Biggest Scam Ever!! | Bitcointalksearch.org

nevafuse

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Quote from: knight22 on July 31, 2012, 11:26:29 AM

Quote from: nevafuse on July 31, 2012, 09:18:48 AM

The main culprits are our government's ability to print money, control interest rates, and disallow competing currencies. The videos do touch on these issues as well - they just don't feel like the main focus.

This is were you are wrong. Government has effectively one control of his money since JF Kennedy sign the executive order 11110 but was unfortunately never used... The FED is printing all the money and have all the real control over the economy.

See thread "Modern Money Mechanics" for further details:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/modern-money-mechanics-93310

I was using the FED & government interchangeably because both are required to accomplish the abilities I listed above. Without the government, the dollar would be worthless. We would have switched to a non-inflating currency a long time ago. The only reason bitcoin is succeeding is due to decentralization.

knight22

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Quote from: nevafuse on July 31, 2012, 09:18:48 AM

The main culprits are our government's ability to print money, control interest rates, and disallow competing currencies. The videos do touch on these issues as well - they just don't feel like the main focus.

This is were you are wrong. Government has effectively one control of his money since JF Kennedy sign the executive order 11110 but was unfortunately never used... The FED is printing all the money and have all the real control over the economy.

See thread "Modern Money Mechanics" for further details:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/modern-money-mechanics-93310

nevafuse

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Quote from: hgmichna on July 30, 2012, 04:47:08 PM

Quote from: nevafuse on July 30, 2012, 03:16:45 PM

Even with bitcoin, fractional reserve banking will most likely exist. …

True, but there is a decisive difference between fiat money and bitcoin.

I couldn't agree more. The videos just seemed to focus on fractional reserve banking being one of the main culprits which I highly disagree with. The main culprits are our government's ability to print money, control interest rates, and disallow competing currencies. The videos do touch on these issues as well - they just don't feel like the main focus.

hgmichna

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Quote from: nevafuse on July 30, 2012, 03:16:45 PM

Even with bitcoin, fractional reserve banking will most likely exist. …

True, but there is a decisive difference between fiat money and bitcoin. Fiat money is created out of the blue, whenever their extremely lax rules or their wishes allow or force it. You cannot determine whether the dollars or euros in your bank account are valuable or being devalued. Not even cash guarantees you any value.

I still have an old one dollar note with the inscription, "Payable to the bearer in silver". Unfortunately those times have passed. No new bank note still bears such an inscription.

Bitcoins are different. If you have bitcoins in an account somewhere, with somebody else guaranteeing, you can be absolutely sure that you are running a risk of default. Only if you have a bitcoin in your own wallet, you can be sure that it is the real thing. And with bitcoins there is ultimately no need to remove them from your wallet.

You may still decide to deposit your bitcoins in something like a bank that may be paying interest, but if you do that, you ought to know that you are incurring a certain risk. The higher the interest, the higher the risk.

Dalkore

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Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012

Quote from: Raoul Duke on June 05, 2012, 12:48:56 PM

u mad , bro?

On this subject, yes I am.

nevafuse

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I love these videos, but wish they focused more on fact than speculation.

Even with bitcoin, fractional reserve banking will most likely exist. I realize that if I have extra bitcoins, I can make money off them by lending them out. And some will choose to give it to a bank who will lend it out for them in return for interest. And yes there will be a risk that they will make bad loans. You will have to choose a reputable bank with an interest rate that matches your level of riskiness or not invest at all. Obviously today with the FED controlling rates & everything being FDIC insured, the interest rates aren't much better than stuffing your mattress. But w/o that regulation & those safe guards, lending will show its true colors of riskiness. And the ability to get a loan will be much more difficult since the government won't be able to bail anyone out. Then people will start living a lot closer to their means. And these financial bubbles will disappear.

grue

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Quote from: knight22 on June 05, 2012, 12:34:53 PM

We must do something against this...

yes, let's bump the post after 1 hour because you're so impatient.

wachtwoord

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Haha I think I can get used to being called an optimist Wink

hgmichna

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Optimist!

But I concur—there is always hope. Sometimes things actually turn out better in the end.

wachtwoord

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1. That really depends on your definition of fair
2. Revolution is a sudden drastic change. A lot of the time changes come slowly so no-one notices. This tend to be the changes that are really improvements, they just don't end up in history books.

hgmichna

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Quote from: wachtwoord on July 23, 2012, 03:26:01 PM

But yeah democracy via economic power would be my chosen way of steering society. Preferably without a proxy (such as a government) and direct by economic forces, but through a proxy (government) chosen based on the economic influence of those they have to lead would be a vast improvement over the current retarded everyone is equal system.

I think along similar lines. However, there are two problems with this proposal.

1. Whichever group gets to steer the society will tend to give itself unfair advantages.

2. Once you have the one-man-one-vote democracy, there is no way to give any group more power, because such a proposal will not get a majority. We are stuck with this kind of democracy till the next revolution.

On the other hand one could argue that the power is actually not with the people already today, because the voting behavior is steered by the mass media, which, in turn, are influenced by economic powers and politicians.

--
And the world is a madhouse anyway.

wachtwoord

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Wow I thought that Maggie actually made a law which I thought never happened before after reading your post but the wiki article just reads like poll tax is just another form of property tax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Charge

But yeah democracy via economic power would be my chosen way of steering society. Preferably without a proxy (such as a government) and direct by economic forces, but through a proxy (government) chosen based on the economic influence of those they have to lead would be a vast improvement over the current retarded everyone is equal system.

Some animals are more equal than others Wink

hgmichna

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Quote from: wachtwoord on July 22, 2012, 05:46:04 PM

It is only democracy through election which is useless. Democracy through weighted power distribution can work particularly well.

Weighted by what? By money? Like with Margaret Thatcher's poll tax? That killed her politically and was quickly undone.

wachtwoord

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It is only democracy through election which is useless. Democracy through weighted power distribution can work particularly well.

knight22

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I think it is far way preferable that a democratic government is owning his own money creation than private institutions like the actual system. Otherwise, democracy is useless because it has no real power.

hgmichna

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Quote from: wachtwoord on July 22, 2012, 02:35:33 PM

I certainly prefer the current system over their communistic ideal.

I'm with you, but it has always been like this. Take Karl Marx, for example. In his book "Das Kapital" he served an excellent analysis of the status quo, and that was the valuable part. Then he went on to invent some new society, and that was total nonsense. People are not good at inventing new societies.

That is also the problem of revolutions. They happen when the current situation becomes unbearable for the masses, so they destroy it, leaving a total power vacuum that is then filled with whatever force can take it, without any sensible and realistic plan or vision. Whatever visions there are, they never work well.

So don't underestimate the value of a good analysis. It is all we can hope for. And if we can avoid any kind of revolution and instead make gradual improvements, maybe that's the only good way to go.

wachtwoord

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Yes, the current system is a total scam.

However, the people making that video are fools and ultimately even worse villains.

It's like people pointing out the problems of representative democracy... then advocating communism as the solution.

They don't bring up gold, because they are _not_ in favour of sound money - they simple want a different scam that is in _their_ favour.

Totally this. I was watching the video and thought wtf is their solution? Huh

I certainly prefer the current system over their communistic ideal.

knight22

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Quote from: uuidman on July 03, 2012, 05:34:48 PM

Fact is I just sent him an email giving him an invitation for a helping hand about bitcoin and links to our forum. It would be nice if he feel comfortable using a btc address for donations, which was my idea from the beginning.

I already sent him an email about the same thing. This might be odd but he refused.. I think he prefer working on a centralize governmental currency which can also be a good thing but I'm very pessimistic about his success on this...
For now on, I think Bitcoin is the best solution for us.

uuidman

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Quote from: BrightAnarchist on July 03, 2012, 05:09:01 PM

Very good vid. I don't like their "solutions" much though.

True seems a little to easy and sometimes almost naive, but some parts are really well explained and presented, it makes med like bitcoin even more.

uuidman

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Funny I saw this one on TV yesterday, was just drawn into it somewhere after it had begun. I looked it up on the net and there seems to be sequels made. Fact is I just sent him an email giving him an invitation for a helping hand about bitcoin and links to our forum. It would be nice if he feel comfortable using a btc address for donations, which was my idea from the beginning.

Topic: Biggest Scam Ever!! (Read 6322 times)