Topic: BFL (Butterfly Labs) Monarch Very Late. ||Attention: Lawyers & Monarch Customers (Read 3257 times)

Delays must be accepted by the customer, and if the customer refuses to accept the delay, a "prompt refund" is required. Never ending delays without refunds is not legal. Period.

No it is not legal to hold customer funds "forever" however if there are legit delays in producing the product that is being sold then as far as I can tell then would be acceptable in the eyes of the law.

Sorry, Charlie!

Nothing I suggest is illegal.

Nothing.

I assure you that BFL would be far, far more than "annoyed".

The search cengines detest this sort of thing and can even de-index the target as a result and I can't think of nicer people that BFL for that to happen to.

Now, as long as we're on the subject, you're telling me that it is NOT Ok to be perhaps a bit unethical when trying to stop a firm that has:

Stolen money from customers.

Lied about delivery dates.

Defrauded thousands.

Refused refunds.

Continued lawsuits ad absurdum.

Very probably broken Federal law in failure to properly label and certify equipment.

Dug in while people's lives go down the tubes.

Who you want them to call?

Ghostbusters?

I no longer think that there is one single pair of cojones in all of this forum.

Get all namby-pamby about a little very effective Negative SEO against scumbuckets.

What?

Naw, we just tell'em about the scumbuckets.

No harm in that or laws broken and no waiting for the so-called "wheels of justice" to turn at their pitifully slow rate.

Now, let me tell you what you have done this fine Sunday morning.

I've had five cups of really strong French Roast coffee so far today and I am locked an loaded for bear.

You've lit my rockets, tthat's what you've done!

Bother people on the Internet beause "ONLY" 20,000 people have lost their hard-earned money?

NO!

I want to "BOTHER" the whole Goddamned world with it!

In those 20,000 people are those who now cannot feed their families because of the fraud of BFL.  There are those who cannot afford proper medical care for thier children because of the fraud of BFL.

There are even some who have lost their fucking homes because of the fraud of BFL and you want to stand on YOUR laurels and "principles" and be above the whole thing?

Well, you just stand on your laurels and principloes and hope to fuck that one day YOU don't all off.

You don't fight thieves and fraudsters by being a nice guy and playing by Marquis of Queensbury rules.

You get'em in a knockdown dragout, you bite off eir ears and noses, you gouge their eyes, you grab their cojones and squeeze as had as you can, you hit'em abvoe the belt; you hit'em below the belt, you kick them when they are down and you keep hitting and kicking until they PAY THE FUCK UP!

This is what my plan is about and if you don't like, quite frankly I think that you should do one of two thing:

(1) Offer a better plan.

(2) Just shut the fuck up.

Makes no difference to me.

Rant over for now.

Thanks for reading.

The Dutchman.

Ugh. You mean you intend to robot-spam all kind of sites, bypassing their captchas and such?  You want to annoy a dirty scumbag who stole money from 20'000 people by wasting the time of millions of readers and administrators who have nothing to do with that?

You lost me there.  I hope the law gets to you somehow, as well as to the BFL scumbags.  Bye.

Oh, you are getting a cached version of the site.  HG will hang onto those sometimes for a while.

Try this:

http://wedemandjusticefrombfl.com/

That link gets me to a HostGator window that asks me to log in. Shouldn't the site have public access?

Jusgements take time and can be appealed into the next century.

I have a way to hold BFL by its nose and kick it in the ass until it squeals like the pig it is and can't get any interest in the program.

I do not understand.

Correct me if I'm wrong but BFL is not bankrupt right now right?  That means you can get fiat from them, heck use them get a judgment and say pay up or you're going bankrupt.

I know how to build a fire under BFL's ass.

Check my sig.

BFL has a horrible history of massive delays with their miners. I am surprised that people are still doing business with them.

Well, BFL seems to beleive that and so far is doing a damned good job of it!

Do you honestly believe it's legal that if you promise to ship "someday" you can hold customer funds forever and never give a refund?

If you look at the paragraph above the one you quoted

It appears that the 30 day rule only goes into effect if no statement is made as to when the product would ship.

I do not at all advocate for what BFL has done but I think they are covered here. They have had massive delays before without legal consequence. If they were not covered by their disclaimer then the FTC would be all over them for their previous and current delays.

Fortunately there are laws against such tactics. It is not legal to never deliver a product nor a refund.

http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule


"or more" is not a certain time frame, and thus the 30-day rule comes into effect.

One of the most critical aspects of this program, which I did not touch upon on the website (I forgot to paste in a couple of paragraphs but I will fix that when I do final editing today!) is the loss of Page Rank in the search engines or SERPS.

What are SERPS?

Short for search engine results page, the Web page that a search engine returns with the results of its search. The major search engines typically display three kinds of listings on their SERPs. Listings that have been indexed by the search engine's spider, listings that have been indexed into the search engine's directory by a human, and listings that are paid to be listed by the search engine.

A program such as ours can cause a previously listed Page One entity to move so far down the page rank that it is hard to find.

We know of one such instance in which a Page One was reduced to Page 65 in only a matter of days.

Combine loss of SERPS with an overloaded inbox and a telephone system that is on fire and on the verge of melting down and you're going to get someone's attention.

Well, keep an eye on:

WeDemandJusticeFromBFL.com

I'm sure Sonny is!

We at WeDemandJusticeFromBFL.com are dedicated to ensuring that BFL delivers product in a timely manner or make immediate refunds to those who request it.

BFL will rue the day that it failed to do either!

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7760011

The Dutchman.

From the BFL website:
From the Checkout page on the BFL website:
Please note the "or more" part of the terms. As much as I dislike BFL and think that it is a horrible idea to pay for preorders as BFL's customers do, it appears that they are at least somewhat covered by not giving a hard upper bound timeframe as to when the machines will be ready and delivered.

Who would want to take over the debt-ridden mess that is BFL?

Makes no sense at all!

I have no personal interest in this matter; but, in general, when a company begins to stall on many of its customers, it is a waste of time to continue talking to them.  It depends on your country, but you either go to a small claims court directly, or hire a lawyer who will notify them of your intention to sue if they do not deliver the goods/refund immediately; and then sue them right away if they don't.  

WHY they failed to fulfill your order is totally irrelevant, you do not have to be "understanding".  They are a business, so dealing with them should be strictly business.

In this case there is already a class action going on, so there is no need to think about that.

Also, do not waste your dream energy by dreaming of a takeover of the company by some miraculous management that would get your money faster or better than a lawsuit would.  If the company cannot right itself under the pressure of lawsuits, it cannot be saved by a takeover.  If a lawsuit cannot get your money back, a reborn company will not give it to you, either. That goes for MtGOX too, by the way.

EDIT: Also, when a company gets to the point of stalling on many of its customers, they stop caring for bad press in the internet or the media.  Look at MtGOX.  The most one can do through those means is warn other people before they send more money to the company.

In addition to the ongoing legal maneuvering there is this:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7760011

Check it out!