Big Block support at 50% - page 5. | Bitcointalksearch.org

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: pooya87 on April 21, 2017, 10:59:20 PM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 21, 2017, 10:47:06 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on April 21, 2017, 10:32:54 PM

can someone fill me in on how this "support" is at 50% while statistics are only showing thirty something as before.

and while we are on it when did BIP100 come out! it shows 2015! did they suddenly decide on signalling it after 2 years? and a TL;DR would be great.

Last 1000 blocks has big blocks at 40.2%
Last 24 hours Big Blocks are at 50.7%

ok so with that logic miners have stopped signalling for big blocks now!
Last 1000 blocks has big blocks at 40.2% -> 39.8%
Last 24 hours Big Blocks are at 50.7% -> 47.9%

You're only counting BU. XT and Classic are also for big blocks.

-ck

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Ruu \o/

Quote from: pooya87 on April 21, 2017, 10:32:54 PM

and while we are on it when did BIP100 come out! it shows 2015! did they suddenly decide on signalling it after 2 years? and a TL;DR would be great.

BIP 100 came and went two years ago from core as an idea. For a while there it had over 75% pool support, but no code was ever written for it. It simply allowed pools to vote on what the block size was and core decided it was a bad idea to give 100% of the power to the miners to choose... turns out that probably wasn't such a bad thing to not support it.

Hydrogen

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Has anyone figured out how much transaction speed could increase (theoretically) with bigger blocks.

I still think its a bad idea to support any block size without knowing potential gains in terms of transaction speed.

One simple fact is bitcoin will never compete with credit cards or execute thousands of transactions per second no matter how much block size is increased.

pooya87

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Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 21, 2017, 10:47:06 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on April 21, 2017, 10:32:54 PM

can someone fill me in on how this "support" is at 50% while statistics are only showing thirty something as before.

and while we are on it when did BIP100 come out! it shows 2015! did they suddenly decide on signalling it after 2 years? and a TL;DR would be great.

Last 1000 blocks has big blocks at 40.2%
Last 24 hours Big Blocks are at 50.7%

ok so with that logic miners have stopped signalling for big blocks now!
Last 1000 blocks has big blocks at 40.2% -> 39.8%
Last 24 hours Big Blocks are at 50.7% -> 47.9%

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: pooya87 on April 21, 2017, 10:32:54 PM

can someone fill me in on how this "support" is at 50% while statistics are only showing thirty something as before.

and while we are on it when did BIP100 come out! it shows 2015! did they suddenly decide on signalling it after 2 years? and a TL;DR would be great.

Last 1000 blocks has big blocks at 40.2%
Last 24 hours Big Blocks are at 50.7%

pooya87

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can someone fill me in on how this "support" is at 50% while statistics are only showing thirty something as before.

and while we are on it when did BIP100 come out! it shows 2015! did they suddenly decide on signalling it after 2 years? and a TL;DR would be great.

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: Sadlife on April 21, 2017, 10:21:07 PM

Jihan said "he will activate BU if it reaches 51%"
Is he really so desperate to achieve his centralized blockchain but if he activates it that would be bad for bitcoin and maybe it will turn all against him. If some miners change their minds again and those that is undecided chose Segwit instead, this is just complete chaos.

LOL..how does one "activate" BU??? They are already running the client if that's what you mean.

Bigger blocks can be mined at any moment, and big blockers could destroy the SegWit chain in hours, not days. So don't worry about a forked chain because BitFury isn't going to sit there trying to mine 1MB blocks at the same difficulty while over 50% of hashing power is carrying on as normal. Even if SegWitters end up with 40%, that means blocks would take over 20 mins on average. You'd have more than twice as many transactions for the same 1MB block. Unconfirmed TXs would spiral out of control and the price of "Core coins" would tank immediately. And that situation assumes that none of the majority miners don't attack the SegWit chain. You guys are in a lose-lose situation.

Understand that the ONLY reason big blocks aren't being mined yet is because they are giving users time to figure out what's going on and pick new clients to accept bigger blocks.

