Topic: BFL Extremely Abusive (Read 2259 times)
Watching the BFL drama play out is like a damn soap opera on Telemundo! I haven't ordered from them, but I still check the Jody blog updates just to see the progress. Hopefully my KNC machine wont turn out like BFL and I'll get it before difficulty goes through the roof. I feel bad for the BFL customers. 60GHS a year ago would have been a MONSTER machine! Hell, even a 5GHS machine would have been respectable!
We all shoud find them and beet them 
clasick scam!
clasick scam!
Joshua, why does the company you represent violate FTC regulations with your no refund policy? Why do you believe that what you say supersedes the law? The reality you live in has a population of one, that is you if you couldn't figure it out. Would you like to bet 100 BTC that the Monarch will not meet the specs you have put forth for the form factor?
Run back to your troll cave.
Time to sue Butterfly Labs as their is plenty of evidence to support that they are fraudulent with their activities. They are still taking preorders for their SC line of products with a two month delivery time, which is not possible and misleading per the shipping Blogs rate of production or lack thereof, or more is non specific. The Monarch is being offered currently for a December delivery and Joshua has said on his little forum that you will not get it till February if ordered now, purposefully misleading unsuspecting customers into the bait and switch with no refunds. Plus countless other lies that Joshua on behalf of BFL has told its customers.
And a Public Service Announcement!
If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask Butterfly Labs for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.
There are also several threads on how to get a refund from BFL, here are two:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/yes-you-can-get-a-refund-from-bfl-266945
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/butterfly-labs-did-everything-they-could-to-make-getting-a-refund-impossible-272585
Run back to your troll cave.
Time to sue Butterfly Labs as their is plenty of evidence to support that they are fraudulent with their activities. They are still taking preorders for their SC line of products with a two month delivery time, which is not possible and misleading per the shipping Blogs rate of production or lack thereof, or more is non specific. The Monarch is being offered currently for a December delivery and Joshua has said on his little forum that you will not get it till February if ordered now, purposefully misleading unsuspecting customers into the bait and switch with no refunds. Plus countless other lies that Joshua on behalf of BFL has told its customers.
And a Public Service Announcement!
If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask Butterfly Labs for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.
There are also several threads on how to get a refund from BFL, here are two:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/yes-you-can-get-a-refund-from-bfl-266945
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/butterfly-labs-did-everything-they-could-to-make-getting-a-refund-impossible-272585
... This is what one should expect from a company that is headed by a convicted criminal. I only found this out after I ordered.
And this is exactly why BFL should get a scammer tag: To make new members of this community think twice before they give money to this company.
By the way: This is what Inaba / Josh Zerlan (COO of BFL) thinks about us:
... Everyone here is monumental assholes, no matter how accommodating one tries to be. ...
I asked BFL for a refund and they came back saying that they don't refund. I ordered when they said they are delivering and deliveries take "two months or more." This is said with the deliberate intention to deceive. It gives a clear indication that two months is a ballpark figure when they know full well the waiting list is longer than a year. This is what one should expect from a company that is headed by a convicted criminal. J only found this out after I ordered.
I would beg to differ:
"they have now taken more than 12-18 months to deliver on their products." would seem to indicate otherwise, since we never promised delivery until October or November.
Why do you say "they have" when you should say "we have"? Are you still trying to deny you are Josh Zerlan?They've been taking pre-orders for ASICS early 2012, they have now taken more than 12-18 months to deliver on their products.
"they have now taken more than 12-18 months to deliver on their products." would seem to indicate otherwise, since we never promised delivery until October or November.
You don't understand what quotes are used for, do you? /mourns for our education system.
Any employee of any company that spoke to any individual like that would be immediately fired unless, of course, said employee sucks the dick of the owner, namely Sonny Vleisides.
I would beg to differ:
"they have now taken more than 12-18 months to deliver on their products." would seem to indicate otherwise, since we never promised delivery until October or November.
They've been taking pre-orders for ASICS early 2012, they have now taken more than 12-18 months to deliver on their products.
"they have now taken more than 12-18 months to deliver on their products." would seem to indicate otherwise, since we never promised delivery until October or November.
I'm not sure what's going on here, but Inaba has no authority to post official statements pertaining to BF Labs Inc., et al.
l?
