big transaction fee in Bitcoin , really down the future of btc ? - page 3.

vohoanghiep55555

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Quote from: pawanjain on June 11, 2017, 12:51:58 AM

Day to day the price of the Bitcoin is increasing but with this a big problem arising that is fee .
Can you think that with the increase of the transaction fee of the Bitcoin will results into less use of the Bitcoin for transaction from one address to another .
And people will move toward the other cryptocurrency .
Or there is chances to improve the block chain network and increase the size of block .

I request to everyone to give you thoughts and views at this big problem of fee .

I think not. Bitcoin is rising so its fees increase is normal. While you make a lot of money from Bitcoin, that fee is not much

Gens09

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Quote from: ?? on ??

nope. big amount of fees cant down the future of bitcoin. If you want a quick transaction, than you must have to provide high fees.less fee transaction take a lot of time for completing transactors first complete high fess transaction, than take look om low fees.

Yeah i guess fees will be a thing in all people who is using bitcoin but i guess as long as bitcoin price is growing to i guess they will not mind if the fees go a little bit high as long as we have high bitcoin price also we know that fees depend in how fast the transaction in the blockchain so i guess it is really fair so some reason and i know it is not a thing to down bitcoin in the future.

soul-impact

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Quote from: pawanjain on June 11, 2017, 12:51:58 AM

Day to day the price of the Bitcoin is increasing but with this a big problem arising that is fee .
Can you think that with the increase of the transaction fee of the Bitcoin will results into less use of the Bitcoin for transaction from one address to another .
And people will move toward the other cryptocurrency .
Or there is chances to improve the block chain network and increase the size of block .

I request to everyone to give you thoughts and views at this big problem of fee .

If the bitcoin transaction fees continue to increase, people will start to feel bored, then they will find another potential currency to store their money, however, transaction fees are just a problem. The anxiety of those who regularly trade in bitcoin, in contrast, those who want to store bitcoin will not be affected, and they can profit from it in the future.

BlackPanda

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Quote from: ?? on ??

nope. big amount of fees cant down the future of bitcoin. If you want a quick transaction, than you must have to provide high fees.less fee transaction take a lot of time for completing transactors first complete high fess transaction, than take look om low fees.

Yes indeed, the amount of fees we can set in accordance with the wishes. Usually those who want transactions faster then they spend more fee. While for those who want a cheap fee then bitcoin delivery will be longer.

Lauda

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Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2017, 08:04:06 AM

I don't quite see your point

You don't understand LN.

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2017, 08:04:06 AM

If a single payment channel is enough for me to transact with everyone, why would each user be required to open a payment channel, and why it would require block space at that?

How exactly do you plan on paying me via LN when you have a channel with Alice, and I don't use LN? Roll Eyes

Do you even know/understand what opening a payment channel means?! It requires block space.

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2017, 08:04:06 AM

As I understand the technology behind LN, its main advantage consists specifically in lowering the load on the blockchain since transactions made via payment channels are off-chain transactions, right?

Payment channels which are opened and closed on the blockchain.

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2017, 08:04:06 AM

So why is there a need for block space at all if these transactions are never to show up on the blockchain?

Sigh. Nobody said anything about those transactions, but yes they don't show up on the blockchain.

Juggy777

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Quote from: pawanjain on June 11, 2017, 12:51:58 AM

Day to day the price of the Bitcoin is increasing but with this a big problem arising that is fee .
Can you think that with the increase of the transaction fee of the Bitcoin will results into less use of the Bitcoin for transaction from one address to another .
And people will move toward the other cryptocurrency .
Or there is chances to improve the block chain network and increase the size of block .

I request to everyone to give you thoughts and views at this big problem of fee .

Ya the fee is getting a big pain, last time I tried to send 0.84$ and I was shown a fees of 3$ approx, which was ridiculous I don't even know what to do. I am not leaving Bitcoins but ya I hope the block issue is solved soon. Fees irritate us but the stability and the price rise no one give, so for that reason I won't ever give up on Bitcoin.

deisik

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Quote from: Lauda on June 11, 2017, 07:56:43 AM

That's the thing. You don't understand it. Three assumptions are made, and all of which are implicitly understood by those who understand the model of LN. They are:
1) A single payment channel is enough for you to transact with everyone (routing).
2) Everyone that you want to transact with is on LN.
3) Everyone has already opened a payment channel.

Assuming 10 million users (random metric), calculate how much block space it would require for each user to open a payment channel. Please post your results.

Anyhow, it isn't exactly recommended for high value transactions at this time

I don't quite see your point

If a single payment channel is enough for me to transact with everyone, why would each user be required to open a payment channel, and why would it require block space at that? As I understand the technology behind LN, its main advantage consists specifically in lowering the load on the blockchain since transactions made via payment channels are off-chain transactions, right? So why is there a need for the block space at all if these transactions are never to show up on the blockchain?