Sadlife

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Jihan said "he will activate BU if it reaches 51%"
Is he really so desperate to achieve his centralized blockchain but if he activates it that would be bad for bitcoin and maybe it will turn all against him. If some miners change their minds again and those that is undecided chose Segwit instead, this is just complete chaos.

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: felipehermanns on April 21, 2017, 06:35:38 PM

This BUg thing is getting boring. This guys are a joke. R/BTC is just trash talk impossible to read...

Btw while their hashrate go up their nodes still going down. Nice work jihad wu and roger suckver

Long term growth of big block nodes is steady upwards. You're looking at a downtrend from a recent spike, that was probably Blockstream doing it just so their trolls could make your argument.

BU and Classic have about 12% of all nodes as of now. Getting people to use alt clients is a lot harder than just having them upgrade. The fact that more than 1 out of 10 users has given up on core is very telling. At least it should be, but there is a massive troll campaign to try to fool people otherwise.

SegWit is a lost cause when this many people and this many miners are dead set against it. Face it bankers, you have failed again at stopping bitcoin.

franky1

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Quote from: -ck on April 21, 2017, 05:53:46 PM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 21, 2017, 05:46:10 PM

How is the SegWit chain going to survive at significantly less than 50% hashpower when they can only mine 1MB blocks? Transactions will grind to a halt and miners will start leaving making it only worse.

That's your judgement, and that's fine. A segwit based main chain would make the blocks up to 4MB with segwit transactions

based on actual transaction data of real use cases expect at best 2.1mb..

that is if 100% of users use segwit keys to get 2.1mb of data for ~7tx/s only IF everyone does it.
yet since 2009 there has been the 'expectation' that bitcoin 1mb would have got 7tx/s yet in 8 years never achieved it.

so even after 8 years of averaging maybe 3.5tx/s all segwit is offering is a half gesture no guarantee best expectation of... 7tx/s

but spammers will still use native keys to spam so even if 99% convert to segwit. it only takes a couple people to spam the block with native keys to show no real visible difference.

dont you get it yet. after 8 years the expectation is still not even a guarantee of 7tx/s

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

I think its morally justified if the majority attacks the minority chain in order to make sure there is only one Bitcoin,

These attacks would only need to be temporary. If, after things settle down, the minority wants to do segwitCoin (and not call it Bitcoin), that's fine.

Some people might think its bad for me to say this, but I feel that stonewalling the blocksize
increase was something that NEVER should have happen and was a covert attack on Bitcoin.

digaran

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🖤😏

Last time I checked they only had 35% of total hashrate, now you are telling me they have 50% and with the numbers given by the OP it only counts 85.5% of the network, don't you think if they try to go with 51% hard fork what happens if those 15% undecided miners start fighting them?

Why can't they understand the simple fact? any hard fork without 95% support from miners will cause chain splits and that's bad for bitcoin and their own business.

This is what happens when one person gets powerful just like all other dictatorships, but we all know what happens to them at the end don't we?

felipehermanns

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This BUg thing is getting boring. This guys are a joke. R/BTC is just trash talk impossible to read...

Btw while their hashrate go up their nodes still going down. Nice work jihad wu and roger suckver

-ck

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Ruu \o/

Quote from: 1Referee on April 21, 2017, 06:07:43 PM

Quote from: -ck on April 21, 2017, 05:53:46 PM

Jihan threatened to fork at 51% anyway but we'll see...

Jihan is nothing more than a keyboard warrior. Everyone knows that allowing a fork to initiate at 51% comes with risks being far too high. I don't believe he will potentially jeopardise his operations just to gamble on a positive outcome. If he's (or they with RV added) ever going to initiate a fork, he (they) will likely wait till 65-70% is reached. At least, that would make a whole lot more sense.

I agree. His threat was just that, a threat. If he was serious he would have put all his hashrate on BU anyway, and as it stands all he's doing is signalling BU in his coinbase; he is not actually running BU nodes. I've always suspected his BU threat was just a bargaining point after UASF was mentioned but now he's mined himself into a corner and is persisting with something he probably never intended to do. We'll see what he really does should the hashrate climb further and see if he persists with forking into a BU world just out of stubbornness now.

