Binance is spamming mempool - page 2.

tranthidung

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Quote from: Dave1 on November 15, 2022, 09:31:13 PM

Oh ok, that's why I was surprised yesterday that when I try to withdraw using my Electrum, I'm getting errors message that I need to upgrade or increased my fees

If you use Electrum, you will never have to make any withdrawal which is more relevant to exchanges. On exchanges, you will have to submit your withdrawal request, wait for their approval before they proceed it for you.

With Electrum that is a SPV wallet but non custodial, you simply broadcast your transaction to Bitcoin network, with fee rate is chosen by yourself. You don't need approval from Electrum wallet but have to get confirmations from miners.

Dave1

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Oh ok, that's why I was surprised yesterday that when I try to withdraw using my Electrum, I'm getting errors message that I need to upgrade or increased my fees, which I haven't touch for a while, but yesterday it says the mempool is full and my fee is too low for miners to pick it up.

Not good Binance, not sure what's cooking behind, but they might give a wrong impression on their users for doing consolidation as the timing is bad.

tranthidung

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Quote from: ABCbits on November 15, 2022, 07:55:30 AM

I just checked their current BTC withdraw fee and found it's 0.001BTC (about $16.9). I'm sure the fee was 0.0005BTC or lower few months ago. It's unlikely they perform consolidation with such high fees, so your speculation could be right.

Yesterday, their withdrawal fees are much lower:

0.0005 BTC for Bitcoin Legacy
0.00025 BTC for Bitcoin Segwit

It means they increased withdrawal fees to two times (Legacy) and four times (Segwit) after spamming the mempool (assume it's actually Binance spam, not from others).

Wayback machine recorded it on 13th November as follows

https://web.archive.org/web/20221113220344/https://www.binance.com/en/fee/cryptoFee

coinerer

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Quote from: ABCbits on November 15, 2022, 07:55:30 AM

Quote from: DaveF on November 15, 2022, 07:37:56 AM

Or is he trying to combine his coins for when people start to massively withdraw from his ~~scam~~ exchange so he can charge his users massive fees

I just checked their current BTC withdraw fee and found it's 0.001BTC (about $16.9). I'm sure the fee was 0.0005BTC or lower few months ago. It's unlikely they perform consolidation with such high fees, so your speculation could be right.

It seems that Binance is trying to do some tricks now and they are trying to take everything in their hands. And since the bankruptcy of FTX they have got another big opportunity to do their job and they want to dominate the market alone. And they are trying to increase their reserve fund by taking huge profits from the current market using several other strategies including high Withdraw fees so that they never end up in the same situation as FTX. CZ_Binance is a very smart guy

Mahanton

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 15, 2022, 07:39:21 AM

It's either prevention for mass withdrawals, or the community became more paranoid after the second biggest exchange has scammed the community. For me, it's probably just coincidence. But if it's as a prevention for another exchange "bank run", then I believe the result would be a positive, not only for the exchanges, but for the community as well, no? We don't want another crash.

Paranoid indeed even with those veteran or old timer here on crypto space cant really be able to ignore about being paranoid because we've seen already seen the worst thing that happened which it did really
result into crash. Its totally that the truth that funds is never been safe to be stored on exchanges and now that we've seen these exchange drama then it cant really be avoided not
for you to take action and i dont know about that spamming mempool which it cant really be that possible for a single entity would able to flood out the network
just to stop the massive withdrawal.It is really just too obvious that the community will really be having this impression.

NotATether

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on November 15, 2022, 10:00:15 AM

Meanwhile, they bump their withdrawal fee to absolutely ridiculous levels - 100,000 sats! - to encourage people either not to withdraw at all, or to "withdraw" on one of their centralized scam IOU chains which are not back by real bitcoin at all. I've spoken many times in the past about how Binance's withdrawal fees are literal robbery, and now they've doubled them!

Binance doesn't want my KYC (as did the fallen FTX), so good riddance with them.

Time to reboot discussions for alternative layer 2 protocols, or even better, to work on advancements in technology speed and space capacity that would enable a frighteningly fast & decentralized L1 blockchain. (When ARM?)

stompix

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on November 15, 2022, 11:08:45 AM

The way those pages load up are kinda strange, I fear they may be accessing something from Binance actually, but I don't have the tools to check that.

I know why I make screenshots and save them, seems like also the archive.is sucks at loading pages.
No header but the columns are easy to guess, so at least in April, the fees were the same!

Quote from: stompix on April 29, 2022, 09:24:36 AM

~ can't wait to see a similar move from the two big "spammers", Coinbase and Binance, but in the latter's case I doubt they will do such a thing, they are using the fees as a motivation to have people use their shitty coin.

