do and let the speculation and false information run rampant.
I have not corrected people with regards to the timelines on our chips or what we have and haven't done because a) it's not really any use, the speculation is rampant and b) we really do have a pretty unique process going on behind the scenes that would be a competitive advantage to any competitors, and that's not something we want to advertise. Some of the speculation is close, some of it is reasonable but wrong and some of it (most of it) is just plain ludicrous. For the most part, I've found the people who speak with the most authoritative voice about what's going on behind the scenes of BFL are the most ridiculous, while those that are simply making statements seem to be much more accurate.
I write this big, long winded post because I am trying to convey the fact that I understand and empathize with the frustration of delay. We are doing everything in our power to minimize the delays and we have always given a timeline that we believed was possible. I really think many people will have a nice present to put under their Christmas tree this year. Everything is coming together and we are looking very good for the middle of December sometime... the date is still a bit fluid, but as soon as I know a more firm date, I will definitely post it.
TL;DR: We apologize for the delays. We are doing everything in our power to get the ASICs out as fast as possible and every delay kills us as much as it kills you. We don't want to post about delays. We have given our honest best estimate on timelines from day one, and even though we haven't met the October deadline, we are doing everything in our power to get the chips ready to ship.
выделенное показывает, как "парни шли к успеху"...если у них фпга заняло 4 месяца (или сколько там при таких минимальных вложениях), то откуда у них туча бабла на производство микросхем по даже непонятному техпроцессу.Let me give you a little background on myself, maybe to paint a picture of what's going on here. Before BFL existed, I worked for a large financial institution. I (and my team) kept the financial backend for some of the largest banks in the US running 24/7. It was an interesting job, but I made the environment as self-sustaining as possible, so my stress level was fairly low unless something drastic broke. I'm all about a low stress environment as a way of life. I agreed to come on board BFL because I believe in Bitcoin and also, having met with the BFL crew, I knew it would be a pretty awesome place to work. What I didn't know was how much stress is involved in pushing one of these ASICs out the door.
Keeping a multi-billion dollar financial system running is nothing compared to developing a new product for rabid fans, most of which are blindingly intelligent and sharp as razor blades. The level of intelligence in the Bitcoin community (with some notable exceptions) is far above and beyond what you see in many industries as a whole, save for possibly Gaming. Maybe this comes with the territory of being on a new frontier. Typically only the very destitute or very intelligent are at the forefront of a new frontier.
As most of you know, I was pretty big into mining before BFL and during the rise of BFL, so I understand the mindset, the desire and the stress that mining brings. I was not the largest mining farm out there, but I had a pretty considerable farm, topping out around 40 GPUs at one point.When BFL first popped up on the radar, it was pretty hard to believe what they were claiming (and it turns out, of course, that it was off by a considerable factor in terms of power)... however the fundamental offering of BFL was pretty awesome - the fastest, cheapest FPGA for Bitcoin mining available (and still is, even a year later). Coincidentally, my office was, literally, across the street from the registered address of BFL at the time.It turned out to be an apartment complex, as BFL was a start up and did not have an actual office at the time. After some back and forth, some of the BFL staff agreed to meet with me and show me some of their prototype hardware.
It was at this moment that BFL actually became a real thing and not some BS scam. I'm not saying I'm the best judge of character on the planet, but I'm pretty good at scam detection and after meeting the staff and seeing the hardware, I was cautiously optimistic that there was something special here. The night I met them, I also talked to Nassir via Skype about technical details, which lended further credence to the legitimacy. I offered (both to the Bitcoin community and to BFL) to hook up their devices directly to one of my pool servers in an isolated environment to prove that it worked and wasn't some elaborate scam. Several weeks later, we did just that, and work it did... if a bit shaky, but it was a prototype after all.
I was pretty convinced at this point, but not quite convinced enough to throw down money. Time and progress moved on and BFL showed a more finished product, this time at 80w instead of 20w and the hashrate reduced to 832 MH/s... it was convincing and I threw down $30,000 for hardware. BFL had progressed from an idea to a product in the span of a few months, and started shipping that actual product only a couple more months after that. Please stop and consider this for a moment - they were able to go from paper to a fully working product based on techniques, software and hardware that had never been done before and that was far more polished than any other of the offerings out there in the space of less than a year. This is actually pretty amazing if you think about it.
Fast forward to the summer of 2012.. I was putting in some minirigs into one of my datacenters, a large order. BFL was there, along with the customer who had purchased over $100k in minirigs and we were talking and I just happened to mention that I was getting bored with my current employment. From that idle comment, we discussed the fit of me running the production portion of BFL and after several weeks we came to an agreement and I decided to move part and parcel over to BFL. I am not a PR guy (as many of you have figured out), I am an engineer by trade and I like to make things go fast in the most efficient manner possible... be it hardware or systems (such as people on assembly lines). I'm also fulfilling the role of mining community advisor, since that is what I do/did before BFL as a large part of my free time. There are things in the mining community that are just incomprehensible to the outside world, and if you aren't deeply involved in the mining community, they are things you just would not have any clue about. I advocate inside (and outside) BFL to do the things that support the mining community, even if it means less profit or things that make the business more difficult to run.
