Big test for Bitcoin during the next Economic Collapse. - page 6.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: shoreno on March 12, 2021, 03:51:07 AM

those that who use a bitcoin can answer the question if btc is only for speculation or not . im a btc user and for me btc is pretty useful and not just a mere speculative thing .

It is very useful, just ask those people who buy heroine from the dark markets.

Quote

bitcoin did crash before but just like an economy that can recover btc does aswell . not all are going to run for btc and if ever there are , not all are using btc as a store of value .

Because Bitcoin depends on the open market for price discovery. Blame high volatility for the “crashes”, BUT zoom out, are they really “crashes”.

Quote

covid is not the first pandemic that shake the planet and it wasnt the first time for a country to print much cash , satoshi already experience that thats why he maybe built btc to solve that .

Bitcoin’s biggest test is coming, and with MicroStrategy, Tesla and other institutions HODLing, I’m confident that it will pass the test. Cool

shoreno

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those that who use a bitcoin can answer the question if btc is only for speculation or not . im a btc user and for me btc is pretty useful and not just a mere speculative thing . bitcoin did crash before but just like an economy that can recover btc does aswell . not all are going to run for btc and if ever there are , not all are using btc as a store of value . covid is not the first pandemic that shake the planet and it wasnt the first time for a country to print much cash , satoshi already experience that thats why he maybe built btc to solve that .

Kong Hey Pakboy

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Only one way to find that out is if there is going to be a collapse, we didn't have any collapse that is as drastic as the Great Depression and 1929 Wallstreet crash with the Internet so that is also another test that we should be looking out for, if Internet will survive a crash because if it does then bitcoin and other cryptocurrency is going to survive too.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: paxmao on March 11, 2021, 08:06:18 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on February 22, 2021, 07:19:50 AM

...
Bitcoin has been criticized as a medium “for speculation”. Big test. Is it just merely “for speculation”, or an actual “safe haven”? Will Bitcoin crash together with the rest of the economy, or will everyone run to it as a Store of Value?

Hyperinflation with the USD is very unlikely to happen. The difference between the USD and the rest of the currencies is that it is widely accepted as a means of payment pretty much everywhere (at institutional level I mean). This means that the value of the dollar is not only backed up by the products and services of the USA, but by all the goods and services (e.g. crude oil,financial,...) that can be bought with it. Also, the inflation can be controlled by the FED and my take is that they would choose to do so if it rises above 3%

The United States Government has been BRRRR printing more cash, higher than its Gross National Product. If that’s your basis for backing, then it’s not backed 100%.

Plus your other point is that it’s backed by “all goods, and services that can be bought with it”? How does that stop hyperinflation?

jostorres

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on March 10, 2021, 04:01:25 AM

If the people are going to starve because there is no salary increase in parallel with the inflation growth, they will slowly reduce productivity which will generate less profit for the businesses that they are working for and with businesses that has lower profits then the lower the taxes the businesses are going to produce.

Honestly any business that can't keep up with inflation for minimum wage should not be defended anyway, let them bankrupt. When 5 days a week work days were first suggested it was seen as "it will bankrupt business" and when 8 hours a day were first suggested it was seen as "it will bankrupt business" and when women were getting into business with big force they were seen as "it will bankrupt business", whenever there is something that would improve the lives of people, it will always be defended against as "it will bankrupt business" but the reality is that world is still growing bigger.

You could not only make the minimum wage $15 but make it $25 and tie it to inflation every single year to not have this conversation again, and it would still bankrupt only the unsuccessful business, sure there could be some tens of thousands of unemployed people because of this, even maybe over a million, it will be bad for a while, but all those business that manages to make it work will hire people anyway and new business will shine and hire them as well.

paxmao

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on February 22, 2021, 07:19:50 AM

...
Bitcoin has been criticized as a medium “for speculation”. Big test. Is it just merely “for speculation”, or an actual “safe haven”? Will Bitcoin crash together with the rest of the economy, or will everyone run to it as a Store of Value?

Hyperinflation with the USD is very unlikely to happen. The difference between the USD and the rest of the currencies is that it is widely accepted as a means of payment pretty much everywhere (at institutional level I mean). This means that the value of the dollar is not only backed up by the products and services of the USA, but by all the goods and services (e.g. crude oil,financial,...) that can be bought with it. Also, the inflation can be controlled by the FED and my take is that they would choose to do so if it rises above 3%

I would say that the real test now is for using a expansionary policy as a default answer to a crisis - so a test on the Dollar, Euro, Pound and the respective local economies and their abilities to absorb rising interests types.

Gozie51

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Quote from: ChrisPop on February 22, 2021, 09:12:19 AM

During the pandemic Bitcoin experimented a crash like most of the assets (Gold included)

I don't think that this is very correct. Around 2018 bitcoin started to crash and got very low early in 2020. During this time was the respiratory awareness time and shortly after countries started closing up for business then bitcoin started an increase. I think covid-19 rather helped bitcoin to increase and just like you said, institutional investors started avoiding fiat and using bitcoin.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on March 10, 2021, 04:01:25 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on March 10, 2021, 03:47:48 AM

Quote from: Lorence.xD on March 10, 2021, 02:37:50 AM

~

Increasing minimum wage is not the solution, but the consequence of inflation. It also increases the cash in circulation which causes inflation to go higher. In Modern Monetary Theory, the solution is radically higher taxes, and higher interest rates. It will work until it doesn’t.

HODL Bitcoin.

If the people are going to starve because there is no salary increase in parallel with the inflation growth, they will slowly reduce productivity which will generate less profit for the businesses that they are working for and with businesses that has lower profits then the lower the taxes the businesses are going to produce.

More money in circulation = more inflation. Higher salary = more money in circulation. Higher inflation = faster decrease in value of cash. Faster decrease in value of cash = people won’t hold hold it, and spend it right away before value decreases more. More spending = higher prices. Higher prices = demand for higher salary.

Period of hyperinflation = extended period of Bitcoin bull market. Cool

Lorence.xD

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on March 10, 2021, 03:47:48 AM

Quote from: Lorence.xD on March 10, 2021, 02:37:50 AM

~

Increasing minimum wage is not the solution, but the consequence of inflation. It also increases the cash in circulation which causes inflation to go higher. In Modern Monetary Theory, the solution is radically higher taxes, and higher interest rates. It will work until it doesn’t.

HODL Bitcoin.

If the people are going to starve because there is no salary increase in parallel with the inflation growth, they will slowly reduce productivity which will generate less profit for the businesses that they are working for and with businesses that has lower profits then the lower the taxes the businesses are going to produce.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on March 10, 2021, 02:37:50 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Governments of practically every country have government regulators that closely followed inflation rate at their country and I believe they have some methods to regulate the level of inflation and to prevent hyperinflation. As for BTC it is finite so is not inflationary. Doubt he'd collapse together with all the economy. It seems more likely that the reverse is the case his price will grow to the moon.

They do have some methods if I am recalling it right, although the government isn't going to like those solutions to be honest. One of the best way to combat inflation is to raise the minimum wage of the labor sector but that wouldn't ring good in the ears of business sector because they will be "losing profit" which is clearly a bullshit. I believe that increasing the minimum wage is the only way to combat the inflation effectively because printing money is in a way good for an expanding economy. Walking a tight rope between deflation and inflation is difficult because the balance of both is the most ideal thing to happen.

Increasing minimum wage is not the solution, but the consequence of inflation. It also increases the cash in circulation which causes inflation to go higher. In Modern Monetary Theory, the solution is radically higher taxes, and higher interest rates. It will work until it doesn’t.

HODL Bitcoin.

Lorence.xD

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Governments of practically every country have government regulators that closely followed inflation rate at their country and I believe they have some methods to regulate the level of inflation and to prevent hyperinflation. As for BTC it is finite so is not inflationary. Doubt he'd collapse together with all the economy. It seems more likely that the reverse is the case his price will grow to the moon.

