Update: Took the old 232 chip off the board. You cannot do this with a soldering iron, the back of the chip is soldered to the board via a ground plane. Think air tools and temps of 450c+ for over a minute. That's a massive amount of heat.
C
Topic: Bfl jalapeno failures and USB problems, SOLUTION FOUND - page 2. (Read 5457 times)
Update: Reflowing the FT232 chip did not help. To verify I heated each quarter with a soldering iron, then verified no shorts and good connections. Same thing, did not work. This is not a reflow problem.
Back to drawing board. Will swap out 232 chip this week.
Back to drawing board. Will swap out 232 chip this week.
Well I got the broken jally in the mail today and it is *exceptionally* interesting to see what's going on here.
The power supply was blown of course, no output, output caps exploded. However what is interesting is that although the case was factory sealed, after opening it I can see that the power wires to the jally were either soldered by a junkie, or were done by someone who hit the output caps as well. Lots of solder, crappy job, pics to follow. No wonder it blew.
More interesting: Plug it into a big power supply, it fires up, lights the two chips, fails to talk. No biggie, waiting on my ftdi chips from mouser. Ground plane is intact, not that. However VERY INTERESTING THING I HAVE SEEN BECAUSE I HAVE COOL POWER SUPPLIES:
My power supplies are regulated output, 2amps max up to 52 volts. I set it for 13v, 50ma to start with. Hooked up, voltage drops to 3 volts, power LED barely comes on. Crank the current, at 1.5a it starts to come alive, the jally starts testing, and the voltage drops sharply from 12.9 volts down to 5. Then the jally fast flashes the front led.
This is something people see. In this case, the power supply can't provide enough surge power. So I ran the current up to 2.2 amps which is max. Tried it out.
Voltage drops to 8 volts unit flashes. So what's happening here is interesting: The jally starts up, pulls enough power to start, the pulls the power supply *hard* to bring the chips online. If there isn't enough current it will fast flash fail.
Which means if you get that error on a Jalapeno, Single, or Little Single, then the problem is the power supply is too weak. Don't return the whole thing, get a man's power supply and go.
Very interesting confirmation here. Edit: This is confirmed by hooking same jally up to my 500 watt corsair which drops from 12.4 volts to 12.2. So what I have written is a flat fact.
C
The power supply was blown of course, no output, output caps exploded. However what is interesting is that although the case was factory sealed, after opening it I can see that the power wires to the jally were either soldered by a junkie, or were done by someone who hit the output caps as well. Lots of solder, crappy job, pics to follow. No wonder it blew.
More interesting: Plug it into a big power supply, it fires up, lights the two chips, fails to talk. No biggie, waiting on my ftdi chips from mouser. Ground plane is intact, not that. However VERY INTERESTING THING I HAVE SEEN BECAUSE I HAVE COOL POWER SUPPLIES:
My power supplies are regulated output, 2amps max up to 52 volts. I set it for 13v, 50ma to start with. Hooked up, voltage drops to 3 volts, power LED barely comes on. Crank the current, at 1.5a it starts to come alive, the jally starts testing, and the voltage drops sharply from 12.9 volts down to 5. Then the jally fast flashes the front led.
This is something people see. In this case, the power supply can't provide enough surge power. So I ran the current up to 2.2 amps which is max. Tried it out.
Voltage drops to 8 volts unit flashes. So what's happening here is interesting: The jally starts up, pulls enough power to start, the pulls the power supply *hard* to bring the chips online. If there isn't enough current it will fast flash fail.
Which means if you get that error on a Jalapeno, Single, or Little Single, then the problem is the power supply is too weak. Don't return the whole thing, get a man's power supply and go.
Very interesting confirmation here. Edit: This is confirmed by hooking same jally up to my 500 watt corsair which drops from 12.4 volts to 12.2. So what I have written is a flat fact.
C
Most modern power supplies have a single rail ( or multiple ) that you can easily upgrade. I changed mine out to 14G because I was powering 6 asicminer blades and the cables were getting HOT.
I'm trying to do what you're doing as well by adding more chips to the device ( eventually 6 ). I made my own adapters using 16 gauge wire, is there any reason you'd think that I wouldnt be able to power 4 chips per device?
