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Topic: BFL says ALL SALES FINAL - page 2. (Read 4784 times)

sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
March 14, 2013, 09:40:09 PM
#21
You need not be a lawyer to recognize that their policy is a violation of consumer protection laws in the US. It may be safer for BFL to hold investor pre-order funds hostage, but that doesn't supersede FTC prompt delivery regulations. Regulations which they've been in violation of for months already.

Hey, remember the old "orders will be refundable after 12/31/2012 if we fail to deliver" language? Man, those were the days! 

BFL being in violation of FTC prompt delivery regulations helps customers how?  They can't be directed to deliver a product which doesn't exist.  They can be directed to give refunds but to date they've been doing that voluntarily anyway.  They can likely be fined, but that doesn't directly benefit customers (administrative penalties generally don't).

BFL would argue that failure to request a refund amounted to consent by the customers to the delay.  Customers would argue that they failed to cancel because BFL repeatedly led them to believe that delivery was imminent.

When dealing with regulatory agencies, one of the first questions you need to ask is what you want them to do?

Don't care. Smiley In fact I don't think much more of the FTC than I do the CFTC or even BFL for that matter. We all know what they've done. We all know how much they've cost people with their bs. We all know the character of the execs at BFL. How many people sold their FPGAs in anticipation of BFL's HONEST ABE October shipping schedule? GPU farms? They've cost a lot of people some serious change with their scammy shell games, deceptive marketing ploys, and outright lies.

It's not my problem, I never ordered from them, and I sure ain't gonna run and tell daddy on them, but I also refuse to gloss over the slimy scammy nature of what these con men have done.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
March 14, 2013, 08:40:03 PM
#19
You need not be a lawyer to recognize that their policy is a violation of consumer protection laws in the US. It may be safer for BFL to hold investor pre-order funds hostage, but that doesn't supersede FTC prompt delivery regulations. Regulations which they've been in violation of for months already.

Hey, remember the old "orders will be refundable after 12/31/2012 if we fail to deliver" language? Man, those were the days! 

BFL being in violation of FTC prompt delivery regulations helps customers how?  They can't be directed to deliver a product which doesn't exist.  They can be directed to give refunds but to date they've been doing that voluntarily anyway.  They can likely be fined, but that doesn't directly benefit customers (administrative penalties generally don't).

BFL would argue that failure to request a refund amounted to consent by the customers to the delay.  Customers would argue that they failed to cancel because BFL repeatedly led them to believe that delivery was imminent.

When dealing with regulatory agencies, one of the first questions you need to ask is what you want them to do?  
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1193
March 14, 2013, 08:37:57 PM
#18
Wait I just read it lol.

It says they will be issuing refunds after Jan 1st. So what changed?

Seems the pre-order funds are running low. Gotta stop the refunds asap.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
March 14, 2013, 08:33:18 PM
#17
Wait I just read it lol.

It says they will be issuing refunds after Jan 1st. So what changed?
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
March 14, 2013, 07:46:32 PM
#16
You need not be a lawyer to recognize that their policy is a violation of consumer protection laws in the US. It may be safer for BFL to hold investor pre-order funds hostage, but that doesn't supersede FTC prompt delivery regulations. Regulations which they've been in violation of for months already.

Hey, remember the old "orders will be refundable after 12/31/2012 if we fail to deliver" language? Man, those were the days! 
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
March 14, 2013, 06:11:12 PM
#15
This had to come.  Once they have a working product, new sales are pretty much back orders rather than pre-orders.  Should "two months or more" blow out to 6 months, it's doubtful consumer protection laws would be on the side of BFL, though.
I do not think they would be on bfl's side either
 
As of today there FAQ still says this which some fuel for that fire.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
March 14, 2013, 05:45:03 PM
#14
Quote
"It's being there for a while now (since the site redesign). They might still refund you if you ask."

No it hasn't, the evidence of that is on the thread "BFL Fuck Us Over Again"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.260

It was added when they changed the delivery schedule from mid Feb to mid March and that was done today/yesterday.

It does translate as "no refunds".

