Topic: Biden resurrects 30% crypto mining tax in new budget proposal - page 3. (Read 1267 times)

30% tax is too much for crypto mining because the mining speed is very low now so if a miner pays 30% tax to the government on electricity bill and other processing machine cost then I don't know if that miner can make profit or not.  I have never mined so I don't know much about the mining rate.  So I can't make an accurate estimate of how much profit a miner would have if he paid 30% of his mining tax to the government.

Yet another proposal thread being portrayed like it will definitely become a law in the future. Personally, I don't think this particular proposal will be approved though we never know.

Also, it's hilarious seeing naive people think that Trump would magically care about crypto investors. Most government heads will always try their best to suppress the power of crypto.

I would guess that we are talking about taxing because no matter what you are spending your money on, remember that there will always be government need for more money, and they will always use their taxing power to get that money from you. They do not like poor people because they can't tax them, in fact they hate welfare people even more because not only they can't tax them but also they have to give their taxes to the poor.

They love rich people though, they take their money directly into their own pockets, and not even tax them, that way the rich pay less taxes, and the politicians get richer. So, if you want them to not tax the mining companies, just bribe them, that way instead of paying a collective 100 million more dollars on tax, pay 50 million in bribery and you will be fine.

Read this again:

The tax would also apply to crypto mining firms that generate their own electricity.


no that's not what it was written for. the government wants to reduce mining activity and the harms that go along with it be they environmental or something else.
that's what the revenue proposal says.

no one is criticising miners. but i think a reasonable concern is that bitcoin miners drive up electricity costs for retail power company customers. and i am sure they don't appreciate it...

What those 14% are going to understand is that the value of their holdings increase by 500% under Biden.

Obviously there are a lot of people who will simply hate Biden for the typical reasons of polarization these days, but if all you care about is your crypto going up in price, Biden is your man.

Comparism of Uber drivers and miners doesn't make sense because their gross revenue is unmatch, not even close and the energy consumption isn't the same. The last time I check about the US tax is base on the amount you earn, if you earn small amount the government will likely charge you less and if you earned high amount, you are likely to get high tax because even with amenities, the reach tend to get special treatment when it comes to allocation of these amenities.

The Comparism should have been between the stock investors and the miners and when you check what stock and other investments tax charges the US government collect from these people, it's likely the same with miners though it's less for minor investors. The US is known for heavy taxing and that's why a lot of investors are running from the country, some of her citizens don't bring their money back to the country because of these taxes.

I have already explained it!
You are not purchasing and you are not owning an energy generation plant!
Also, I've quoted the proposal not the article of a biased about the proposal!

That thing was written to close a loophole that all big players use, go to any of those and check their reports, mara, riot , core and you will see they are using grid plus private generation, but that private generation is from a powerplant that also resells excess energy to the grid.

I just love how a miner has to talk sense into some guys that don't even mine but are outraged by some headlines!

I can give you the perfect example why this whole mess started for it just look for Greenridge, a powerplant owned by atlas llc, it turned from a powerplant into a power plant plus bitcoin miner, then suddenly the company that owned just an electricity generation powerplant in NY, started buying datacenters in texas! You end up with electricity produced in NY that suddenly sells extra energy when the grip is at its limit in Texas  , but they are just a bitcoin miner, and they use their electricity for private stuff, but they also sell it...

Want another example:
Good, look at how riot cashed in millions:


Yeah and in Theory 20% of Indians own crypto and 25% of Nigerians do so, yet I haven't seen one protest in the streets why they are enforcing bans on exchanges and ip bans.

If 14% that's 40 million let's say Americans own crypto 39 million of them don't even care about Bitcoin being pos of pow, they care about the numbers, just think for a moment, with 400k transactions a day it would take 100 days just for one tx per capita if the blockchain would be dedicated to Americans only.

Nothing will happen, and nobody is going to march in the streets for the miners!
Aso, another reality check, I'm fed up with the shit people throw at miners here, that we manipulate the fees, that we mine ordinals, that we dump coins, all that crap, I can't wait for the same people that accused miners of everything taking their banners and demanding that miners in the us would need protection from extra taxation. I have my popcorn ready!