The ATX power supply is 1200 watts, and the cables are 16 gauge. I will admit to have blowing a few breakers as well, but I cant see any reason it wouldnt be able to support 6 per device on a 16G cable.
The only issue is voltage drop; I noticed the wire gauge on the jally cable was 16 or so, and the wires from my cheap-o ATX were 18. Running it off 18g wire at 100 watt draw (it's hungry) caused a 1.5+ volt drop, and would shut down the PS.The ATX power supply is 1200 watts, and the cables are 16 gauge. I will admit to have blowing a few breakers as well, but I cant see any reason it wouldnt be able to support 6 per device on a 16G cable.
Tripling up the wires and shortening them dropped the voltage drop to .5 volts, which is much better. Running happily, but my noctura fan runs a bit slower, resulting in the bottom heat sink being back on the unit. Still looks good though.
C
I'm trying to do what you're doing as well by adding more chips to the device ( eventually 6 ). I made my own adapters using 16 gauge wire, is there any reason you'd think that I wouldnt be able to power 4 chips per device?
The ATX power supply is 1200 watts, and the cables are 16 gauge. I will admit to have blowing a few breakers as well, but I cant see any reason it wouldnt be able to support 6 per device on a 16G cable.
The ATX power supply is 1200 watts, and the cables are 16 gauge. I will admit to have blowing a few breakers as well, but I cant see any reason it wouldnt be able to support 6 per device on a 16G cable.
Nice picture; that solution should work for a normal jally.
C
C
I've blown 3 out of 4 of those power adapters, I've converted all my devices to just power from my ATX power supply. One of the power adapters was so bad, any time I would plug it up, I would blow a fuse at my circuit breaker. I don't trust those things at all.
https://i.imgur.com/GjDu2oC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GjDu2oC.jpg
Based on this post over at BFL I am virtually *positive* this is a ground fault. See:
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/jalapeno-single-sc-support/6812-jalapeno-bf0005g-trips-my-main-fuse-boards-residual-current-detectors-rcd.html
Note also that an isolator prevents the trip, I think it would save the jally.
C
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/jalapeno-single-sc-support/6812-jalapeno-bf0005g-trips-my-main-fuse-boards-residual-current-detectors-rcd.html
Note also that an isolator prevents the trip, I think it would save the jally.
C
Just did, takes a 16 gauge wire to really support the jally. Piggy power draw but mine has 5 chips.
Talking to two other people same problem. I hope I can get one of these to try fixing it.
C
Talking to two other people same problem. I hope I can get one of these to try fixing it.
C
Have Cablez make you PCI-E power plugs for your Jally.
Problem solved, and excellent service.
That way, you don't have to deal with cheap power bricks of any kind.
Problem solved, and excellent service.
That way, you don't have to deal with cheap power bricks of any kind.
Generally, a device should either be safety earthed o the chassis can't be energized, or be double insulated. In this case, it would be a double insulated device. They are designed so that no single fault can cause the mains voltage to be exposed. A good power supply should not fail this way even if it does die, it should just stop working. There is obviously something very wrong with these ones as they appear to be able to provide significant mains current at the output, and still function otherwise normally. It will be interesting to see what you find, do you have much experience with mains powered SMPS designs?
Bit. My expertise is in PFC charging systems and the good old fashioned "Use the motor as a big coil" charging systems on electric cars with 50-80kw power drive systems. Thus I look at the 1 volt supply and think "If I replaced that with 500amp IGBTs, I would be in shape" then realize that would be insane.But these problems are not unusual. When charging on 240 US you have to watch for ground faults that can cause 120 to appear in odd places. My guess is they have the neutral connected to 12 volt negative with a capacitor to improve the power factor. The PF on these supplies sucks rocks regardless; I can see that on my P3. That's why they get hot, that whole reactive power thing.
I just want to fix this so people will not send in their jallies for repair which will mean my jally will ship quicker.
C
I don't have one of the failed ones here, but I'm not so sure they're failing in a safe way. A power supply that fails in such a way that gets a strong shock through their arm by touching it is extremely dangerous. BFL needs to stop shipping those supplies, the reports of Jalapenos tripping home circuit breakers is disturbingly numerous.