Perhaps BFL_Josh has never altered history. But absolutely has in the context of BFL communications.
(Search for "memory hole" and folks can find one of my follow-ups where this happened.)
--
I remember what I've read. And I've read all the BFL related threads starting with the Fall 2011 BFL one's.
I recognize that you're new to BFL corporate membership, but there is a *lot* of history to overcome before BFL has a good reputation.
Absolutely I want to take that position. That accusation is pretty serious, please provide a link where I strategically deleted any information I've posted as either Inaba or BFL_Josh. Once again, people are acting like it's a secret that I have two accounts; It's not. In my capacity as a representative of BFL, I post as BFL_Josh, for other things, I post as Inaba.
But in both cases, I don't hide what I write or strategically delete/alter anything. I've been accused of that in the past by certain members of this forum, but when the chips were down it was shown those individuals lied and any accusations they made were completely fabricated just to support their weak and untenable position. There's a feature of the forum if you use the default skin where it says when the message was last edited... so please be careful what you accuse me of, because I can prove you wrong if you are just making things up. If there some place that I strategically deleted something, please point it out as I have no recollection of it and it would be an error on my part.
Who has deleted posts before? Certainly not me.
Do you really want to take that position, BFL_Josh, also AKA Perhaps BFL_Josh has never altered history. But
(Search for "memory hole" and folks can find one of my follow-ups where this happened.)
--
I remember what I've read. And I've read all the BFL related threads starting with the Fall 2011 BFL one's.
I recognize that you're new to BFL corporate membership, but there is a *lot* of history to overcome before BFL has a good reputation.
Absolutely I want to take that position. That accusation is pretty serious, please provide a link where I strategically deleted any information I've posted as either Inaba or BFL_Josh. Once again, people are acting like it's a secret that I have two accounts; It's not. In my capacity as a representative of BFL, I post as BFL_Josh, for other things, I post as Inaba.
But in both cases, I don't hide what I write or strategically delete/alter anything. I've been accused of that in the past by certain members of this forum, but when the chips were down it was shown those individuals lied and any accusations they made were completely fabricated just to support their weak and untenable position. There's a feature of the forum if you use the default skin where it says when the message was last edited... so please be careful what you accuse me of, because I can prove you wrong if you are just making things up. If there some place that I strategically deleted something, please point it out as I have no recollection of it and it would be an error on my part.
Inaba: so even with 10 months being late. Is it fair? After 10 months of waiting you will never see positive ROI.
I suggest you read up on how bitcoin difficulty works as related to hashrate on the network. Whether it's 10 months or 1 month, it's completely immaterial to your ROI. The network difficulty would be far greater than it is now back in December if we had shipped everything in October and you'd have the same people complaining because they don't understand how bitcoin works.
Sir, I call this bullshit. You sound like most or all of diff comes from BFL devices? This is not true. Every days of your scam delay someone is getting ASICs in hand from other companies. BFL has some percentage of hashing network but not most or all. Asicminer, Bitfury, Avalon, and there are others. 10 months of waiting means that you are forced to find a noob (ebay?) who will overpay for your order (if you want to have positive roi). Those are the facts.
What evidence do you want me to provide that would be accepted, other than the fact that the increase in hashrate can't be accounted for from any other source?
I guess the obvious statistic would be total GH/s of kit so far delivered by BFL.
What evidence do you want me to provide that would be accepted, other than the fact that the increase in hashrate can't be accounted for from any other source?
lmfaooo. you sir, are delusional
I suggest you read up on how bitcoin difficulty works as related to hashrate on the network. Whether it's 10 months or 1 month, it's completely immaterial to your ROI. The network difficulty would be far greater than it is now back in December if we had shipped everything in October and you'd have the same people complaining because they don't understand how bitcoin works.
Can you please provide some evidence to back up the claim that the recent rise in difficulty is due to the recent slow supply of BFL kit? Repeatedly making the claim doesn't make it true. If you have some calculations which back up the claim, then please share them.
I originally ordered from you in October and November last year and the sales pitch then was that the devices would be delivered before Avalon. That didn't happen. I have undoubtedly lost the potential to have made greater and faster ROI and profit if I'd invested in Avalon or ASICMiner back then. Instead, my money has been locked up in your company for nearly a year. The whole thing has been a disappointment...
