Topic: biggest profit for miner devs not miners (Read 2164 times)

As has already been pointed out, you're full of yourself, or stupid, or both.  Not that it has anything to do with the discussion, but intelligent and rational people can tell the difference between tangible theft (depriving someone of something they own), and unauthorized use of some non-tangible right.

Anyway, now I know next time to self-moderate in order to keep your drivel out of the discussions I start.  And for this one, as promised, I'm locking it.

Wow, talking about morals, decency and good social behavior is now trolling?  That bar really has been lowered I guess, and its amazing the acrobatics people use to justify their wrongdoing.

Calling out somebody or something that is wrong, is never trolling and should always be encouraged.

And about last 470 / 480 who much it is difference? maybe it fee it is same performance.

Any reason for that?

If you paid attention to my other posts you'd know I'm already using sgminer-gm.  For Hawaii, it's faster than Claymore.

why you don't use sgminer-gm that it is open source (then you can edit and upgrade it) if you dont wanna pay fee to claymore ?

Regarding b), I've released my strapmod utility and and made an online version available.  The next step as you've suggested is integrating the timing mods into the miner (I've been experimenting with this idea for about a week now).

Regarding c), I think it's more the domain of mining management software.

I'm now wishing I made this a self-moderated thread...  It's too late for that but if the trolls do keep it up I'll lock it.

Ah here we go again with the name calling and temper tantrums.
I decided what's fair for ME, don't like it? Well tough cookies, suck it up buttercup.

I'm not trying to justify anything, not peddling anything. I replied to the OP, it wasn't really an invitation for trolling but keep it up.

cK'

And who the hell are you to decide what's fair for claymore?  You're just trying to justify being a shitty theiving person. No one's buying the bullshit you're peddling.

Couldn't agree with you more, jwarren88. Everyone wants a free lunch. People like coke are a big part of what is wrong with society.

Your argument is lame for several reasons. In the big picture, CM and all mining software providers, provides a service:

0) For miners, the mining software is a mission critical requirement. Even with free open source software there is a maintaining cost.

1) If you bother to read any of the CM miner threads, CM frequently incorporates suggested user changes/requirements. In a normal S/W development effort this would require some sort of costed out change order(s).

2) Unlike the real world, you don't pay extra if the mining software you need is ported to a newly released card.

3) It's in CM's financial interest to keep the mining software competitive with what is offered to large commercial installations.

4) I can't even imagine what the hourly cost would be to contract out to this software development to someone who needs coding + GPU assembly language + crypto coin programming experience.

5) People are already paying pools for providing a service as well as companies such as nicehash.

6) The cost of going from BTC to fiat is something that you really should be complaining about.

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I'm not a big fan of this whole software as a service, it's the modern version of rent-seeking. Basically getting paid for breathing instead of just selling the software for a fixed upfront price.

As it is now, everybody is rent-seeking from miners. In addition to the upfront cost of the mining equipment and the running costs in electricity _AND_ pool fees, miner devs now also want in on it. You guys are aware that without miners there's no PoW coins, right? So either sell your software for an upfront price or don't whine if people work around it. (btw, I'm not a freeloader, I paid fees for months before I decided it was enough)

I'm not saying CM did a bad job or that he doesn't deserve fair compensation for his work, just some people have a weird interpretation of fair.

cK'

Oh get off your high horse. I do what I want, when I want and how I want. If you want to talk morals, Claymore took OPEN SOURCE miners, tweaked them a little and released them as closed-source. Depending on the licenses of the original works it might not even be legal for him to release it without the source and without containing any copyright notices of the original works he made a derivate of. Where's your outrage there?

cK'
[/quote]

Your argument is lame for several reasons. In the big picture, CM and all mining software providers, provides a service:

0) For miners, the mining software is a mission critical requirement. Even with free open source software there is a maintaining cost.

1) If you bother to read any of the CM miner threads, CM frequently incorporates suggested user changes/requirements. In a normal S/W development effort this would require some sort of costed out change order(s).

