Binance is not a Chinese Exchange - page 2.

skarais

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Quote from: Itsmylife on October 11, 2019, 03:07:50 AM

You should say that Binance is controlled by Chinese( CZ's team), but it is worldwide Exchange site.

I do not think Chinese is the owner, but where the company was founded. If binance is located and operating in China, then it is true and it can be said that binance is a Chinese exchange. But if binance is in Malta, then it is Malta exchange even though the owner is Chinese.
What's important to me is, binance can be used by everyone and globally. This is a good exchange. We don't need to argue about the country of its owner.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: Itsmylife on October 11, 2019, 03:07:50 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Changpeng Zhao is a Chinese and he owns binance. Therefore, in a sense it can be said to be a Chinese Exchange. That is my own opinion!

You should say that Binance is controlled by Chinese( CZ's team), but it is worldwide Exchange site.

You are close! The problem is that "Chinese Exchange" can have 2 meanings.
And the fact it's owned by somebody born in China makes too many say it's a "Chinese Exchange" confuses the ones that don't know (nor care!) about the ownership and think about the laws the exchange it has to obey.

"Worldwide exchange" is not really correct either, because it has moved the operations to Malta exactly because of it lax laws, because it doesn't obey the laws of all countries.

audaciousbeing

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Quote from: teosanru on October 10, 2019, 04:20:04 AM

I have lately seen a lots of posts regarding how Binance has introduced trading in Chinese P2P pairs even when BTC exchanges are completely banned by China. The truth is no exchange is operable in China. Binance shifted it's headquarters from China to Malta back when China banned Cryptocurrencies here is the link to Wikipedia page which verifies the fact : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binance

It clearly states that:

Quote

The company was founded in China but moved its servers and headquarters out of China and into Japan in advance of the Chinese government ban on cryptocurrency trading in September 2017.[4] By March 2018 the company had established offices in Taiwan.

So it doesn't comes under the jurisdiction of Chinese Law so there is no need of any Chinese Government permission required by them to operate in CNY p2p pair. It's the people who have to be worried regarding their legality. It's for those people who have started thinking that China has relaxed it's cryptocurrency Laws a bit.

I would disagree with this submission. For the fact that it is not based in China does not remove the fact that its a Chinese business because we have seen nationals of some countries establish businesses in other countries. Now if the majority of the shareholders are Chinese nationals, irrespective of where the business is located, it will and still remain a Chinese business because should in case the individual decides to sell his stake in the business and return home, its still going to be a form of capital inflow to China.

Another thing to note is that, for the fact that you are operating in another territory does not mean you are not covered by the laws of another country. For instance, if a company operating outside the United States should offer services to the citizens of United States, you are by default covered by the applicable laws of that country regarding the kind of services you are offering which is why you see several gambling sites or exchanges and even ICOs specifically ban US citizens and the same thing applies to China. Now why would anyone want to do a China Pair option if not having the mind that Chinese citizens would patronize it.

Itsmylife

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Changpeng Zhao is a Chinese and he owns binance. Therefore, in a sense it can be said to be a Chinese Exchange. That is my own opinion!

You should say that Binance is controlled by Chinese( CZ's team), but it is worldwide Exchange site.

teosanru

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Quote from: stompix on October 10, 2019, 04:49:17 PM

Quote from: teosanru on October 10, 2019, 04:33:07 PM

Quote from: stompix on October 10, 2019, 04:12:40 PM

This document you presented doesn't prove a thing it says that in event of a criminal proceeding Malta would exchange information as necessary for completion of the proceedings and gives an exhaustive list of all the assistance it provides. Have a look at this : http://www.fdi.gov.cn/1800000121_39_4814_0_7.html#_Toc381707458

I give up, it's clear that you don't want to have a discussion you're bent on twisting facts just to prove something
I gave you a treaty between Malta and China that clearly specify that in the event a business is found to be harming the other party, the country where the company is located can initiate freezing and seizures of assets on request. Zhao is a chinse individual, the rules and the treaty applies to him and any business he is involved with.