Hopefully (and some bitcoin later) I will be having one come in here for review. I think it is fail-destructive, which is not good. But I think any power supply could do this, the problem is the ground loop back to the computer which is grounded equals the usual boom.C
I don't have one of the failed ones here, but I'm not so sure they're failing in a safe way. A power supply that fails in such a way that gets a strong shock through their arm by touching it is extremely dangerous. BFL needs to stop shipping those supplies, the reports of Jalapenos tripping home circuit breakers is disturbingly numerous.
Hopefully (and some bitcoin later) I will be having one come in here for review. I think it is fail-destructive, which is not good. But I think any power supply could do this, the problem is the ground loop back to the computer which is grounded equals the usual boom.C
I have at least one EU person who is seeing 120 volts on the ring of his jally power supply to ground. Either his picture is lying, or 120 volts is on the ground plane.
It's not the problem you think it is. There might well be 120V there, but there's probably insignificant current. If there were, the RCD or RCBO in the house's electrical system would trip.
If you read the thread that photo came from, this is exactly what happened. The PSU killed the circuit and it needed to be reset to bring all the various household appliances and things online. The problem was traced to the PSU. This measurement was taken when the PSU was powered on, plugged up to the Jalapeno but not to the host PC. Connecting it to the host PC caused the circuit to trip, and with a potential like that between the ground, I can see why!
So the PSU had a fault. ANY PSU can have a fault. I've had brand new, out-of-the-box Apple laptop chargers that have died, same with Dell, and HP.
But, my sentiment still stands, just because there's mains potential between the output ground and mains ground, doesn't mean there's a fault, or that there is a danger.
Quote
I had 2 Jallys arrive about 3 weeks ago. Last week one of them tripped the surge protector they were plugged in to. I reset the protector switch and as I plugged the second Jally back in, it tripped again. I suspected a failed power supply, so I disconnected the unit and took it to a friends house ( a licensed electrician,) to look it over.
When we plugged it in at his house, the unit ran fine. I didn't plug it into a computer at this point, nor did I have the USB cable plugged in. I took it home, plugged it in and ran it in the same state on the power board and it didn't trip. The unit booted normally so I plugged the USB cable into the rear of the Jally and picked up the other end to plug it into the computer and received a pretty solid DC shock from the metal end of the USB cable. I unplugged the Jally immediately, it did not feel to me like a little buzz from a faulty USB, the thing kicked like my car battery and it gave me pretty heavy muscle contractions up through my hand, arm and shoulder so I guessed I had the entire DC output of the power supply across the USB cable. I tested a different USB cable it it was live too.
I thought then I'd nailed the problem down, but the unit which seemed to be effected was the one with the better hashrate of the two, so I swapped the units over to be sure. The 1st Jally, the one that had been hashing away while I'd been testing the other faster one, connected to the 2nd Jally's power supply now had a hot USB plug. So somehow, the power supply is the source of the problem, but I can't for the life of me figure out how that works.
I've just read the Troubleshooting your Jally or SC post, but there's nothing in it that sounds anything like this. I did notice the part about posting screenshots with your request for an RMA, which presents a bit of a problem because I'm not about to knowingly jack 13v at 6 Amps into a USB port on the back of my computer. The weird thing is, both Jallys ran fine for a couple of weeks before one power supply went postal and started doing this.
Anyone else?
I don't have one of the failed ones here, but I'm not so sure they're failing in a safe way. A power supply that fails in such a way that gets a strong shock through their arm by touching it is extremely dangerous. BFL needs to stop shipping those supplies, the reports of Jalapenos tripping home circuit breakers is disturbingly numerous. When we plugged it in at his house, the unit ran fine. I didn't plug it into a computer at this point, nor did I have the USB cable plugged in. I took it home, plugged it in and ran it in the same state on the power board and it didn't trip. The unit booted normally so I plugged the USB cable into the rear of the Jally and picked up the other end to plug it into the computer and received a pretty solid DC shock from the metal end of the USB cable. I unplugged the Jally immediately, it did not feel to me like a little buzz from a faulty USB, the thing kicked like my car battery and it gave me pretty heavy muscle contractions up through my hand, arm and shoulder so I guessed I had the entire DC output of the power supply across the USB cable. I tested a different USB cable it it was live too.
