Quote
I would not be surprised one bit to see the FTC descend on BFL like a swarm of locust!!!!!!
LMAO!
Topic: BFL ignores their own customers/investors on their official forum. (Read 2640 times)
LMAO!
July 08, 2013, 10:31:52 PM
BFL are scammers. I thought that was clear already?
At of all the missteps that BFL has done in the past, categorically enforcing their "All sales are final!" policy is probably their worst...
Camp BFL and their investors are so screwed. Mark my words.
It's also the weirdest IMO, unless of course BFL is running out of money then it is the only chance they have.
CEO is a convicted felon and the company seems to be pissing in the face of the FTC MAIL ORDER RULE LOL (oh the sweet fucking irony for Sonny). I would not be surprised one bit to see the FTC descend on BFL like a swarm of locust!!!!!!
Crazy way out in left field, never in a million years could this happen (certainly not accusing anyone) but just what if:
No more refunds, delivery appears to have slowed down to a trickle, bulk chip sales 50% up front, good possibility of a run on the bank very soon, possible FTC problems... I wonder if anyone over there is making some travel arrangements.
July 08, 2013, 09:32:20 PM
BFL are scammers. I thought that was clear already?
Clear to some from the get-go. I've just finished reading several threads on BFL's forum, and it looks like it's becoming clear to a slew of BFL's formal loyal investors.
At of all the missteps that BFL has done in the past, categorically enforcing their "All sales are final!" policy is probably their worst.
They could have quietly given everybody who asked for a refund their money back and they would have been in better position than they are in now.
Several folks over there are threatening to contact the FTC, and I'm sure that's the last thing Sonny Boy wants prior to his probation ending this September. I predict a raid of some sorts on their facility no later than the end of August, right after Jody officially retires.
How the fuck Sonny is getting away with selling Lottery systems on his Webspawner site is beyond me.
And when the raid happens, I'm sure they confiscate all of Sonny's step-dad's equipment as well since it's his name, supposedly, on the Wyoming SoS inc. documents.
I'm not sure how many miners were sold, but do the math:
Iff full production consist of 400 units a day, then that equates to only 12,000 units a month. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the total amount of units sold supposedly close to 60K? And this figure is base upon not a single glitch. Realistically, we're looking at the spring of 2014 before all current pre-orders are filled, not counting any orders placed from here on out.
Camp BFL and their investors are so screwed. Mark my words.
July 08, 2013, 08:30:58 PM
BFL are scammers. I thought that was clear already?
July 08, 2013, 08:25:34 PM
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3675-refund-policy.html
Pick one:
Pretend for a second your a newbie to Bitcoin, and the first thing you find is BFL and BT running BFL ads. You see Josh's comments. What are the chances of you ever revisiting Bitcoin again? What are the chances of you have a positive thing to say about Bitcoin when sometime in the future a buddy of yours mentions Bitcoin?
I think it'll be safe to state that your comments will all be negative, all based upon you discovering Josh's/BFL's line of bullshit first.
So sad!
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All sales are final at this point. We are in full production, thus your orders are final.
If you've filed a complaint with the FTC, then there's nothing I can do, you'll have to follow up with the FTC from here on out, as no one here can assist you with that. Please be sure to direct all correspondence to them in the future going forward.
If you've filed a complaint with the FTC, then there's nothing I can do, you'll have to follow up with the FTC from here on out, as no one here can assist you with that. Please be sure to direct all correspondence to them in the future going forward.
Pick one:
- Fully Custom
- Full Production
- Full of Shit
Pretend for a second your a newbie to Bitcoin, and the first thing you find is BFL and BT running BFL ads. You see Josh's comments. What are the chances of you ever revisiting Bitcoin again? What are the chances of you have a positive thing to say about Bitcoin when sometime in the future a buddy of yours mentions Bitcoin?
I think it'll be safe to state that your comments will all be negative, all based upon you discovering Josh's/BFL's line of bullshit first.
So sad!
July 07, 2013, 07:44:58 PM
Can you spot what's wrong with the following post?
Inaba came by the office today and we spoke about just this issue. Several overseas customers have been asking about this as well and it does make quite a lot of sense. Inaba runs a data center of course... and he's a stone's throw away from our office, so I expect he'll have a packaged solution worked up pretty soon.
Ironically, this transpired just prior to Josh becoming a full time employee/partner with BFL.
I haven't been folowing everything BFL related, Please enlighten me on the fpgas and asics ETA.
I wish I could purchase BFL FPGAs and have them returned for ASICs, but if I'm to be able to mine on the FPGAs for a few month only and have to pay shipping back and forth it wouldn't be worth it...
It's ~100$ lost for shipping back and forth for a single and 400$ on a mini rig.
Wouldn't it be better if someone at driving distance from BFL could take care of mining with the FPGAs for us while we get our ASICs ready ?
(While paying electricity and maintenance fees.)
I wish I could purchase BFL FPGAs and have them returned for ASICs, but if I'm to be able to mine on the FPGAs for a few month only and have to pay shipping back and forth it wouldn't be worth it...
It's ~100$ lost for shipping back and forth for a single and 400$ on a mini rig.
Wouldn't it be better if someone at driving distance from BFL could take care of mining with the FPGAs for us while we get our ASICs ready ?
(While paying electricity and maintenance fees.)
Inaba came by the office today and we spoke about just this issue. Several overseas customers have been asking about this as well and it does make quite a lot of sense. Inaba runs a data center of course... and he's a stone's throw away from our office, so I expect he'll have a packaged solution worked up pretty soon.
Ironically, this transpired just prior to Josh becoming a full time employee/partner with BFL.
July 07, 2013, 07:16:16 PM
On second thought, what better place then to host BFL miners.
Here's what I would do.
Get a slew of people to host their miners at either one of the three data centers controlled by Aaron, Joe and Josh, then move them to a safe house prior to tipping the feds of some going-ons at said centers, then claim that all the hardware on the premises were confiscated, having nothing more to say on the matter due to some made-up gag order.
Needless to say, they can then start mining with the paid for miners. Genius!
Quote
Aaron Wendel opened the doors of his business to some unexpected visitors on the morning of Mar. 16, 2011. The chief technology officer of Kansas City based hosting provider Wholesale Internet found that two U.S. marshals, a pair of computer forensics experts and a Microsoft lawyer had come calling, armed with papers allowing them to enter the facility and to commandeer computer hard drives and portions of the hosting firm’s network. Anyone attempting to interfere would be subject to arrest and prosecution.
Here's what I would do.
Get a slew of people to host their miners at either one of the three data centers controlled by Aaron, Joe and Josh, then move them to a safe house prior to tipping the feds of some going-ons at said centers, then claim that all the hardware on the premises were confiscated, having nothing more to say on the matter due to some made-up gag order.
Needless to say, they can then start mining with the paid for miners. Genius!
July 07, 2013, 06:25:05 PM
From the same thread mentioned above by ASIC=J (probably Josh, for his sig reads "Nemesis -
Is the dumbest and biggest troll on BFL! Everybody should ignore this little idiot and his posts!: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showwiki.php?title=FAQ:MiniRig+SC+and+Single+SC+Hosting&page=12&do=comments
What's wrong with the above, you ask? Well, if you don't like Community Hosting or Joe's DataCenter, go with WholeSaleInternet. Same basic principals. And if you don't want your unit mining to Eclipse, Josh is more than happy to start another pool(s) for you all.
BTW, this is being heavily pushed on the Russia Bitcoin forums besides here to save them lucky souls from paying shipping cost.
I may have a spike in my head, but at least I don't have a spike in my head.
Is the dumbest and biggest troll on BFL! Everybody should ignore this little idiot and his posts!: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showwiki.php?title=FAQ:MiniRig+SC+and+Single+SC+Hosting&page=12&do=comments
Quote
You are very right!!! Community Hosting only charges 1 price for Singles and another for MRs.
Other co-location places will charge based on space, power & Internet. Usually costs $40 for mid-tower or $50 for 1-4U. That includes 5 IPs, 10 TB download & 1A @ 120V (120 watts).
Server Colocation Packages
For $90, you could get the following from another hosting company:
Mid-tower or 4U (for space) + 5A* @ 120V (600 watts) + 1 Mbit Internet connection + 5 IPs (only need 1 for host system).
*Cost for power is $12/1A with some places charging as high as $20/1A. 1A costs company $6-10/month depending where in the contiguous USA they are located.
https://www.wholesaleinternet.net/colocation/
That would work out to hosting 2 LS for $90 - $45/LS - if you use someone else to host them. Also, have to use a very small or tiny & low power computer for the ASIC host. Like a R-PI, router or Android tablet with a powered USB hub.
Community Hosting is interested in going after the big money!!! That means just interested in MRs & Singles. They don't want to waste their time handling weaker devices for less money. They realize it is not worth hosting Jalapeno or LS for $90/month. ie. else you would be paying 2X price for LS than you should. So best to just get these shipped to customers instead.
Other co-location places will charge based on space, power & Internet. Usually costs $40 for mid-tower or $50 for 1-4U. That includes 5 IPs, 10 TB download & 1A @ 120V (120 watts).
Server Colocation Packages
For $90, you could get the following from another hosting company:
Mid-tower or 4U (for space) + 5A* @ 120V (600 watts) + 1 Mbit Internet connection + 5 IPs (only need 1 for host system).
*Cost for power is $12/1A with some places charging as high as $20/1A. 1A costs company $6-10/month depending where in the contiguous USA they are located.
https://www.wholesaleinternet.net/colocation/
That would work out to hosting 2 LS for $90 - $45/LS - if you use someone else to host them. Also, have to use a very small or tiny & low power computer for the ASIC host. Like a R-PI, router or Android tablet with a powered USB hub.
Community Hosting is interested in going after the big money!!! That means just interested in MRs & Singles. They don't want to waste their time handling weaker devices for less money. They realize it is not worth hosting Jalapeno or LS for $90/month. ie. else you would be paying 2X price for LS than you should. So best to just get these shipped to customers instead.
What's wrong with the above, you ask? Well, if you don't like Community Hosting or Joe's DataCenter, go with WholeSaleInternet. Same basic principals. And if you don't want your unit mining to Eclipse, Josh is more than happy to start another pool(s) for you all.
BTW, this is being heavily pushed on the Russia Bitcoin forums besides here to save them lucky souls from paying shipping cost.
I may have a spike in my head, but at least I don't have a spike in my head.
July 07, 2013, 12:39:02 PM
I hereby to say, Iam lucky to get out of the loop before the worst time. Currently, The miner sold does not mention You can get something back. The BFL may be the most questionable thing
July 07, 2013, 12:35:18 PM
For those who don't visit BFL's forum, allow me to quote the following exchange, with the Just Joshin' Jester Josh's remarks in red: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3703-josh-its-time-update-bfl-asic-status-4.html#post45944
If this is the most acceptable business practice, then why don't most other businesses practice it? Clearly, addressing concerns causes more problems then they solve, so why even have a customer service department whose main task is to address questions and concerns.
Quote
Originally Posted by txzaza View Post
I think I can speak for most people on this forum, we all want our BFL machines and we are all biting out tongues in hopes of getting updates and useful information to try to understand when that might happen, but we are all really tired of the complete bullshit we get from BFL regarding when things will ship. In the past week we went from "all back orders shipping by end of August" to now "September".. and hold your breath and wait for "October" because we know it's coming. I haven't tallied it all up, but my guess is there's enough false, wrong, bullshit or simply hopelessly optimistic information put out over the past year that any State Attorney General would jump in and drill these guys a new assh0le. I'm at a frustation point, while I've been biting my tongue like most everyone else, it's only because I feel like I have zero power in this situation. Businesses cannot string along customers, they cannot take your money and regardless of what they put in the fine print, screw you over for months, years... I sincerely hope BFL is a successful, ships what they sold and makes us all happy but they don't have a track record of accuracy or honestly even when they do cryptically decide to communicate with us. Okay, I'm done venting. Time to drink beer.
Then stop asking for updates, it's that simple. If you want updates and estimates, then they will tend to be modified as time goes on. If you want 100% accurate information, then wait. There's no other option.
Quote Originally Posted by Sukovsky View Post
How about you just tell us?
Because it causes more problems than it solves, so that's not going to happen either.
I think I can speak for most people on this forum, we all want our BFL machines and we are all biting out tongues in hopes of getting updates and useful information to try to understand when that might happen, but we are all really tired of the complete bullshit we get from BFL regarding when things will ship. In the past week we went from "all back orders shipping by end of August" to now "September".. and hold your breath and wait for "October" because we know it's coming. I haven't tallied it all up, but my guess is there's enough false, wrong, bullshit or simply hopelessly optimistic information put out over the past year that any State Attorney General would jump in and drill these guys a new assh0le. I'm at a frustation point, while I've been biting my tongue like most everyone else, it's only because I feel like I have zero power in this situation. Businesses cannot string along customers, they cannot take your money and regardless of what they put in the fine print, screw you over for months, years... I sincerely hope BFL is a successful, ships what they sold and makes us all happy but they don't have a track record of accuracy or honestly even when they do cryptically decide to communicate with us. Okay, I'm done venting. Time to drink beer.
Then stop asking for updates, it's that simple. If you want updates and estimates, then they will tend to be modified as time goes on. If you want 100% accurate information, then wait. There's no other option.
Quote Originally Posted by Sukovsky View Post
How about you just tell us?
Because it causes more problems than it solves, so that's not going to happen either.
If this is the most acceptable business practice, then why don't most other businesses practice it? Clearly, addressing concerns causes more problems then they solve, so why even have a customer service department whose main task is to address questions and concerns.
July 07, 2013, 12:25:43 PM
Phinnaeus, geesh. Enough with the free promotion for BFL.
Your posts seem to be sending a clear message: BFL is the most important company in Bitcoinland. Is this your intention?
Your posts seem to be sending a clear message: BFL is the most important company in Bitcoinland. Is this your intention?
Yes!
One would be hard-pressed to name a more important company in Bitcoinland.
July 07, 2013, 11:20:21 AM
Really?
Most important?
Did they have a booth... hmmm can't remember.
Most important?
Did they have a booth... hmmm can't remember.
July 07, 2013, 10:59:53 AM
Phinnaeus, geesh. Enough with the free promotion for BFL.
Your posts seem to be sending a clear message: BFL is the most important company in Bitcoinland. Is this your intention?
Your posts seem to be sending a clear message: BFL is the most important company in Bitcoinland. Is this your intention?
July 07, 2013, 10:39:32 AM
Phin FFS, please post this kind of stuff somewhere else.
No, please, let this used-planks seller post as much as possible, including that bunch of <100 posts jordaninthesky, xian and frizz23 sock puppet accounts, they bring BFL more money in new pre-orders than their advertising here does! July 07, 2013, 10:25:37 AM
Phin FFS, please post this kind of stuff somewhere else.
Why do you keep post them on Hardware > Custom Hardware?
Please find some other place, thank you.
Why do you keep post them on Hardware > Custom Hardware?
Please find some other place, thank you.
It is relevant. Unfortunately not enough people read these posts. Hopefully it heads off others from using any services these morons offer particularly Hardware and CUSTOM HARDWARE which is what BFL is primarily involved with. Here is hoping that these posts cease when BFL ceases to do business.
If these threads -which can get a little over the top, yeah- are the forum for that information, then they serve a mainline purpose.
EDIT: I followed post #5's link into the bfl site. Yikes. Mistake. It's creepy over there.
One thing that was funny, though. Fan says (paraphrase) "If you bitched this much in a restaurant, bad things would come out the kitchen."
Guy replies that if it were a restaurant, there would be no bitching. Starvation would have long ago taken care of that.
July 07, 2013, 10:25:19 AM
I don't where you get this stuff PG.....................but I love it
Like reading a drama novel & watching a soap opera all in one
+1! I love it too. The drama never ends!
July 07, 2013, 10:11:07 AM
Phin FFS, please post this kind of stuff somewhere else.
Why do you keep post them on Hardware > Custom Hardware?
Please find some other place, thank you.
Why do you keep post them on Hardware > Custom Hardware?
Please find some other place, thank you.
It is relevant. Unfortunately not enough people read these posts. Hopefully it heads off others from using any services these morons offer particularly Hardware and CUSTOM HARDWARE which is what BFL is primarily involved with. Here is hoping that these posts cease when BFL ceases to do business.
July 07, 2013, 10:05:07 AM
Phin FFS, please post this kind of stuff somewhere else.
Why do you keep post them on Hardware > Custom Hardware?
Please find some other place, thank you.
Why do you keep post them on Hardware > Custom Hardware?
Please find some other place, thank you.
July 07, 2013, 09:57:05 AM
I don't where you get this stuff PG.....................but I love it
Like reading a drama novel & watching a soap opera all in one
Love em or hate em, end up or down, crooks, con-men, or incompetents, BFL is one hell of a good story.
Have to agree there is a book and movie in here somewhere.
July 07, 2013, 09:27:00 AM
I don't where you get this stuff PG.....................but I love it
Like reading a drama novel & watching a soap opera all in one
Love em or hate em, end up or down, crooks, con-men, or incompetents, BFL is one hell of a good story.
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