What evidence do you want me to provide that would be accepted, other than the fact that the increase in hashrate can't be accounted for from any other source?
Inaba: so even with 10 months being late. Is it fair? After 10 months of waiting you will never see positive ROI.
I suggest you read up on how bitcoin difficulty works as related to hashrate on the network. Whether it's 10 months or 1 month, it's completely immaterial to your ROI. The network difficulty would be far greater than it is now back in December if we had shipped everything in October and you'd have the same people complaining because they don't understand how bitcoin works.
Unless you want to celebrate the 4,000th "BFL screws hitler" video with us. Then by all means stick around.
I suggest you read up on how bitcoin difficulty works as related to hashrate on the network. Whether it's 10 months or 1 month, it's completely immaterial to your ROI. The network difficulty would be far greater than it is now back in December if we had shipped everything in October and you'd have the same people complaining because they don't understand how bitcoin works.
Can you please provide some evidence to back up the claim that the recent rise in difficulty is due to the recent slow supply of BFL kit? Repeatedly making the claim doesn't make it true. If you have some calculations which back up the claim, then please share them.
I originally ordered from you in October and November last year and the sales pitch then was that the devices would be delivered before Avalon. That didn't happen. I have undoubtedly lost the potential to have made greater and faster ROI and profit if I'd invested in Avalon or ASICMiner back then. Instead, my money has been locked up in your company for nearly a year. The whole thing has been a disappointment...
Inaba: so even with 10 months being late. Is it fair? After 10 months of waiting you will never see positive ROI.
I suggest you read up on how bitcoin difficulty works as related to hashrate on the network. Whether it's 10 months or 1 month, it's completely immaterial to your ROI. The network difficulty would be far greater than it is now back in December if we had shipped everything in October and you'd have the same people complaining because they don't understand how bitcoin works.
Inaba: so even with 10 months being late. Is it fair? After 10 months of waiting you will never see positive ROI.
Actually they can't, because the difficulty level of the bitcoin network will adjust and go up very quickly. They are making a TON more money taking orders and then delaying shipments as long as possible.
Call that a scam if you will. Frankly I'm glad I haven't placed any orders with them.
-Michael
I totally agree with this - the future of mining (for a business) is not in mining, it's in manufacturing.
I would beg to differ:
"they have now taken more than 12-18 months to deliver on their products." would seem to indicate otherwise, since we never promised delivery until October or November.
Why do you say "they have" when you should say "we have"? Are you still trying to deny you are Josh Zerlan?They've been taking pre-orders for ASICS early 2012, they have now taken more than 12-18 months to deliver on their products.
"they have now taken more than 12-18 months to deliver on their products." would seem to indicate otherwise, since we never promised delivery until October or November.
You don't understand what quotes are used for, do you? /mourns for our education system.
They've been taking pre-orders for ASICS early 2012, they have now taken more than 12-18 months to deliver on their products.
Of course, this is a lie. Not a single order's scheduled delivery date is more than 10 months old. Where you get the claim of 12 - 18 months is beyond me, but it's completely, unequivocally false (in other words, an outright lie.)Inaba / BFL_Josh is wrong - as usual.
There you go lying again, Frizz. Can you show me one single person we guaranteed shipping in June for? No? Why not? Because you're a liar. Shipping was originally scheduled for October/November of 2012. It's not even October yet, so it's physically impossible for any order to be more than 10 months late.
You, sir, are a liar (just like the OP)! Congrats... but we already knew that.
LOL, I love how the company is bragging that orders are "only" 10 months late. These guys clearly don't give a shit about their customers (or "suckers" if you work for BFL).
Quote from: Inaba link=topic=206692.msg2975586#msg2975586
There you go lying again, Frizz. Can you show me one single person we guaranteed shipping in June for? No? Why not? Because you're a liar. Shipping was originally scheduled for October/November of 2012. It's not even October yet, so it's physically impossible for any order to be more than 10 months late.
You, sir, are a liar (just like the OP)! Congrats... but we already knew that.
Don't you represent BFL?
I guess this confirms the thread title.
If I were 10 months late delivering a product I'd be embarrassed rather than on the offensive.
Edit: Fixing quote
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