Lauda

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Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2017, 07:53:20 AM

So I guess Litecoin cuts it pretty well as a Bitcoin-like cryptocurrency

You can argue centralization problems, but yes.

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2017, 07:53:20 AM

If so, how can you then claim that it will have the same problems? As far as I understand it, payment channels are created to specifically address the issue you are talking about (i.e. running out of processing capacity). Therefore, it is not about me arguing that payment channels can have infinite processing capacity. This is basically what they are there for exactly. In this way, your whole claim is not valid

That's the thing. You don't understand it. Three assumptions are made, and all of which are implicitly understood by those who understand the model of LN. They are:
1) A single payment channel is enough for you to transact with everyone (routing).
2) Everyone that you want to transact with is on LN.
3) Everyone has already opened a payment channel.

Assuming 10 million users (random metric), calculate how much block space it would require for each user to open a payment channel. Please post your results.

Anyhow, it isn't exactly recommended for high value transactions at this time.

deisik

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Quote from: Lauda on June 11, 2017, 07:46:55 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2017, 07:43:14 AM

You seem to be underinformed

Nope.

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2017, 07:43:14 AM

I don't really know what you mean by "no cryptocurrency that has the same features as Bitcoin", but Litecoin, a Bitcoin copycat by and large, already has SegWit and Lightning Network activated (there are even a few startups involved with that).

Decentralized, trustless, peer-to-peer currency (although more adjectives can be appended). You can easily create a semi-centralized or centralized altcoin that has a high TPS limit.

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2017, 07:43:14 AM

Therefore, we can't possibly have the same problems with it. In fact, it would be particularly interesting to see how these features would show themselves under heavy load (especially Lightning Network)

Of course you can. SegWit with LN in combination with the block size limit of LTC are also capped at a fixed TPS. Even though, you can argue that once payment channels have been established that they have *infinite* TPS.

So I guess Litecoin cuts it pretty well as a Bitcoin-like cryptocurrency

If so, how can you then claim that it will have the same problems? As far as I understand it, payment channels are created to specifically address the issue you are talking about (i.e. running out of processing capacity). Therefore, it is not about me arguing that payment channels can have infinite processing capacity. This is basically what they are there for in the first place. In this way, your whole claim is not valid (that no cryptocurrency like Bitcoin has found a solution)

Lauda

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Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2017, 07:43:14 AM

You seem to be underinformed

Nope.

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2017, 07:43:14 AM

I don't really know what you mean by "no cryptocurrency that has the same features as Bitcoin", but Litecoin, a Bitcoin copycat by and large, already has SegWit and Lightning Network activated (there are even a few startups involved with that).

Decentralized, trustless, peer-to-peer currency (although more adjectives can be appended). You can easily create a semi-centralized or centralized altcoin that has a high TPS limit.

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2017, 07:43:14 AM

Therefore, we can't possibly have the same problems with it. In fact, it would be particularly interesting to see how these features would show themselves under heavy load (especially Lightning Network)

Of course you can. SegWit with LN in combination with the block size limit of LTC are also capped at a fixed TPS. Even though, you can argue that once payment channels have been established that they have *infinite* TPS.

deisik

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Quote from: Lauda on June 11, 2017, 06:01:16 AM

Quote from: Daniel91 on June 11, 2017, 05:00:55 AM

I really think that some people may give up btc and invest in other crypto currencies if we don't find solution here.
In such scenario, some other crypto currency can replace btc so hopefully we will see some resolution soon.

I have to repeat this countless amount of times: This is uneducated bullshit. No cryptocurrency that has the same features as Bitcoin has found a solution. If we all hop onto [insertScamCoin] the same [scamCoin] will have the same problems

You seem to be underinformed

I don't really know what you mean by "no cryptocurrency that has the same features as Bitcoin", but Litecoin, a Bitcoin copycat by and large, already has SegWit and Lightning Network activated (there are even a few startups involved with that). Therefore, we can't possibly have the same problems with it. So if it runs out of raw processing capacity provided by regular miners, LN payment channels should kick in, and then we will be in an unchartered territory for the most part. In fact, it would be particularly interesting to see how payment channels work in real life under real load

Lauda

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Quote from: Daniel91 on June 11, 2017, 05:00:55 AM

When I had to wait 3-4 days for confirmation, I realized how big problem we have in btc network.

No. If you pay the fee for inclusion into the next block, you don't wait for anything. The very fee that you include at a specific time in combination with the status of the network, decides how long it will take for your transaction to confirm.