For those that don't know they built a prototype board and tested it (yesterday/day before), didn't say how it went (despite asking) but they did do a poll of how people would feel if there were less than 4/8 chips but reached MH/s targets, then Luke-Jr was put on a flight over there at BFLs expense.

Make of all that what you will.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
March 14, 2013, 05:28:33 PM
#13
cash flow problems maybe ?

THIS. They can't afford to have TOO MANY CUSTOMERS REQUEST REFUNDS. Their little bubble they created would pop.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
March 14, 2013, 05:26:16 PM
#12
cash flow problems maybe ?

They're definitely going to run into cash flow problems at some point if the gap between payment and delivery doesn't close significantly.  A combination of mass cancellations and few new orders would hurt them.  Interestingly, their website still says "pre-order now" so they're not in a great position to play the "all sales are final" card.
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
March 14, 2013, 05:23:09 PM
#11
It's being there for a while now (since the site redesign). They might still refund you if you ask.
newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
March 14, 2013, 05:20:25 PM
#10
cash flow problems maybe ?
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
March 14, 2013, 05:17:30 PM
#9
This had to come.  Once they have a working product, new sales are pretty much back orders rather than pre-orders.  Should "two months or more" blow out to 6 months, it's doubtful consumer protection laws would be on the side of BFL, though.

Once they commit to their bulk order, they don't want people cancelling their orders if some new player enters they market who can supply ASICs off the shelf.  While that makes a lot of business sense, "two months or more" is way too vague and I don't think anyone trusts BFL to get on top of their delivery times any time soon - so this may actually discourage new orders as people envisage the nightmare of ordering now and being unable to cancel their orders even if they haven't been fulfilled in 6 months.

Recent communications from Jody to customers requesting refunds have indicated that their new attitude is "all sales are final but we will still consider refund requests on an individual basis".  This is a major shift away from her previous "we understand some of you may not be able to wait - drop us a line if you want a refund" position.  

That said, it's clear that quite a lot of people have relied on the previous refund policy as some kind of hedge and were planning on cancelling their BFL orders if they could acquire ASICs from someone else sooner or if the hash rate rose "too much" before they received their ASICs.  BFL should probably give people with old orders one last chance to cancel before instituting a harsher refund policy and make the no-refund period explicit.

I dont see a working product. Just pictures and boxes of fans. More hot air.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
March 14, 2013, 05:11:15 PM
#8
FUCK BFL!

 Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
March 14, 2013, 05:10:42 PM
#7
This had to come.  Once they have a working product, new sales are pretty much back orders rather than pre-orders.  Should "two months or more" blow out to 6 months, it's doubtful consumer protection laws would be on the side of BFL, though.

Once they commit to their bulk order, they don't want people cancelling their orders if some new player enters they market who can supply ASICs off the shelf.  While that makes a lot of business sense, "two months or more" is way too vague and I don't think anyone trusts BFL to get on top of their delivery times any time soon - so this may actually discourage new orders as people envisage the nightmare of ordering now and being unable to cancel their orders even if they haven't been fulfilled in 6 months.

Recent communications from Jody to customers requesting refunds have indicated that their new attitude is "all sales are final but we will still consider refund requests on an individual basis".  This is a major shift away from her previous "we understand some of you may not be able to wait - drop us a line if you want a refund" position.  

That said, it's clear that quite a lot of people have relied on the previous refund policy as some kind of hedge and were planning on cancelling their BFL orders if they could acquire ASICs from someone else sooner or if the hash rate rose "too much" before they received their ASICs.  BFL should probably give people with old orders one last chance to cancel before instituting a harsher refund policy and make the no-refund period explicit.
legendary
Activity: 1121
Merit: 1003
March 14, 2013, 05:07:45 PM
#6
I asked for a refund about a week ago and was given it. A couple days later via my PayPal account. Granted I placed the order in February 2013.
Regards
Brian
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
March 14, 2013, 04:57:32 PM
#5
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
March 14, 2013, 04:55:55 PM
#4
SO is it true if you order now ALL SALES ARE FINAL??
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
March 14, 2013, 04:43:29 PM
#3
The chips are fine.
hero member
Activity: 1484
Merit: 500
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