They do have some methods if I am recalling it right, although the government isn't going to like those solutions to be honest. One of the best way to combat inflation is to raise the minimum wage of the labor sector but that wouldn't ring good in the ears of business sector because they will be "losing profit" which is clearly a bullshit. I believe that increasing the minimum wage is the only way to combat the inflation effectively because printing money is in a way good for an expanding economy. Walking a tight rope between deflation and inflation is difficult because the balance of both is the most ideal thing to happen.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: Kittygalore on March 09, 2021, 03:30:55 AM

Doesn't to have a collapse for bitcoin to prove its worth, it already did a long time ago. I can't get myself on the side of wishing for an Economic collapse just to prove a point that bitcoin will be able to become a hedge, maybe this printing will be causing a collapse but I don't think that the US Government is going to let that happen because they are the most sought after currency in other countries.

It doesn’t, and I’m personally not wishing for an Economic Collapse, but do you actually still trust our leaders to not lose control over the monetary/financial system? Maybe you do, but you should STILL HODL Bitcoin just in case you will need a fall-back/back-up. Cool

justdimin

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Quote from: Gyfts on March 06, 2021, 02:55:42 PM

Senate democrats in the United States congress pass one of the biggest spending bills in history. 1.9 trillion dollars...USD is not a stable currency anymore. When you have politicians that believe they can print money on a machine for political victories, you have destabilized the currency in a way that will cause extreme inflation.

So there really isn't a test for Bitcoin. The long term goal for any BTC user/investor has always been -- let the largest currencies in the world collapse due to irresponsible spending and let BTC take the throne because of its decentralization. Unfortunately for Americans, this process will be expedited thanks to this spending bill.

I don't get it, Trump passed 2.2 trillion before, and passed another 1.4 trillion latter, had a total of 4 trillion into the debt, so this one is neither the biggest nor will be the last, this was just helping people out type of deal and that's it, in fact this was something republicans wanted more than democrats, democrats wanted this to be 2k instead of 1.4k and wanted 15 dollars an hour as minimum wage because let's face it during this period we have relied on minimum wage workers a ton and they are still paid a few decade ago salaries, all thanks to people bribing republican senators.

Long story short that "senate democrats passed one of the biggest spending bills in history" is a big big big HUGE republican lie, we wanted even bigger, and yet it still wouldn't be the biggest plus it is not a "spending bill" it is stimulus, it goes to people's pockets, it is helping people during this period, what do you want instead? People being in poverty and dying of hunger? Is that a better alternative in your mind?

Kittygalore

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Doesn't need to have a collapse for bitcoin to prove its worth, it already did a long time ago. I can't get myself on the side of wishing for an Economic collapse just to prove a point that bitcoin will be able to become a hedge, maybe this printing will be causing a collapse but I don't think that the US Government is going to let that happen because they are the most sought after currency in other countries.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: michellee on March 08, 2021, 09:53:48 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on March 08, 2021, 03:31:33 AM

Quote from: michellee on March 06, 2021, 06:39:36 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on March 06, 2021, 04:50:02 AM

Quote from: Febo on February 27, 2021, 10:54:00 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on February 22, 2021, 07:19:50 AM

I am starting to believe that Satoshi created Bitcoin for what’s coming next, or might come next. Because of the COVID-19 pandemic, I’m not sure about the rest of the countries, but the United Stated Federal Reserve prrrrinted inordinate amounts of U.S. Dollars to stimulate the economy, with plans to print trillions more under President Biden. All the prrrrinting and a falling GDP MIGHT be the seeds for the worst situation of an Economic Crisis. HYPERINFLATION.

Bitcoin has been criticized as a medium “for speculation”. Big test. Is it just merely “for speculation”, or an actual “safe haven”? Will Bitcoin crash together with the rest of the economy, or will everyone run to it as a Store of Value?

We had big test in March last year when covid crash happened. Bitcoin went from $9000 to $5000 in a week. So value of Bitcoin almost halved. At same time Gold went from $1680 to $1480. So a 12% drop. This is huge difference. And it matters a lot to people that want to hedge against economic crashes. It i s much better to lose 12% then 45%

You’re merely talking about volatility. If that’s your main concern, then as a hedge, place a smaller portion of your capital in Bitcoin, and a larger portion in Gold. BUT, here’s the real risk of Gold as a true hedge, who controls the vaults? Not your vault, not your Gold. Cool

It is better to have the same portion in bitcoin and gold Grin

As a personal choice, I believe it’s definitely better to, as a hedge, place 100% in Bitcoin, and zoom out. Bitcoin is censorship-resistant, self-sovereign, easy to store, and can’t be confiscated from you. How can you store a substantial amount of Gold without trusting a third party? A big vault on your house? How will you spend it? Carry a heavy bag and a weighing scale?