Quote from: Daniel91 on June 11, 2017, 05:00:55 AM

I really think that some people may give up btc and invest in other crypto currencies if we don't find solution here.
In such scenario, some other crypto currency can replace btc so hopefully we will see some resolution soon.

I have to repeat this countless amount of times: This is uneducated bullshit. No cryptocurrency that has the same features as Bitcoin has found a solution. If we all hop onto [insertScamCoin] the same [scamCoin] will have the same problems.

Quote from: Lauda on May 21, 2017, 07:11:06 AM

Welcome to reality and stop shilling some centralized shitcoins.

Note: This data is outdated now; fees are higher.

Daniel91

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I agree with you that big transaction fees became huge problem for bitcoin.
Before several months I didn't even think about it.
I will simple send btc and accept recommended transaction fee.
When I had to wait 3-4 days for confirmation, I realized how big problem we have in btc network.
I really think that some people may give up btc and invest in other crypto currencies if we don't find solution here.
In such scenario, some other crypto currency can replace btc so hopefully we will see some resolution soon.

samuraijin

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Okay they use a large transaction fee to get faster on the confirmation of the bitcoin mining network, so with a small transaction fee you can not make a transaction, I feel there are big people who take advantage of this situation until the siza block rises above 1 mB.

deisik

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Another shit thread by someone purportedly wanting to hear forum members' opinions

Quote from: Amph on June 11, 2017, 01:44:08 AM

and it's working for abroad transaction, can you send usd to someone else in another country at the same rate of bitcoin fee? i really doubt it and with the same speed, again i really doubt it

Instead of doubting you can just go and check for yourself

Card-to-card payments that many banks are involved in don't distinguish between countries. Moreover, some of these are free of charge (that depends on the bank, obviously). Needless to say, these transfers are close to being instant. It usually takes a couple of minutes to receive the funds. Other than that, Bitcoin is global, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to speak about moving your coins from one place in one country to another place in another country since the coins still remain in the same blockchain. Basically, you are moving them from one wallet to another, while the concept of distance is not applicable here (and that's good)

jorneyflair

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Quote from: btcforca#h on June 11, 2017, 01:48:44 AM

I don't think the fees are going to remain within this high range as soon as a solution is found to the block size the fees are going back to a normal rate of 0.0001 but even then, 0.0001 is still highly expensive with the rise in BTC price since it's equal to $2.8 or so now, it would be better if the default fees than everyone use is lowered to 0.00005 or something.

There isn't a "default minimum fee" that the network has to set. If the blocks are empty and/or the transaction sizes are able to be shrinked so that they take up less space each, then miners obviously have financial incentive to include transactions even when they have a lower transaction fee attached because otherwise it would be a waste of a found block. Some pools might rejects transactions like this but others will. It really depends on the size of your transaction and the amount involved. You can't say i've paid 0.0001 BTC for fee, so therefore i'm good.

And also 0.0001 BTC is $0.28 not $2.8. If we can revert to that as the average fee then i think most people will be very happy.

Fappanu

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Yes Maybe! base on my opinion and experience high fee is losing my small percentage of using bitcoin
but since this is the only handy and easy access to use online transaction i will still using bitcoin.
i wish a lower fee as possible. some btc payment provider are taking advantage on this matter hopefully
they can't make any resolution to it. or else some user will migrate.

btcforca#h

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I don't think the fees are going to remain within this high range as soon as a solution is found to the block size the fees are going back to a normal rate of 0.0001 but even then, 0.0001 is still highly expensive with the rise in BTC price since it's equal to $2.8 or so now, it would be better if the default fees than everyone use is lowered to 0.00005 or something.

Amph

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Quote from: SonnetStar on June 11, 2017, 01:39:08 AM

I though the whole point of bitcoin is to do what banks can't do faster and cheaper?

If the fees are so hgih, what's the point? Why would anyone adopt a currency that is so prohibitive?

I think we need to get free under control or otherwise banks will win

and it's working for abroad transaction, can you send usd to someone else in another country at the same rate of bitcoin fee? i really doubt it and with the same speed, again i really doubt it

also bitcoin have another advantage that very few people remeber when they compare it to a bank, can you move 100M usd with a bank account without rising several alarma at your bank or IRS or anything?

you probably need permission to move big amount of money with fiat and you are traced...

no of course, with bitcoin you are free to move even billions in dollars, and none will say you anything, this is a big advantage for rich people that want to mvoe their capital from oen place to another of the world

SonnetStar

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I though the whole point of bitcoin is to do what banks can't do faster and cheaper?

If the fees are so hgih, what's the point? Why would anyone adopt a currency that is so prohibitive?

I think we need to get free under control or otherwise banks will win

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