You're just saying that because there's no better or alternative option, and with how the things are run in the US government, I think that a businessman is the right person to do the thing, maybe if people start electing the right people and not leaving any of them behind when it matters the most, maybe we would see something different and we'd see that the option wouldn't be just Trump or Biden and Old Joe Biden really needs to retire, there's no way that I'd want an old man that probably doesn't know how to use his email to be running a country that for better or worse, would be a burden for the next generation.

Man, they're taking a bit of a slow stroll in increasing the debt ceiling it seems that they're planning to do this kind of thing, that's probably the only reason that I can think of why they're considering reopening this regulation on bitcoin miners, no way that they've planned this through though, that's probably the most appropriate thing to say, "God help us all!"

If Biden wants to lose the election this a great way to do it. 14% of Americans own crypto, with closer to 20% in states like California.

That is a significant voting block with crypto being a major topic of discussion in the presidential debates. The last thing Americans need are more taxes.

So sick of Biden. That is all he is good for is raising taxes on everyday working people.

the problem is, such a small percentage of people are going to be affected by this law in the usa that the voice of the miners is going to be so small as to be negligible. on the other hand, lets say biden was trying to tax uber/lyft drivers an additional 30% on their electricity use of their electric car well then that would be a different story. the drivers would raise a huge stink about that and a bazillion journalists would be writing stories on it like this was the gravest injustice ever known to man...

Basically they're trying to tax the Sun, which provides free energy for billions of years.

That's stupid beyond belief and whoever accepts it as the status quo deserves the worst as I said...

30% of miners' electricity cost is not small.

I wish the people of America good luck 

If all you do is mine Bitcoin as a source of income, there is still enough time now to reconsider another country, but God has mercy on your soul if you are the type who loves his or her country.

The best time to mine Bitcoin is now and the value is still very good enough, after the coming halving the reward will be cut in  half, and maybe in a year and half, we will be in another bear market? It will be hard to keep mining when your electricity is making it harder and now taxes too.

His capital gains tax increases are pretty crazy as well. This is definitely something to keep an eye on. A lot of Bitcoin holders could be wise to sell in December if he is really going to more than double the capital gains tax. I don’t think he will and even if he did I think Trump will get in and reverse all Biden’s craziness. Still something to watch.

no one claimed that. but i think he was saying that decentralization would be a side affect of them doing that. which does kind of make sense if it results in an exodus of miners from the usa but what is decentralization really based on? geographical location or controlling party? i would say its the latter more than the former.

i'm glad you agree with me that this would hurt the little guy more than the big guy. mom and pop miners will really be hit hard. i don't see how they would be able to survive.

yeah just on the initial purchase but not on the amount of electricity you generate every month. can you imagine if the government did THAT? charging you for any electricity you use no matter what it was for. adding on a 30% tax for that? why not? they're trying to do it for mining.

because society is alot more complicated than it used to be. private companies operate prison facilities and stuff like that.

rebels don't exist anymore. unless they are in jail. for a long time.

that's easy to say but society in the usa is too fragmented and complex to think or expect that anyone is going to organize and go up against the us government even on a city level to say nothing of federal. if the entire state of texas can't run the border down south like they want to what makes you think you can do anything you want to?

https://www.texastribune.org/2024/01/22/texas-border-supreme-court-immigration/

Some people are habitual contrarians... it's not just Franky who enjoys doing this.

It's asinine to claim that the US government imposes taxes to promote "decentralization" (next thing they're gonna tell you is China did the same back in May 2021 ), only an IQ 50 person would believe that. You make a good point about wholesale vs retail electricity prices/taxes.

Regarding taxes, let's keep in mind that every solar panel sold in the market requires you to pay sales tax/VAT, right?

I'll never understand why modern people say "that's just the way the system works, man, nothing I can do about it".