I thought then I'd nailed the problem down, but the unit which seemed to be effected was the one with the better hashrate of the two, so I swapped the units over to be sure. The 1st Jally, the one that had been hashing away while I'd been testing the other faster one, connected to the 2nd Jally's power supply now had a hot USB plug. So somehow, the power supply is the source of the problem, but I can't for the life of me figure out how that works.
I've just read the Troubleshooting your Jally or SC post, but there's nothing in it that sounds anything like this. I did notice the part about posting screenshots with your request for an RMA, which presents a bit of a problem because I'm not about to knowingly jack 13v at 6 Amps into a USB port on the back of my computer. The weird thing is, both Jallys ran fine for a couple of weeks before one power supply went postal and started doing this.
Anyone else?
So the PSU had a fault. ANY PSU can have a fault. I've had brand new, out-of-the-box Apple laptop chargers that have died, same with Dell, and HP.
But, my sentiment still stands, just because there's mains potential between the output ground and mains ground, doesn't mean there's a fault, or that there is a danger.
Indeed. The problem isn't faulting, shit happens. The problem is the impact; does the device fail safe or fail destructive.But, my sentiment still stands, just because there's mains potential between the output ground and mains ground, doesn't mean there's a fault, or that there is a danger.
Fail safe would be if a fault shorts to a ground at the PSU, blowing a fuse (in the PSU) or a main breaker. If you have a grounded device and your wiring meets NEC (or whatever you use in your country that is not corrupt) your PSU dies and you get another one.
Fail destructive would be if a fault shorts, there is no ground, and the case goes hot (deadly), an exposed connector goes hot (painful), or the fault goes to ground through another device (destructive). In the US, BFL supplies can't fail deadly. Those same power supplies on a 240 volt hot hot ground system would fail destructive.
This thread is for information, not judgement. Given that bitcoin mining is on bitcoin time, and difficulty increases, it might be better to spend $40 on a power supply and not be down for a month than to risk failure and be down for a month on an RMA.
As I like to say in Bitcoin world, do the math :-)
C
I have at least one EU person who is seeing 120 volts on the ring of his jally power supply to ground. Either his picture is lying, or 120 volts is on the ground plane.
It's not the problem you think it is. There might well be 120V there, but there's probably insignificant current. If there were, the RCD or RCBO in the house's electrical system would trip.
If you read the thread that photo came from, this is exactly what happened. The PSU killed the circuit and it needed to be reset to bring all the various household appliances and things online. The problem was traced to the PSU. This measurement was taken when the PSU was powered on, plugged up to the Jalapeno but not to the host PC. Connecting it to the host PC caused the circuit to trip, and with a potential like that between the ground, I can see why!
So the PSU had a fault. ANY PSU can have a fault. I've had brand new, out-of-the-box Apple laptop chargers that have died, same with Dell, and HP.
But, my sentiment still stands, just because there's mains potential between the output ground and mains ground, doesn't mean there's a fault, or that there is a danger.
I have at least one EU person who is seeing 120 volts on the ring of his jally power supply to ground. Either his picture is lying, or 120 volts is on the ground plane.
It's not the problem you think it is. There might well be 120V there, but there's probably insignificant current. If there were, the RCD or RCBO in the house's electrical system would trip.
If you read the thread that photo came from, this is exactly what happened. The PSU killed the circuit and it needed to be reset to bring all the various household appliances and things online. The problem was traced to the PSU. This measurement was taken when the PSU was powered on, plugged up to the Jalapeno but not to the host PC. Connecting it to the host PC caused the circuit to trip, and with a potential like that between the ground, I can see why!
I have at least one EU person who is seeing 120 volts on the ring of his jally power supply to ground. Either his picture is lying, or 120 volts is on the ground plane.
It's not the problem you think it is. There might well be 120V there, but there's probably insignificant current. If there were, the RCD or RCBO in the house's electrical system would trip.
Agreed. I just checked some threads at BFL, and there are a number of people with the same problem. All seem to be in the Europlug zones.
Now BFL is sending out RMAs and such, they're fine there and meeting their terms of support which is good. But if there is something that can prevent this from happening so you're not down for weeks, I would think some BFL buyers might be interested.
C
Now BFL is sending out RMAs and such, they're fine there and meeting their terms of support which is good. But if there is something that can prevent this from happening so you're not down for weeks, I would think some BFL buyers might be interested.
C
Jump to: