Topic: Big Misconception of Bitcoin's Transaction Irreversibility. Bill Gates read this (Read 1433 times)

No, the transaction is always irreversible. In each case no one is able to reverse it (/except double spend).

Can't see the video, strongly wonder how this can be implemented in bitcoin network

Yes, I think a lot of the concerns people think they have about Bitcoin are actually resolvable with higher level layer software implementations that just haven't been coded yet. It's all coming.

If PayPal or Visa can do it, Bitcoin can do it better.

Good job! Thanks

Nicely explained. That should clear up a lot of doubts people are having about bitcoin. It actually relates to how we can utilize it. Personally if transaction were to be reversible, I wouldn't be bothered about bitcoin at all.

Done, this is the tweet : https://twitter.com/Pangu_exe/status/566122732325445634   If you want please retweet it (I hope he will watch the video).

^^^ Indeed... I was hoping they would of called him to the witness stand during the SR/DPR case. Andreas would of pulled some Jedi mind tricks on the jury and judge for sure. Apparently they didn't let him testify because he isn't a qualified expert.

I am truly amazed at how Andreas is able to so elegantly articulate complex thoughts into words and he does it on the spot, live! He doesn't even stutter or take time to think about it. It just flows out like bitcoin butter. He's truly gifted at public speaking.

Andreas is such a great ambassador for Bitcoin, his way of explaining it's merits is almost always applaudable.

The problem is that if transactions were reversible this would allow third parties (bad guys = government) control over the protocol.

It is the same as redlisting/blacklisting or whatever

It would be impossible to own reversible cryptocurrency, just like it is impossible to own bank deposits or anything else that is controllable by third parties.  

Accounting 101 - Transaction ledger is not reversable HOWEVER the actual transactions are easily "reversable" in both credit cards and checks, thats the problem with fiat systems.

I can easily go to Aeropostale, write a check for a transaction and do 1 of 2 things, cancel the check before it clears, or just take all the money out of my account so it bounces and either way they do not get paid for the transaction.

With Bitcoin this would be impossible, the reason it is not more widely accepted by big wigs is very simple they can not get out of a transaction, the only people who really care about transaction reversals are the ones who use them on a monthly basis to get something and not have to pay for it if they dont like or even if they simply dont want to pay for it.

REALITY 101- For businesses Bitcoin  is the way to go,

1. no % of your transactions paid to the credit card companies to use their method of payment.
1A. ask yourself why should you pay VISA 2% of your transactions to use their method of payment, dont they get enough from the interest they charge the card holder?

2. No way to back charge or cancel a transaction no matter what.
2A. Visa doesnt give a rats ass if you get your money, they are making 2% of every transaction  your business does from you as well as 8% to 22% interest from the card holder, so no matter what they are getting paid for every transaction that is made both from your business and the card holders.

3. No Cancelled checks that you pay for in the end.
3A. Canceled checks another double whammy. The business that accepts the check gets charged a bounced check fee as well as the person who writes the check, so banks dont give a rats ass if someone bounces a check on your business because you and they both get charged a fee. And for someone making a purchase of 300 dollars this is a perfect solution, get 300 dollars worth of merchandise for 25 dollars. (the 25 dollars is their check bouncing fee)

In summary if you are to stupid to see the benefits of Accepting Bitcoin in your business over the use of credit cards and checks, well then you deserve to pay all those fees every month to your bank and credit card, Business decision are very important and your budget can make or break your business, would you pay 30 dollars for a product and sell it for 25, NO YOU WOULD NOT, then why use payment methods that cost your business money when you can use one that costs virtually nothing.

Accounting 101 - Transactions are not reversible in any currency!  In GAAP accounting, if you want to reverse a transaction, you keep the original transaction, then add more transactions to net out to zero.  Money would be refunded/"sent back" from the original receiver to the sender, but the original transaction remains forever.

Ok, how about this:

Dear Mr. Gates, Kindly watch this to understand a misconception about irreversible bitcoin transactions: http://youtu.be/XsW_bsFAWgw?t=4m5s


That's exactly 139 characters long.

Exactly. You two have it perfectly.

People mistakenly think of Bitcoin as a comparison to Visa/MC or PayPal, when in fact Bitcoin's comparison is to dollars (in that they're irreversible) and to gold (in that they're limited). Bitcoin also has qualities that rival any existing currency and have no comparison because none exists (ability to send instantly anywhere for basically free, as one example)

The correct comparison is that Bitcoin is to the software layer what Dollar&Gold is to Visa&MC&PayPal.

Those software layers are the centralized escrow services that will offer reversibility. It's not that bitcoin lacks those at all-- they simply have yet to be written.  Just like the before credit cards came around, all there was was cash. Credit cards are a layer on top of cash too.

Maybe some day people like Bill Gates and the media will get it and compare apples to apples instead of apples to oranges.

Badabing badaboom. Yup. That's essentially how it all works.

Now, if we wanted to implement Bitcoin "transaction reversibility", it's essentially the same thing as moving the Bitcoin back to the original owner's address (or more securely a new address but same wallet), assuming you catch whoever stole the Bitcoin or wants to return it. The two writes would be marked on the blockchain. It's like operating system "cut and paste" except everything is kept track of.

Real US dollar transactions are not reversible. If you wire someone money, hand someone cash, or give someone a legitimate cashier's check that money is gone. Gone like a freight train, gone like yesterday Gone like a soldier in the civil war, bang, bang Gone like a '59 Cadillac Like all the good things that ain't never coming back She's gone, gone, gone, gone, she's gone.

The transactions that are reversible almost always involve a middle man such as a credit card provider. For most credit card transactions, the buyer is not immediately spending any USD. Rather, he is relying on a line of credit with the provider. Similarly, the merchant is not immediately receiving any USD. He is relying on the provider to mail him checks at regular intervals.

So what is happening with credit card payments is largely an illusion. The buyer thinks he has spent money. The seller thinks he has received money. But in both cases all they have spent/received are ledger entries in the private database of the provider. That is why those transactions can occur in seconds with little or no verification. This same third party (off block-chain) infrastructure can be put in place for Bitcoin. There has been much discussion about Bitcoin credit card providers that essentially act as a middle man to facilitate instantaneous, virtual, and of course easily reversible transactions.

Give me the exact phrase and I will tweet to him , thanks (I don't know what should I write  ).

I don't think so yet. Will you? And then let us know

Yeah but that's why you don't leave your wallet on the park bench. Same rules for bitcoin as cash there.

This. Once the thieft runs with the bitcoins theres no way to revert it other than catching the thieft. It would be like trying to find cash.