Need I remind you what ignited the American Revolution against Great Britain? Yeah, it was a tax issue and people didn't just ignore it... you could call them "tax evaders", I prefer to call them rebels.

My point is, you decide to bend over and take it in the ass, you deserve the worst behavior from the feds.

Stop being a lapdog and start being a wolf again, like your ancestors were.

explain this statement:

The tax would also apply to crypto mining firms that generate their own electricity.

put up solar panels to run your mine, you pay the tax. because you're generating your own electricity. that's what it says to me.

that's not a bright side for the small guy. that kind of puts the small guy at a huge disadvantage. with this tax it makes it an even bigger one since they are getting taxed on 30% of 11 cent per kwh rather than just 2.5. so if you're for centralizing hash power in big mining farms then i guess you support this legislation.  

maybe that is a bright side but putting small miners out of business is not one of them. goodbye to small miners if this thing passes either that or they become criminals for doing tax evasion. there shoud be alot of antminers being dumped on ebay if this thing passes.

The misunderstanding is in the companies that produce or buy it off-gird, the tax will be aimed at the companies that do that off-gird but are not limiting their production to the said mine, otherwise you would have nothing to tax since most large farms are directly connected to huge powerplants that have a direct contact with them. That's why the term particular is here:
" for example by using the output of a particular electricity generating plant,"

Also , a lot ignore the other thing, not only it's a proposal, but:

So till 2025, they will only pay 10%, again, considering the deals they have and the buy-back schemes, not a single one will leave.
They will pay up and that's that, compared to the halving a 10% on electricity will be nothing.

And look at the bright side, that might be a moment hobby miners might have a chance, how can a small guy compete with a huge farm that buys electricity at 2.5 cents per kwh and gets a 10-20% discount on buying MQO of 100 units?
And another bright side, wasn't everyone concerned that the US might gain a majority in the total hash rate (juts like China) and that it was bad for decentralization? Forced decentralization by everyone fleeing everywhere!

the only person misunderstanding it seems to be you.

The tax would also apply to crypto mining firms that generate their own electricity.

https://www.fxstreet.com/cryptocurrencies/news/biden-resurrects-30-crypto-mining-tax-in-new-budget-proposal-202403121228


that's a separate thing but the would still have to pay too:

Companies that produce or acquire power “off-grid” would also need to pay a 30% tax on the estimated costs of their electricity bills.

or are you saying the article i linked to is wrong?

well if that's the case then the tax should be even higher as they could surely handle it.


no they really can't. not like they can with power usage.

then modify the proof of stake protocol so that everyone has an equal chance of being a validator.

And employers have 250x more money to pay them (etc.). Profits are at all-time highs right now, even adjusted for inflation. Our standard of living is the highest it's ever been.

Absolute inflation numbers are meaningless. What helps businesses is relative price stability, and for the past 40 years, with a break for a 100 year black swan even event with the pandemic, prices in the US have been very stable.

And the USA has succeeded through the pandemic better than almost any other country.


No, prices have not "doubled". Not even close.

Unless you watch the partisan media, which would try to focus on one particular product in the market that has gone up in price due to some anomaly. If you look at a complicated product like a new car, and compare the same car for sale now and five years ago, prices have gone up perhaps 10% (even though the quality is marginally improved as well, reducing the long-term cost of the asset).

We sadly seem to have an entire political class who think its in our best interest that the American economy is terrible so they will win the next election. People should resist partisan rhetoric and look at the numbers--and their own outlook--themselves.

It's not a tax on business. It's a tax on electricity used if you buy it!
There was a misunderstanding in it that you will pay even if you generate it yourself but that off-grid purchase definition is only when you buy it from another operator, in fact just how many minign farms are doing right now, by having a private offgrid contract with a powerplant.

And if anyone thinks this will be a disaster for mining in the US, those guys pay between 2- and 3 cents per kwh, this 30% increase would lead them to 4 cents per kwh at most, do you think they will pack their bags and go...where? Cause that would still be insanely cheaper compared to half of the world.
So they will simply stay put, pay up, or raise money to buy their own power source that will exclude them from the tax.