That will be my secret to store my gold if I do not want to store it in the bank or the other third party. I am sure I will figure out how I can use that gold to buy something. I do not have to carry a heavy bag because there will be some ways that I can use to sell the gold.

But that will be no problem if you want to place 100% in bitcoin to store your money.

But during a time when the government loses control of its monetary system, we should use something else as money as a back-up/fall-back. Something that we can transact easily, not like Gold. Bitcoin is easier, and a more efficient way. We can’t expect merchants to accept Gold pieces like the Medieval Times.

michellee

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on March 08, 2021, 03:31:33 AM

Quote from: michellee on March 06, 2021, 06:39:36 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on March 06, 2021, 04:50:02 AM

Quote from: Febo on February 27, 2021, 10:54:00 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on February 22, 2021, 07:19:50 AM

I am starting to believe that Satoshi created Bitcoin for what’s coming next, or might come next. Because of the COVID-19 pandemic, I’m not sure about the rest of the countries, but the United Stated Federal Reserve prrrrinted inordinate amounts of U.S. Dollars to stimulate the economy, with plans to print trillions more under President Biden. All the prrrrinting and a falling GDP MIGHT be the seeds for the worst situation of an Economic Crisis. HYPERINFLATION.

Bitcoin has been criticized as a medium “for speculation”. Big test. Is it just merely “for speculation”, or an actual “safe haven”? Will Bitcoin crash together with the rest of the economy, or will everyone run to it as a Store of Value?

We had big test in March last year when covid crash happened. Bitcoin went from $9000 to $5000 in a week. So value of Bitcoin almost halved. At same time Gold went from $1680 to $1480. So a 12% drop. This is huge difference. And it matters a lot to people that want to hedge against economic crashes. It i s much better to lose 12% then 45%

You’re merely talking about volatility. If that’s your main concern, then as a hedge, place a smaller portion of your capital in Bitcoin, and a larger portion in Gold. BUT, here’s the real risk of Gold as a true hedge, who controls the vaults? Not your vault, not your Gold. Cool

It is better to have the same portion in bitcoin and gold Grin

As a personal choice, I believe it’s definitely better to, as a hedge, place 100% in Bitcoin, and zoom out. Bitcoin is censorship-resistant, self-sovereign, easy to store, and can’t be confiscated from you. How can you store a substantial amount of Gold without trusting a third party? A big vault on your house? How will you spend it? Carry a heavy bag and a weighing scale?

That will be my secret to store my gold if I do not want to store it in the bank or the other third party. I am sure I will figure out how I can use that gold to buy something. I do not have to carry a heavy bag because there will be some ways that I can use to sell the gold.

But that will be no problem if you want to place 100% in bitcoin to store your money.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: michellee on March 06, 2021, 06:39:36 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on March 06, 2021, 04:50:02 AM

Quote from: Febo on February 27, 2021, 10:54:00 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on February 22, 2021, 07:19:50 AM

I am starting to believe that Satoshi created Bitcoin for what’s coming next, or might come next. Because of the COVID-19 pandemic, I’m not sure about the rest of the countries, but the United Stated Federal Reserve prrrrinted inordinate amounts of U.S. Dollars to stimulate the economy, with plans to print trillions more under President Biden. All the prrrrinting and a falling GDP MIGHT be the seeds for the worst situation of an Economic Crisis. HYPERINFLATION.

Bitcoin has been criticized as a medium “for speculation”. Big test. Is it just merely “for speculation”, or an actual “safe haven”? Will Bitcoin crash together with the rest of the economy, or will everyone run to it as a Store of Value?

We had big test in March last year when covid crash happened. Bitcoin went from $9000 to $5000 in a week. So value of Bitcoin almost halved. At same time Gold went from $1680 to $1480. So a 12% drop. This is huge difference. And it matters a lot to people that want to hedge against economic crashes. It i s much better to lose 12% then 45%

You’re merely talking about volatility. If that’s your main concern, then as a hedge, place a smaller portion of your capital in Bitcoin, and a larger portion in Gold. BUT, here’s the real risk of Gold as a true hedge, who controls the vaults? Not your vault, not your Gold. Cool

It is better to have the same portion in bitcoin and gold Grin

As a personal choice, I believe it’s definitely better to, as a hedge, place 100% in Bitcoin, and zoom out. Bitcoin is censorship-resistant, self-sovereign, easy to store, and can’t be confiscated from you. How can you store a substantial amount of Gold without trusting a third party? A big vault on your house? How will you spend it? Carry a heavy bag and a weighing scale?

zanezane

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Quote from: Gyfts on March 06, 2021, 02:55:42 PM

Senate democrats in the United States congress pass one of the biggest spending bills in history. 1.9 trillion dollars...USD is not a stable currency anymore. When you have politicians that believe they can print money on a machine for political victories, you have destabilized the currency in a way that will cause extreme inflation.

So there really isn't a test for Bitcoin. The long term goal for any BTC user/investor has always been -- let the largest currencies in the world collapse due to irresponsible spending and let BTC take the throne because of its decentralization. Unfortunately for Americans, this process will be expedited thanks to this spending bill.

That is saying a lot to be fair, 1.9 trillion dollars to stimulate the economy in my opinion is enough. Maybe they have a plan in mind to prevent the potential collapse after this stimulation. How can we really gauge that the USD is really unstable as of this moment? I don't think that bitcoin has to prove anything because bitcoin is tied in some way to USD, also I don't think that this is an irresponsible spending because the people wanted this and the politicians are not always at fault here, they are just the puppets.

jaysabi

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Quote from: Gyfts on March 06, 2021, 02:55:42 PM

Senate democrats in the United States congress pass one of the biggest spending bills in history. 1.9 trillion dollars...USD is not a stable currency anymore. When you have politicians that believe they can print money on a machine for political victories, you have destabilized the currency in a way that will cause extreme inflation.

So there really isn't a test for Bitcoin. The long term goal for any BTC user/investor has always been -- let the largest currencies in the world collapse due to irresponsible spending and let BTC take the throne because of its decentralization. Unfortunately for Americans, this process will be expedited thanks to this spending bill.

Nonsense. The USD is stable despite all the QE. Bitcoin maximalists have been preaching uncontrollable inflation for 10 years now and it hasn't happened. That's a long track record of being wrong. And like it or not, USD is far more stable than bitcoin. You know which one doesn't fluctuate 10% in a day regularly? USD. You know which one you can predict with certainty the value of tomorrow, next week, next month and next year? USD. You can't accurately predict what the price of bitcoin will be on any given day and the uncertainty only gets worse the farther out you go. That's the definition of an unstable currency.

Twentyonepaylots

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Provided this collapse doesn't ensue a war for resources, We can guarantee that bitcoin will take over the currency and will stand victorious against the USD. In all these years bitcoin only appreciated in value, while USD steadily fell down and lost its worth, and as OP have said, with the upcoming printing of inordinate amounts of USD, expect an economic collapse and those who have bitcoins will stand victorious.

Quote from: Gyfts on March 06, 2021, 02:55:42 PM

Senate democrats in the United States congress pass one of the biggest spending bills in history. 1.9 trillion dollars...USD is not a stable currency anymore. When you have politicians that believe they can print money on a machine for political victories, you have destabilized the currency in a way that will cause extreme inflation.

So there really isn't a test for Bitcoin. The long term goal for any BTC user/investor has always been -- let the largest currencies in the world collapse due to irresponsible spending and let BTC take the throne because of its decentralization. Unfortunately for Americans, this process will be expedited thanks to this spending bill.

Except if more Americans see what's going on and find out the best way out is thru cryptocurrencies like bitcoin, this could only be bad for those who hoard USD. But I digress.

Topic: Big test for Bitcoin during the next Economic Collapse. - page 6. (Read 1477 times)