Quote from: European Central Bank on April 21, 2017, 06:09:01 PM

it's big blocks for today only. let's review it again if it stays up there for a solid week or two. i really don't understand why the 8mb blockers are still bothering.

Agreed too, but let the bigblockers have their day for today. Let them fap to variance.

European Central Bank

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it's big blocks for today only. let's review it again if it stays up there for a solid week or two. i really don't understand why the 8mb blockers are still bothering.

1Referee

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Quote from: -ck on April 21, 2017, 05:53:46 PM

Jihan threatened to fork at 51% anyway but we'll see...

Jihan is nothing more than a keyboard warrior. Everyone knows that allowing a fork to initiate at 51% comes with risks being far too high. I don't believe he will potentially jeopardise his operations just to gamble on a positive outcome. If he's (or they with RV added) ever going to initiate a fork, he (they) will likely wait till 65-70% is reached. At least, that would make a whole lot more sense.

-ck

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Ruu \o/

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 21, 2017, 05:46:10 PM

How is the SegWit chain going to survive at significantly less than 50% hashpower when they can only mine 1MB blocks? Transactions will grind to a halt and miners will start leaving making it only worse.

That's your judgement, and that's fine. A segwit based main chain would make the blocks up to 4MB with segwit transactions so I don't see how that's the rate limiting thing for a "minority" chain, and even with 25% of the current hashrate, a minority chain would be about 400PH. Jihan threatened to fork at 51% anyway but we'll see... He could just do it now, since only 1 of 4 of his pools are advertising BU - switching all of them would put it significantly >51%

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: -ck on April 21, 2017, 05:41:01 PM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 21, 2017, 05:36:59 PM

Quote from: -ck on April 21, 2017, 05:35:01 PM

Great, 1% more and then they can fork off and see where the fork's support takes them...

I think miners are waiting for some more nodes to upgrade to new clients rather than forcing them/throwing them into confusion.

Point is, the battle is already won. Blockstream/SegWit miners can't survive on the minority chain. Not even for a day.

I don't know what you're talking about "cannot survive" - the chains will be completely separate and run in their own directions should it happen. Jihan said he wanted people to "attack" the minority chain (which is a fucking awful approach and speaks volumes) but that would mean he needs as much hashrate directed towards attacking it as he does mining BU blocks and no such hashrate is spare to do that. So unless BU support ends up being 90% leaving only a 10% core chain, then there won't be enough spare hashrate to throw at killing off the forked minority sized chain. There is no precedent saying which chain the economy will follow, but the majority have expressed that they will follow segwit...

Attack the minority chain? pfft, why bother?

How is the SegWit chain going to survive at significantly less than 50% hashpower when they can only mine 1MB blocks? Transactions will grind to a halt and miners will start leaving making it only worse.

-ck

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Ruu \o/

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 21, 2017, 05:36:59 PM

Quote from: -ck on April 21, 2017, 05:35:01 PM

Great, 1% more and then they can fork off and see where the fork's support takes them...

I think miners are waiting for some more nodes to upgrade to new clients rather than forcing them/throwing them into confusion.

Point is, the battle is already won. Blockstream/SegWit miners can't survive on the minority chain. Not even for a day.

I don't know what you're talking about "cannot survive" - the chains will be completely separate and run in their own directions should it happen. Jihan said he wanted people to "attack" the minority chain (which is a fucking awful approach and speaks volumes) but that would mean he needs as much hashrate directed towards attacking it as he does mining BU blocks and no such hashrate is spare to do that. So unless BU support ends up being 90% leaving only a 10% core chain, then there won't be enough spare hashrate to throw at killing off the forked minority sized chain. There is no precedent saying which chain the economy will follow, but the majority have expressed that they will follow segwit...

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: -ck on April 21, 2017, 05:35:01 PM

Great, 1% more and then they can fork off and see where the fork's support takes them...

I think miners are waiting for some more nodes to upgrade to new clients rather than forcing them/throwing them into confusion.

Point is, the battle is already won. Blockstream/SegWit miners can't survive on the minority chain. Not even for a day.

Topic: Big Block support at 50% - page 5. (Read 4291 times)