2) Unlike the real world, you don't pay extra if the mining software you need is ported to a newly released card.

3) It's in CM's financial interest to keep the mining software competitive with what is offered to large commercial installations.

4) I can't even imagine what the hourly cost would be to contract out to this software development to someone who needs coding + GPU assembly language + crypto coin programming experience.

5) People are already paying pools for providing a service as well as companies such as nicehash.

6) The cost of going from BTC to fiat is something that you really should be complaining about.


There is the opposite tack, I would like to see more features for the money:

a) I like Nerdralph's idea of mining software focused on energy efficiency. I'm always on the lookout for such solutions.

b) I would like to see an open market on GPU bio's instead of this hush/hush PM stuff. I would have no problem paying 1% for a top energy GPU efficient bios that was validated by mining software. Why can't the bios and mining software be an integrated system.

c) Finally, with summer coming, I would like to see some sort of option in the mining software based on time-of-day use for individual GPUs. There would be many good things about this:

i) Instead of trying to do this through the O/S, doing it through the mining software makes this feature platform independent.
ii) Energy hog GPU's could be shutdown during the hours of day when the electricity rates are high.
iii) It's probably more efficient to completely shut down/idle individual cards to limit heating/consumption than for all the GPU's to throttle back.

Good for miner devs having a valuable skill. If you have monopoly over a product, in this case the fastest mining software, why wouldn't you set your price such that you have maximum gain? The fee should be as large as possible without causing public outcry, and small enough that only a low percentage of users bother finding workarounds to avoid fees.

Next, creating the fastest miner is difficult work and requires years of experience in specific roles, not cookie cutter info from programming books. If claymore includes his miners in his resume , the right employer will pay him a lot.

However I am surprised very few developers try to make their own miners. The monetary incentive should be enough. Either large farms are paying them more, their job pays 7 digits ,or they know they can't beat the current miners.

So let me get this straight, someone gives away their work for free and expressly for anyone to use (within the license they release it under); and someone uses that work, adding their own work to it, that allows thousands of people to profit from it; but its wrong for that person to want some compensation for their work?  One chose to work for free, the other chose to charge a market based fee?  A fee that people willingly pay because its worth it?

I'm not sure if you know this but Microsoft is one of the largest contributors to the open source community, including to Linux.  That pretty much proves your premise wrong.  You CAN have it both ways, people can make money from closed source as well as open source.  There are massive company's that make money based on open source software as their core.  Greed doesn't even enter into this.  Its simply good business.  There is nothing stopping any of those open source developers from making their version better than Claymore's and releasing it for free (or for a fee).  They chose to work on the project for no compensation; someone else profiting from it has zero effect on them.  They can continue on as they wish.

It's stupid to say that claymore took open source miner, modified it a LITTLE, then released his own.
He proved that he is good at what he is doing a million times.

The problem is the lack of morals between closed source and open source devs.  That is to say open source devs are trying to develop new ideas that will benefit everyone, while closed source will only benefit themselves by finical gain.

Closed source miners can take those ideas and use them or improve them then sell it in their own software, while legal is still a big moral problem.  People won't benefit from this kind of function and it will impede growth or force people to depend on the work from the most successful closed source.  So you end up with a situation where people no longer want to contribute to open source being they know their work will be used by someone else for greed.

Ah so an insult is no longer an insult if you preface it with "You sound like a ...", good to know.

But really, I'm done with you, this is not a discussion, this is you throwing a fit and calling me names.
You don't like me, I don't like you, 'nuff said.

cK'

Glad you are amused.  I'm enjoying the discussion; its really the best way to see where people stand and what their principals are.

I didn't really see any name calling though, just descriptions of what I see, so I'm not sure what you are referring to.

his fee is actually 1% with -mode 1 (eth only).
EWBF fee on zec is 2% for NVIDIA miner, but that miner is very stable, I like it the most.
Optiminer/Linux on AMD is good/stable as well when you find correct pci-mode, fee 1% or so.