In order to contradict me you come with...what?
Company Law of the People's Republic of China Huh

What does this have to do with Binance? Oh, it's now a Chinese company? Or it is based in China? Grin

Quote

Article 2: For the purposes of the Law, the term "companies" refers to limited liability companies and companies limited by shares established within the territory of China pursuant to the Law.

Seriously bro, learn to read, take a few minutes to understand, and then type.
And remember, if it quacks in Chinese, it's a Peking Duck. Grin

Well It's pretty clear who doesn't wants to have a discussion. Grin

I showed you Company Law of the People's Republic of China because it doesn't falls under it's definition.

Quote

Article 2: For the purposes of the Law, the term "companies" refers to limited liability companies and companies limited by shares established within the territory of China pursuant to the Law.

Binance was once created in China then dissolved and registered in Malta. Either you are saying that Malta falls in Jurisdiction of China for which I would say you should refer world map or either you are saying that a Binance was so stupid that it didn't do any legal compliance to dissolve in China and just surprisingly showed up in Malta the next day Grin

and if you seriously think one of these is true I find it really funny. You think Binance is so stupid?? Grin

It's pretty clear who needs to learn to read first.

glendall

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but it was true that the origin of binance was established in China, after that because there was a Chinese regulation issue which prohibited BTC binance from moving to Malta and continued to grow until now,
the history of binance at the beginning cannot be forgotten, because after all binance was born in China, so it is actually reasonable and it doesn't matter if binance is indeed a chinese exchange.
different points of view don't matter as long as the point is true and has a reason.

Casdinyard

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Quote from: Velkro on October 10, 2019, 06:38:33 PM

Quote from: stompix on October 10, 2019, 07:35:24 AM

Quote

Binance is not a Chinese Exchange

Yes, it is! It doesn't matter where it is located.

7-eleven has its headquarters in Dallas, but it's owned by a Japanese company.
Holiday Inn operates in the US but it's owned by a British company.
Bitstamp is located n Luxemburg but it's owned by Slovenians.

The moment Zhao‎ makes a mistake and angers a few people in the CPC you will se what kind of exchange Binance is.

Sadly must agree, it is and will be chinese exchange no matter where headquarters moved.
Is it safe to use? That is biggest question here. For sure not store there BTC for long, its a risk like on all exchanges but additionally watch out becauser of the above.

You really shouldn't store cryptos in an exchange for long term, it's an exchange and not a wallet. No matter how you feel secured about the exchange, the vulnerability is still there.

I guess if this really pushes through and we feel there's something shady then it's time for us to decide whether to continue or not. For the meantime, let's see what will be CZ's next move.

Velkro

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Quote from: stompix on October 10, 2019, 07:35:24 AM

Quote

Binance is not a Chinese Exchange

Yes, it is! It doesn't matter where it is located.

7-eleven has its headquarters in Dallas, but it's owned by a Japanese company.
Holiday Inn operates in the US but it's owned by a British company.
Bitstamp is located n Luxemburg but it's owned by Slovenians.

The moment Zhao‎ makes a mistake and angers a few people in the CPC you will se what kind of exchange Binance is.

Sadly must agree, it is and will be chinese exchange no matter where headquarters moved.
Is it safe to use? That is biggest question here. For sure not store there BTC for long, its a risk like on all exchanges but additionally watch out becauser of the above.

Kyraishi

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Quote from: buwaytress on October 10, 2019, 02:46:23 PM

Didn't realise this when I posted earlier but it seems Alipay at least has made a preemptive move. See this post on their official Twitter:

https://twitter.com/Alipay/status/1182193887835672578

"If any transactions are identified as being related to bitcoin or other virtual currencies, @Alipay immediately stops the relevant payment services."

So, that scuppers Binance pretty quickly, or at least is a warning shot to users who might think they could attempt Bitcoin buys through Alipay. I mean, of course Jack Ma wants to be on the Party's good side!

Yikes... It this a foreshadowing of things to come? We've already seen issue with China and crypto-currencies previously although they have taken a more fairer approach to things in the recent years.

If China's second biggest payment processor is being coaxed into not providing services to crypto exchanges, could that mean the Chinese government would be pressuring all big payment processors (like WeChat for example) to cut ties with Binance and other exchanges?

Shasha80

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Thank you for sharing information about Binance exchanges, in fact I just found out that the Binance headquarters is in Malta. I think Binance
headquarters in China, because the owner of Binance is Chinese. Apparently my guess was wrong all this time, but in my personal opinion
Binance is still chinese exchange because no matter where their headquarters is most important who is the owner of Binance. I am amazed by
the figure of Changpeng Zhao, he did a great job, Binance is one of best exchanges cryptocurrency in the world. Many of the advantages
of Binance that make it liked by many people, which I like most from Binance display is complete and easy to understand. And the important
thing is there is no KYC procedure in Binance.

stompix

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Quote from: teosanru on October 10, 2019, 04:33:07 PM

Quote from: stompix on October 10, 2019, 04:12:40 PM

This document you presented doesn't prove a thing it says that in event of a criminal proceeding Malta would exchange information as necessary for completion of the proceedings and gives an exhaustive list of all the assistance it provides. Have a look at this : http://www.fdi.gov.cn/1800000121_39_4814_0_7.html#_Toc381707458

I give up, it's clear that you don't want to have a discussion you're bent on twisting facts just to prove something
I gave you a treaty between Malta and China that clearly specify that in the event a business is found to be harming the other party, the country where the company is located can initiate freezing and seizures of assets on request. Zhao is a chinse individual, the rules and the treaty applies to him and any business he is involved with.

In order to contradict me you come with...what?
Company Law of the People's Republic of China Huh

What does this have to do with Binance? Oh, it's now a Chinese company? Or it is based in China? Grin

Quote

Article 2: For the purposes of the Law, the term "companies" refers to limited liability companies and companies limited by shares established within the territory of China pursuant to the Law.

Seriously bro, learn to read, take a few minutes to understand, and then type.
And remember, if it quacks in Chinese, it's a Peking Duck. Grin

teosanru

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Quote from: stompix on October 10, 2019, 04:12:40 PM

Quote from: teosanru on October 10, 2019, 03:59:31 PM

It's an extradition treaty between China & Malta, How in any sense does it proves that Binance is a Chinese exchange? Binance was once a Chinese exchange but not now absolutely not now merely because it is providing services to people of China? it's providing services to people all over the world? Oh Please tell how do you say it's a Chinese Exchange? Please state the facts about it.

First
It's not an extradition treaty, Malta has no extradition policy with China.
Again, I urge you to read and understand before claiming stuff:

Quote

3. This Treaty does not apply to requests for: (a) arrest; (b) extradition

Second, what kind of company was Binance, Chinese, then Taiwanese, then Japanese then Maltese...oh and it has a headquarter also in Bermuda and Binance Jersey is located...guess where...Jersey so that would make Binance what?
A Maltese pirate with a jersey and bermudas? Grin

It is own by a chinese, it has chinese employees, it's chinese. End of the story!
The moment China decides it wants to take a pick into it or seize the entire business, every country that has a treaty with them will have no choice but to obey that treaty. This is a fact supported by ratified documents. Yours Huh

?

This document you presented doesn't prove a thing it says that in event of a criminal proceeding Malta would exchange information as necessary for completion of the proceedings and gives an exhaustive list of all the assistance it provides. Have a look at this : http://www.fdi.gov.cn/1800000121_39_4814_0_7.html#_Toc381707458

Quote

Article 191: For the purposes of the Law, the term “foreign companies” refers to companies incorporated outside China in accordance with a foreign country’s law.

Binance clearly comes under this as it is incorporated outside China.
Moreover, Binance is not expressly providing any services to Chinese Citizens. It is just providing services in general to the world an Chinese people are a part of the world. So even this is not applicable

Quote

Article 196: The business activities engaged in within China by foreign companies' branches that have been established upon approval shall comply with the law of China and may not harm China's social public interests. The lawful rights and interests of such branches shall be protected by the laws of China.

This fact is supported by the Company Law of China. Which defines every company. So if Binance is not a company of China no Chinese law shall apply on it. The best Chinese government could do is call back all their Chinese Citizen from not working in such a company. I think such employees would have already been prepared for this since day 1 when they came to work for Binance knowing the whole crypto market is banned in their home country

stompix

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Quote from: teosanru on October 10, 2019, 03:59:31 PM

It's an extradition treaty between China & Malta, How in any sense does it proves that Binance is a Chinese exchange? Binance was once a Chinese exchange but not now absolutely not now merely because it is providing services to people of China? it's providing services to people all over the world? Oh Please tell how do you say it's a Chinese Exchange? Please state the facts about it.

First
It's not an extradition treaty, Malta has no extradition policy with China.
Again, I urge you to read and understand before claiming stuff:

Quote

3. This Treaty does not apply to requests for: (a) arrest; (b) extradition

Second, what kind of company was Binance, Chinese, then Taiwanese, then Japanese then Maltese...oh and it has a headquarter also in Bermuda and Binance Jersey is located...guess where...Jersey so that would make Binance what?
A Maltese pirate with a jersey and bermudas? Grin

It is own by a chinese, it has chinese employees, it's chinese. End of the story!
The moment China decides it wants to take a pick into it or seize the entire business, every country that has a treaty with them will have no choice but to obey that treaty. This is a fact supported by ratified documents. Yours Huh

?

teosanru

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Quote from: stompix on October 10, 2019, 03:50:53 PM

Quote from: teosanru on October 10, 2019, 03:39:21 PM

Quote from: stompix on October 10, 2019, 03:07:19 PM

Quote from: teosanru on October 10, 2019, 08:51:54 AM

Yet again the same answer no matter who own's it. In such cases we call it a domestic company with foreign investment. I am speaking this in strict legal sense. As per you cases all companies are companies of where they are registered. Having a headquarters constitutes a principal place of business. Which means the country may say the exchange not to operate in their country but cannot challenge their existence over the globe. While if it's registered in the same country they can scrap the whole company up at once.

Tell that to BTC-e, there was an ocean and two seas between them and the US and that didn't mean anything in the end.
The company is run by a Chinese with Chinese nationality and a Chinese team, you can eat peking duck in Moscow, it's still a chinese dish Tongue

Oh Stompix seriously I have to explain it all? Grin

Can a Chinese dish buy property in it's own name? Can Chinese dish sue people and get sued? Does Chinese dish pays its own taxes? Better compare it like this two Chinese people go to America and give birth to a Child. You know what that person's nationality is? He is an US CITIZEN. Same is the case with companies they are artificial persons.

Why do we have to go into babies comparison when we have a real situation with the same stuff at hand.
And exchange btc-e, located in a country far away from a country which it did not serve, the USA that got nuked.

http://justiceservices.gov.mt/DownloadDocument.aspx?app=gt&itemid=768&l=1

1. The Parties undertake to afford each other in accordance with the provisions of this Treaty, the widest possible measure of mutual assistance in criminal proceedings.
2. Such assistance shall include:
(i)conducting inquiries, tracing of assets, searches, freezing and seizures;

I only talk about facts, you talk about fairty tale scenarios with no evidence other than your wishful thinking...

It's an extradition treaty between China & Malta, How in any sense does it proves that Binance is a Chinese exchange? Binance was once a Chinese exchange but not now absolutely not now merely because it is providing services to people of China? it's providing services to people all over the world? Oh Please tell how do you say it's a Chinese Exchange? Please state the facts about it.

stompix

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Quote from: teosanru on October 10, 2019, 03:39:21 PM

Quote from: stompix on October 10, 2019, 03:07:19 PM

Quote from: teosanru on October 10, 2019, 08:51:54 AM

Yet again the same answer no matter who own's it. In such cases we call it a domestic company with foreign investment. I am speaking this in strict legal sense. As per you cases all companies are companies of where they are registered. Having a headquarters constitutes a principal place of business. Which means the country may say the exchange not to operate in their country but cannot challenge their existence over the globe. While if it's registered in the same country they can scrap the whole company up at once.

Tell that to BTC-e, there was an ocean and two seas between them and the US and that didn't mean anything in the end.
The company is run by a Chinese with Chinese nationality and a Chinese team, you can eat peking duck in Moscow, it's still a chinese dish Tongue

Oh Stompix seriously I have to explain it all? Grin

Can a Chinese dish buy property in it's own name? Can Chinese dish sue people and get sued? Does Chinese dish pays its own taxes? Better compare it like this two Chinese people go to America and give birth to a Child. You know what that person's nationality is? He is an US CITIZEN. Same is the case with companies they are artificial persons.

Why do we have to go into babies comparison when we have a real situation with the same stuff at hand.
And exchange btc-e, located in a country far away from a country which it did not serve, the USA that got nuked.

http://justiceservices.gov.mt/DownloadDocument.aspx?app=gt&itemid=768&l=1

1. The Parties undertake to afford each other in accordance with the provisions of this Treaty, the widest possible measure of mutual assistance in criminal proceedings.
2. Such assistance shall include:
(i)conducting inquiries, tracing of assets, searches, freezing and seizures;

I only talk about facts, you talk about fairty tale scenarios with no evidence other than your wishful thinking...

teosanru

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Quote from: stompix on October 10, 2019, 03:07:19 PM

Quote from: teosanru on October 10, 2019, 08:51:54 AM

Yet again the same answer no matter who own's it. In such cases we call it a domestic company with foreign investment. I am speaking this in strict legal sense. As per you cases all companies are companies of where they are registered. Having a headquarters constitutes a principal place of business. Which means the country may say the exchange not to operate in their country but cannot challenge their existence over the globe. While if it's registered in the same country they can scrap the whole company up at once.

Tell that to BTC-e, there was an ocean and two seas between them and the US and that didn't mean anything in the end.
The company is run by a Chinese with Chinese nationality and a Chinese team, you can eat peking duck in Moscow, it's still a chinese dish Tongue

Oh Stompix seriously I have to explain it all? Grin

Can a Chinese dish buy property in it's own name? Can Chinese dish sue people and get sued? Does Chinese dish pays its own taxes? Better compare it like this two Chinese people go to America and give birth to a Child. You know what that person's nationality is? He is an US CITIZEN. Same is the case with companies they are artificial persons.

Quote from: Eugenar on October 10, 2019, 11:52:14 AM

Quote from: stompix on October 10, 2019, 07:35:24 AM

~

That is what you can call globalization, and technically, glocalization of business such as outsourcing the business or right now, the binance, basically it doesn't matter where it originates, what matter is the person handling it or an entity doing their best to make the market stable such as the binance even though it was being related to china, we can already see how good it performs in the market right now.

Which is Chinese....proving my point again...

Two chinese met in USA handled the baby themselves! Proving my point again.

Quote from: aysg76 on October 10, 2019, 12:34:10 PM

Quote from: stompix on October 10, 2019, 07:35:24 AM

~

Binance is not tangible property like Holiday Inn. It is intellectual property which is equally accessible throughout world. So your comparison doesn't make any sense. .

How tangible were btc-e servers? Grin

Chinese like the baby until He was about to take birth in China. But well he did in USA.

Quote from: aysg76 on October 10, 2019, 12:34:10 PM

Moreover, OP is not addressing the concern regarding ownership of Binance. He is simply answering how Binance can operate in China without taking approval from Chinese authorities because it is legally located in Malta and can create P2P network for any country.

Lol, that made me laugh, you really believe in unicorns, do you?
China doesn't care about it or far more likely they are already running the exchange themselves.
Have you seen what happens to Chinese people that are making the CPC mad? Meng Hongwei? Does it ring a bell?

[/quote]
Oh so you are saying Xi Jinping is calling back that baby home to pay Taxes? Oh Stopmix stop believing fairy tales businesses are not as straight as they seem to be.

Oh yes and don't give me that lame excuse that baby once took birth in China and then went to USA. Simply assume he took up American citizenship and gave up Chinese.

Topic: Binance is not a Chinese Exchange - page 2. (Read 492 times)