Seems that neither the fees nor the other thing in that post did change.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: DdmrDdmr on November 15, 2022, 10:52:46 AM

I believe that the image is actually showing the Minimum Withdrawal amount, not the Withdrawal fee, which on the Bitcoin network is 0.0002 BTCs (3,39 $).

I've made the full/correct image with headers too, using data taken now from https://www.binance.com/en/fee/cryptoFee

Quote from: DdmrDdmr on November 15, 2022, 10:52:46 AM

I’ve gone over some of the recent achieved pages on TheWayBackMachine, and at least since May 2022, BTC fees are the same on the Bitcoin Network (no so on other chains):

The way those pages load up are kinda strange, I fear they may be accessing something from Binance actually, but I don't have the tools to check that.

Lucius

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Who remembers what the circumstances were the last time CZ did the same thing - it seems to me that he also chose a moment that was not exactly the best?

Regardless of the fact that it is the legitimate right of everyone to create as many transactions as they want, it could still be done in a less extreme way, and considering everything that has been happening in the last few days, what CZ is doing can certainly raise suspicions that it is not about ordinary consolidation, but trying to hide something or cause even greater panic.

I found a similar topic from 2019 -> ~80 MB transactions with 1 s/b fee were just injected into the mempool

DdmrDdmr

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Quote from: ABCbits on November 15, 2022, 07:55:30 AM

<…>

I believe that the image is actually showing the Minimum Withdrawal amount, not the Withdrawal fee, which on the Bitcoin network is 0.0002 BTCs (3,39 $).

I’ve gone over some of the recent achieved pages on TheWayBackMachine, and at least since May 2022, BTC fees are the same on the Bitcoin Network (no so on other chains):

https://web.archive.org/web/20221113214837/https://www.binance.com/en/fee/cryptoFee
https://web.archive.org/web/20221006095230/https://www.binance.com/en/fee/cryptoFee
https://web.archive.org/web/20220813163621/https://www.binance.com/en/fee/cryptoFee
https://web.archive.org/web/20220512162950/https://www.binance.com/en/fee/cryptoFee

hZti

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on November 15, 2022, 10:34:28 AM

Quote from: DaveF on November 15, 2022, 10:27:03 AM

They have a database that says we have X, they have wallet addresses that say they have Y, due to crap programming they really have Z. Because they have a bunch of addresses with dust that can't move and a bunch more with such small amounts that even at 1 sat / byte it just does not pay to move them.

This is possible, especially as in certain places they work with less digits after decimal point (was it 5?) instead the normal 8 (where I would use actually 9 to be on the safe side).
But:
* I don't think that those satoshi make much of a difference, even if it's for audit
* it's clearly not a good enough reason for such high fees for so many tx, they could have been doing it with minimal fee

It is true that they loose way to much money on this for it being just a normal process. If I would be a user of Binance I would not touch them again. Maybe it is their plan to scare people into withdrawing and accepting the very high fee for it. In the end there is not a problem at all, but they made a huge profit for doling exactly nothing of value. But since nobody knows I would still not leave any Bitcoin in their wallet.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: DaveF on November 15, 2022, 10:27:03 AM

They have a database that says we have X, they have wallet addresses that say they have Y, due to crap programming they really have Z. Because they have a bunch of addresses with dust that can't move and a bunch more with such small amounts that even at 1 sat / byte it just does not pay to move them.

This is possible, especially as in certain places they work with less digits after decimal point (was it 5?) instead the normal 8 (where I would use actually 9 to be on the safe side).
But:
* I don't think that those satoshi make much of a difference, even if it's for audit
* it's clearly not a good enough reason for such high fees for so many tx, they could have been doing it with minimal fee

DaveF

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Quote from: stompix on November 15, 2022, 10:11:45 AM

Quote from: NeuroticFish on November 15, 2022, 08:30:02 AM

You do have a point, but they could:
* do much fewer batches of consolidation if they want to // no need to do all in one day
* do partial consolidations together with the actual user withdrawals (that would be imho a smarter implementation).

Playing devil's advocate (with a disclaimer that I know my client is worse than satan Cheesy

)

- we don't know how many coins they have that they can't actually spend, and we don't know if they are not scraping every satoshi at this point
- maybe the wallets are under different supervision? Actually, this does make a lot of sense to me as I would want to limit the access of every single individual.
Yeah, it's a stretch but this is the best I can come up with.

Quote from: stompix on November 15, 2022, 08:21:40 AM

* what if, while we were cheering this year for how much bitcoin has left the exchanges in 2022, this was more due stealing/working on fractional reserve than user withdrawals? (I know, this may be a bit paranoid though).

Highly possible!
I've said like ten times this week, all these companies have costs to run, if there is no money flow they will need to either take loans or find "investors", when these options run out, you touch the honeypot and you promise yourself you will cover the losses tomorrow, then next month and so on.

To be honest, this is so messed up I don't know what will be good or bad for the ecosystem right now, I'm wondering if those morons have played with a fractional reserve, and they don't have our coins if a bulls run starts, we hit 100k and everyone rushes to sell and take the profit, will the inflow be able to cover the losses or they won't be able to buy back the coins and honor the deposit, triggering a drop worse than ever?

The other possibility, which I thought of while sitting in the bathroom, what if they are really so messed up on the back end they don't know how much money they can pull together.

They have a database that says we have X, they have wallet addresses that say they have Y, due to crap programming they really have Z. Because they have a bunch of addresses with dust that can't move and a bunch more with such small amounts that even at 1 sat / byte it just does not pay to move them.

They have done this before, the combining of a massive amounts of coins, and unless it is for security or audit reasons there is no point to do it except for manipulation or profit.
I will say that security and audit are both weak in my opinion. Security should be the same for 1 sat or 1000BTC
Audit should also not matter you either have the funds or you don't.

-Dave

stompix

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on November 15, 2022, 08:30:02 AM

You do have a point, but they could:
* do much fewer batches of consolidation if they want to // no need to do all in one day
* do partial consolidations together with the actual user withdrawals (that would be imho a smarter implementation).

Playing devil's advocate (with a disclaimer that I know my client is worse than satan Cheesy

)

- we don't know how many coins they have that they can't actually spend, and we don't know if they are not scraping every satoshi at this point
- maybe the wallets are under different supervision? Actually, this does make a lot of sense to me as I would want to limit the access of every single individual.
Yeah, it's a stretch but this is the best I can come up with.

Quote from: stompix on November 15, 2022, 08:21:40 AM

* what if, while we were cheering this year for how much bitcoin has left the exchanges in 2022, this was more due stealing/working on fractional reserve than user withdrawals? (I know, this may be a bit paranoid though).

Highly possible!
I've said like ten times this week, all these companies have costs to run, if there is no money flow they will need to either take loans or find "investors", when these options run out, you touch the honeypot and you promise yourself you will cover the losses tomorrow, then next month and so on.

To be honest, this is so messed up I don't know what will be good or bad for the ecosystem right now, I'm wondering if those morons have played with a fractional reserve, and they don't have our coins if a bulls run starts, we hit 100k and everyone rushes to sell and take the profit, will the inflow be able to cover the losses or they won't be able to buy back the coins and honor the deposit, triggering a drop worse than ever?

Woodie

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Quote from: ABCbits on November 15, 2022, 07:55:30 AM

I just checked their current BTC withdraw fee and found it's 0.001BTC (about $16.9). I'm sure the fee was 0.0005BTC or lower few months ago. It's unlikely they perform consolidation with such high fees, so your speculation could be right.

CZ at it again, if he isn't covering up something... maybe trying to raise funds to help other exchanges that reached out for some financial help without using his emergency fund and this is certainly one way to cash in easy through TX fees.

If not this could be a monopoly game that is aimed to cause panic that will hurt smaller exchanges and will all be at his doorstep for financial aid.

o_e_l_e_o

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As I mentioned earlier in another thread, it is not impossible that there is a malicious reason behind Binance specifically choosing to this now, when they could instead of done it at 1 sat/vbyte at a steady stream any time over the last many months, saving themselves a huge amount in unnecessary fees in the process. Perhaps that is what they were planning to do in the future, but are now in the midst of their own liquidity issues and are scrambling to consolidate everything they can to keep processing withdrawals.

Meanwhile, they bump their withdrawal fee to absolutely ridiculous levels - 100,000 sats! - to encourage people either not to withdraw at all, or to "withdraw" on one of their centralized scam IOU chains which are not back by real bitcoin at all. I've spoken many times in the past about how Binance's withdrawal fees are literal robbery, and now they've doubled them!

Honestly, if you still have coins on Binance thinking they are "too big to fail" or some other such nonsense, not only are you wrong and risking everything, but you are also being massively ripped off by these charlatans.

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Quote from: Queentoshi on November 15, 2022, 09:19:59 AM

Could this be related to this.

I initiated a transaction on my electrum wallet (almost 24hour now) and that has been the error message saying that ''my transaction fee is too low to fit into its mempool, that there are many other transactions with higher paying fees, and I should increase my fee.''

Yes, you should increase your fee for your transaction to get into the mempool.

Or you can try using mempool feature under fee tab instead of static or other so you can choose how much fee required for the next block.

Also you can use https://mempool.space/ to know required fee for fast confirmation.

Queentoshi

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Could this be related to this.

I initiated a transaction on my electrum wallet (almost 24hour now) and that has been the error message saying that ''my transaction fee is too low to fit into its mempool, that there are many other transactions with higher paying fees, and I should increase my fee.''

Topic: Binance is spamming mempool - page 2. (Read 772 times)