I say all this because I am leading up to the fact that I feel your pain on the delays and I understand the anger. The things we are doing, the changes that have been made and that we are making is to the benefit of the mining community. We really thought we could get the parts out by at least the end of October, but it is just one small thing after another that kept delaying things by a day or two here a week there, until it's suddenly the middle of November. Do we know things are going to be delayed weeks in advance? No, contrary to popular belief, we don't. We are running on a razor thin schedule, and we often don't know more than a few days in advance as to what the disposition is of this part or that part or what have you. Then, when we finally have a better idea of what the delay means, we have to discuss how we want to handle it - do we find another vendor and try to fix the time line? Do we continue on and suck up the delay? Do we press the vendor and/or throw more money at them to get them to speed up? There are lots of options and sometimes it takes time to work through them, especially when that vendor or facility is on the other side of the world and it's 2AM there and we have to wait until they wake up.
Once all that's done, I am forced to come to the forums and explain the delay and it kills me a bit each time, because I know how much it sucks. We spend a large part of our day (actually more towards the evening time) trying to figure out how to speed things up and get the chips out the door. It stresses us out a great deal when things don't work out like we intend, because we want to deliver on the best timeline possible. I have more grey hair now than I have ever had in my life. I wouldn't be here preaching to the choir if I didn't believe we had the best product available, I would just keep quiet like some other vendors do and let the speculation and false information run rampant.
I have not corrected people with regards to the timelines on our chips or what we have and haven't done because a) it's not really any use, the speculation is rampant and b) we really do have a pretty unique process going on behind the scenes that would be a competitive advantage to any competitors, and that's not something we want to advertise. Some of the speculation is close, some of it is reasonable but wrong and some of it (most of it) is just plain ludicrous. For the most part, I've found the people who speak with the most authoritative voice about what's going on behind the scenes of BFL are the most ridiculous, while those that are simply making statements seem to be much more accurate.
I write this big, long winded post because I am trying to convey the fact that I understand and empathize with the frustration of delay. We are doing everything in our power to minimize the delays and we have always given a timeline that we believed was possible. I really think many people will have a nice present to put under their Christmas tree this year. Everything is coming together and we are looking very good for the middle of December sometime... the date is still a bit fluid, but as soon as I know a more firm date, I will definitely post it.
TL;DR: We apologize for the delays. We are doing everything in our power to get the ASICs out as fast as possible and every delay kills us as much as it kills you. We don't want to post about delays. We have given our honest best estimate on timelines from day one, and even though we haven't met the October deadline, we are doing everything in our power to get the chips ready to ship.
На секундочку прочитайте тут - клаць
учитывая вложения в производство я реально не представляю, какой банк поверил басням в картинках, которых в начале лета еще и небыло (они же клянутся, что деньги/монеты с предоплат не трогают)...или они были, но только стали выкладывать сейчас по мере негодования народа.
И нахрена они выложили фотографии коробок старых фпга синглов??
Видя какое рвение проявляют бабколюбу,все больше и больше считаю,что бабки это секта.
??Видя какое рвение проявляют бабколюбу,все больше и больше считаю,что бабки это секта.
Троль какого уровя 96-го ?
И нахрена они выложили фотографии коробок старых фпга синглов??
Видя какое рвение проявляют бабколюбу,все больше и больше считаю,что бабки это секта.
??Видя какое рвение проявляют бабколюбу,все больше и больше считаю,что бабки это секта.
Я хотя бы не утверждаю так как это делаешь ты, как-будто сидишь там у них в офисе работаешь. Если ты не веришь всему что пишут бабки, всему что они постят на офф форуме, то это неизлечимая болезнь... Зачем тогда сюда заходить и лишний раз выговариваться что это все фуфло. Не надоело ?
Я даж на их форуме никогда не был. Я вижу что люди пишут, и не вижу готовых устройств. А еще они их обещали в октябре, а завтра декабрь как бы... Так что пох что они там пишут, они уже лоханулись и теперь просто оправдываются.
Я хотя бы не утверждаю так как это делаешь ты, как-будто сидишь там у них в офисе работаешь. Если ты не веришь всему что пишут бабки, всему что они постят на офф форуме, то это неизлечимая болезнь... Зачем тогда сюда заходить и лишний раз выговариваться что это все фуфло. Не надоело ?
Главное слово в этом предложении делают. Тебе то откуда знать что и чего они сделали, а чего нет ?
А не вижу того что они сделали. А Вам откуда известно, что они делают? Делают как могут, с косяками, с задержками, с предзаказами - это биткоин, а не разработка нового технологического оборудования в НИИ по гос заказу.
Да пока что ничего еще не сделали... ВООБЩЕ, ничего...Главное слово в этом предложении делают. Тебе то откуда знать что и чего они сделали, а чего нет ?
Делают как могут, с косяками, с задержками, с предзаказами - это биткоин, а не разработка нового технологического оборудования в НИИ по гос заказу.
Да пока что ничего еще не сделали... ВООБЩЕ, ничего...Как ничего? а как же красивые картинки в фотошопе?
Делают как могут, с косяками, с задержками, с предзаказами - это биткоин, а не разработка нового технологического оборудования в НИИ по гос заказу.
Да пока что ничего еще не сделали... ВООБЩЕ, ничего... Jump to: