Binance to integrate lightning network

Oshosondy

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Quote from: Yamane_Keto on June 23, 2023, 06:17:51 AM

I am afraid that there will be an option to withdraw wrapped tokens on the Lightning Network, that they obtain bitcoins from customers and sell them fake tokens that have no guaranteed value, and just because its value is equal to 1 bitcoin, this does not mean that it has value.

Wrapped token on lightning network? It is not a matter of guessing, it is not possible.

Quote from: Rikafip on June 24, 2023, 01:42:12 AM

Quote from: Oshosondy on June 20, 2023, 10:04:25 AM

If other exchanges follow Binance to integrate lightning network payment for bitcoin transaction, more people will use lightning network.

There's already quite a few exchanges that integrated lightning network like Kraken, Bitfinex, Bithumb, Bitstamp, OkeX, Bitmex etc (you can gind full list here so Binance is not really leader in that regard.

With that being said, Binance has by far the most users so them implemeting LN will have more effect than the others. Another big exchanges that sort of announced that they plan to implement LN (their CEO mentioned it few months ago) but unfortunately no news regarding that.

We have talked about this in some threads in the past, you can check a topic I posted long time ago about exchanges that are supporting lightning network for people to take advantage of low fee lightning network on such exchangs:

Using lightning for bitcoin low fee on exchanges

Also another is the lists on this thread:

Congested mempool & LN

But just that to every wallet and exchange that is supporting lightning network for bitcoin payment, lightning network usage will increase. And as you said, Binance is not a small exchange, it is the biggest exchange in the world and which will help in lightning network usage.

Rikafip

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Quote from: Oshosondy on June 20, 2023, 10:04:25 AM

If other exchanges follow Binance to integrate lightning network payment for bitcoin transaction, more people will use lightning network.

There's already quite a few exchanges that integrated lightning network like Kraken, Bitfinex, Bithumb, Bitstamp, OkeX, Bitmex etc (you can gind full list here so Binance is not really leader in that regard.

With that being said, Binance has by far the most users so them implemeting LN will have more effect than the others. Another big exchanges that sort of announced that they plan to implement LN (their CEO mentioned it few months ago) but unfortunately no news regarding that.

joniboini

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Quote from: Yamane_Keto on June 23, 2023, 06:17:51 AM

It won't because they can simply perform a hard fork and restart the network by deleting the malicious validator.

At the very least there would be some discussion about it. Seeing how they fail to obtain licenses left and right lately, things like that might become additional problems that can snowball and affect their reputation. But yeah, we'll see when it does happen.

Quote from: Yamane_Keto on June 23, 2023, 06:17:51 AM

I went to Binance academic to find out about the risks and they didn't mention much:

That is not surprising. It is obviously against their interest to explicitly mention the risk of wrapped tokens. People should look at other sources if they want a better comparison since some academy or learning resources might be skewed if they are owned by exchange or other crypto services.

Yamane_Keto

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Quote from: joniboini on June 22, 2023, 10:51:43 PM

From a business perspective, they're being really aggressive to encourage users to use their network. Would be funny if it backfires because one of their validators got exploited or fail later on.

It won't because they can simply perform a hard fork and restart the network by deleting the malicious validator.

Quote from: joniboini on June 22, 2023, 10:51:43 PM

They should educate people more about wrapped tokens if they wanted to do it this way.

I am afraid that there will be an option to withdraw wrapped tokens on the Lightning Network, that they obtain bitcoins from customers and sell them fake tokens that have no guaranteed value, and just because its value is equal to 1 bitcoin, this does not mean that it has value.

I went to Binance academic to find out about the risks and they didn't mention much:

Quote

While Bitcoin has some fantastic properties, it isn’t the fastest and can sometimes be expensive to use. While that’s fine for what it is, it can cause some headaches sometimes. These issues can be mitigated by using a wrapped version on a blockchain with faster transaction times and lower fees.
The implementations of these tokens can be very different. We wrote about them in more detail in our tokenized Bitcoin article.

https://academy.binance.com/en/articles/what-are-wrapped-tokens

coupable

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Quote from: PX-Z on June 20, 2023, 05:52:14 PM

Quote from: coupable on June 20, 2023, 05:19:03 PM

...

Oh so there are lots of them already, yet it was implemented almost 2 years ago already while binance and coinbase is yet to add it on their platform.

Quote from: coupable on June 20, 2023, 05:19:03 PM

...

Binance is the worst in bitcoin withdrawal fees, they charge 3-5 times or even higher even the network is not congested.

Your second sentence explains the first sentence.
The platforms that are gaining more popularity were among the last to meet the modernization of the Lightning Network in order to take advantage of the withdrawal fees as long as possible. Even when the fees for confirming transactions increased, the most that Binance did was promises to add the update of the Lightning network without specifying a time limit for that, although this does not technically cost much effort. Today, she finds herself compelled to do so in order not to lose more clients after the pressures she is exposed to from the SEC .

Oshosondy

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Quote from: m2017 on June 22, 2023, 11:41:22 AM

And here you are right. Most users will not create their own nodes. Will this affect decentralization? We'll see.

Because of the lightning network technicalities, people can not go through the stress of the technical know how about having lightning nodes, setting up a channel and making use of noncustodial lightning wallets for it. Even on some wallets that are noncustodial, you can see a centralized lightning network on it in a way that only what the wallet users needs is the payment invoice, just as it was on Bluewallet before.

Quote from: Husires on June 22, 2023, 09:01:53 PM

This is very funny, the fee for withdrawing to BEP20 is cheaper than the fee for withdrawing to the real blockchain in filecoin, it was mainly promoted because using BEP20 is cheaper and faster. It is difficult to find a faster blockchain than BSC because they are fully centralized, there are only 21 validators and these validators are all connected to Binance even if there is an error Smart Chain will be Halted.

I mean the fee for withdrawing filecoin is cheaper, yet Binance ki6ed about faster confirmation for its BEP20.

Do not trust what you see Binance doing. Filecoin transfer from noncustodial wallet to another noncustodial wallet takes some seconds, not more than 15 to 20 seconds. You can try that if you think that I am wrong. Although, its withdrawal on Binance is also fast but they are representing it wrongly.

joniboini

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Quote from: Oshosondy on June 22, 2023, 03:19:33 AM

I have noticed Binance doing this manipulation since, not only for bitcoin but also for altcoins. Let me give you an example, as you can see in this image for filecoin withdrawal:

They really want those fees huh. I guess they will somehow turn their lightning integration to promote BSC even further by introducing an LN fork for BSC, for example. From a business perspective, they're being really aggressive to encourage users to use their network. Would be funny if it backfires because one of their validators got exploited or fail later on.

Quote from: Oshosondy on June 22, 2023, 03:19:33 AM

I have withdrawn filecoin before in the past and the withdrawal time is very fast within seconds. I am wondering why the need for those altcoins with cheaper fee to be tokenized on other blockchain like BSC because they have faster withdrawal time.

They should educate people more about wrapped tokens if they wanted to do it this way. It is really irresponsible for them to encourage the usage of wrapped tokens without telling people that those are not the same as the mainnet coin. It doesn't really get better since more and more developers are encouraging this kind of practice to get better liquidity.

rat03gopoh

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Quote from: Husires on June 22, 2023, 09:01:53 PM

there are only 21 validators and these validators are all connected to Binance even if there is an error Smart Chain will be Halted.

Well, here's the answer.
Binance would be fine even if they set out the highest gas to broadcast their withdrawal transactions exclusively to all existing validators. The fact is that it's not a loss at all, all the rewards earned will return to the binance pocket again. Grin

Husires

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Quote from: Oshosondy on June 22, 2023, 03:19:33 AM

I have withdrawn filecoin before in the past and the withdrawal time is very fast within seconds. I am wondering why the need for those altcoins with cheaper fee to be tokenized on other blockchain like BSC because they have faster withdrawal time. Just like this filecoin, the withdrawal is fast and it has cheaper fee which is the main network. Binance estimated the withdraw time to be 40 minutes which is just manipulation.

This is very funny, the fee for withdrawing to BEP20 is cheaper than the fee for withdrawing to the real blockchain in filecoin, it was mainly promoted because using BEP20 is cheaper and faster. It is difficult to find a faster blockchain than BSC because they are fully centralized, there are only 21 validators and these validators are all connected to Binance even if there is an error Smart Chain will be Halted.

Binance Smart Chain Halted Over 'Potential Exploit,'

Quote

The initial announcement was posted to Twitter by BNB Chain at 9:19 pm EDT, saying there would be a temporary pause on the BSC network. By 9:35 pm EDT, however, the network pause turned into a halt.

m2017

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Quote from: Oshosondy on June 20, 2023, 10:04:25 AM

~snip

This is not at all surprising, after the previous overload of the bitcoin mempool, when the binance even suspended withdrawals for some time. The management of this exchange understands the need to integrate lightning network, which will allow their users to make cheap and fast transactions.

Binance is the current leader crypto industry among exchangers and their actions will no doubt set an example for others. I predict that other exchanges will also integrate lightning network, because the problem of the overload of the mem-pool also concerned them.

And here you are right. Most users will not create their own nodes. Will this affect decentralization? We'll see.

Oshosondy

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Quote from: joniboini on June 21, 2023, 09:18:38 PM

Doesn't it seem like Binance is charging way too much because they use the same fee as BTC (0.0001 based on your image)? I don't think it cost that much to transfer wrapped tokens on ETH unless the network is heavily congested. I guess they do this to prevent users to abuse it and at the same time misleadingly led them to believe that Binance chain is the better alternative because it is cheaper. CMIIW.

Quote from: Husires on June 21, 2023, 10:20:32 PM

[Note the attempts to indirectly promote BSC, cheaper fees and less confirmation time, as on average, the transaction confirmation time is supposed to be from 10 minutes to half an hour, but they mentioned an hour as an average, which is a very far estimate.

THIS IS NOT A RECOMMENDATION FOR ANY ALTCOIN BUT JUST MORE EXAMPLE TO HOW BINANCE IS DISCOURAGING PEOPLE NOT TO USE THE MAIN NETWORK BUT TO USE BSC WITH LIES.

I have noticed Binance doing this manipulation since, not only for bitcoin but also for altcoins. Let me give you an example, as you can see in this image for filecoin withdrawal:

I have withdrawn filecoin before in the past and the withdrawal time is very fast within seconds. I am wondering why the need for those altcoins with cheaper fee to be tokenized on other blockchain like BSC because they have faster withdrawal time. Just like this filecoin, the withdrawal is fast and it has cheaper fee which is the main network. Binance estimated the withdraw time to be 40 minutes which is just manipulation.

Husires

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Quote from: Oshosondy on June 21, 2023, 04:38:16 AM

wBTC withdrawal fee on Binance is 0.0001 wBTC. With its price at $28992, the withdrawal fee in United States dollars is $2.89, which is expensive it is only on Ethereum blockchain (ERC20) if compared to BEP2 and BSC.

Note the attempts to indirectly promote BSC, cheaper fees and less confirmation time, as on average, the transaction confirmation time is supposed to be from 10 minutes to half an hour, but they mentioned an hour as an average, which is a very far estimate.
When you compare the fees, you will inevitably choose BSC because it is the cheapest compared to all networks, but I was surprised that the withdrawal fee is 0.0001. I thought it was much more. or 0.0001 for wBTC not for BTC.

Quote from: joniboini on June 21, 2023, 09:18:38 PM

I guess they do this to prevent users to abuse it and at the same time misleadingly led them to believe that Binance chain is the better alternative because it is cheaper. CMIIW.

Not only that, but an attempt to falsify the facts by mentioning the average hour.

joniboini

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Quote from: Oshosondy on June 21, 2023, 04:38:16 AM

All the coins are altcoins and not bitcoin, except the one with only bitcoin in the image which is the bitcoin. I am just saying that wBTC on Binance is also expensive because it is ERC20 token.

Doesn't it seem like Binance is charging way too much because they use the same fee as BTC (0.0001 based on your image)? I don't think it cost that much to transfer wrapped tokens on ETH unless the network is heavily congested. I guess they do this to prevent users to abuse it and at the same time misleadingly led them to believe that Binance chain is the better alternative because it is cheaper. CMIIW.

Oshosondy

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Quote from: Bitcoin_Arena on June 20, 2023, 04:57:06 PM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on June 20, 2023, 12:35:22 PM

I'm surprised to see that tweet. I was really expecting them to cancel their plans to implement LN after the fees lowered, especially when they're always trying to push their own version of BTC (WBTC).

Not just WBTC but Bitcoin BEP20 and Bitcoin BEP2 Grin

Quote from: Husires on June 21, 2023, 12:00:53 AM

These options will cause a headache for beginners, imagine that there are 7 ways to withdraw bitcoins and that the cheapest options will be WBTC and Bitcoin BEP20 and there are uses for them or LN without the option to direct exchange it, beginners will definitely prefer WBTC.

wBTC withdrawal fee on Binance is 0.0001 wBTC. With its price at $28992, the withdrawal fee in United States dollars is $2.89, which is expensive it is only on Ethereum blockchain (ERC20) if compared to BEP2 and BSC.

All the coins are altcoins and not bitcoin, except the one with only bitcoin in the image which is the bitcoin. I am just saying that wBTC on Binance is also expensive because it is ERC20 token.

Husires

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Quote from: Bitcoin_Arena on June 20, 2023, 04:57:06 PM

Not just WBTC but Bitcoin BEP20 and Bitcoin BEP2 Grin

These options will cause a headache for beginners, imagine that there are 7 ways to withdraw bitcoins and that the cheapest options will be WBTC and Bitcoin BEP20 and there are uses for them or LN without the option to direct exchange it, beginners will definitely prefer WBTC.

The withdrawal fee for the network will be the highest in all cases, and it will be the last option for beginners, while it is the one that represents his bitcoins. Therefore, I hope that the solution to reduce these fees is more than adopting the Lightning Network, which may be useful for small payments less than $ 100.

Quote from: Darker45 on June 20, 2023, 08:40:20 PM

Anyway, with the entry of Binance and Coinbase and other huge exchanges I'm expecting the Lightning Network capacity to balloon. At the moment, there's just around $145 million.

If merchants accept payments with LN, then a shift will occur.

noorman0

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Quote from: PX-Z on June 20, 2023, 05:52:14 PM

Oh so there are lots of them already, yet it was implemented almost 2 years ago already while binance and coinbase is yet to add it on their platform.

The reason may be obvious, because LN will cut their business revenue even if this feature becomes mainstream among competitors and of course slow down the mass adoption of their custom bitcoin token.

I'm also slightly guessing that their LN feature will have additional limitations that it shouldn't normally need. Just see what will happen.

Darker45

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All right, so this was the same announcement that Binance made last month. The actual work must have started even earlier. It's already around 2 months and the integration hasn't been fully implemented yet. I guess this isn't really an urgent concern for Binance. The same with Coinbase. Brian has already spoken of integrating Lightning early in April. As a matter of fact, this might even be an addition they don't really want considering that their revenue from current transactions fees could be significantly affected.

Anyway, with the entry of Binance and Coinbase and other huge exchanges I'm expecting the Lightning Network capacity to balloon. At the moment, there's just around $145 million.

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Quote from: coupable on June 20, 2023, 05:19:03 PM

Binance may be a little late in making this update, especially since it was not really interested in allocating enough effort to provide this service during the network crisis period. Nor is it ever proactive in integrating this development, since many trading platforms had preceded it in doing so, such as Kraken, OKex, Okcoin, Bitfinex, and many others.

Oh so there are lots of them already, yet it was implemented almost 2 years ago already while binance and coinbase is yet to add it on their platform.

Quote from: coupable on June 20, 2023, 05:19:03 PM

And do not forget the fees imposed on withdrawals in bitcoins, which are among the highest in the market. Binance is benefiting from its position as one of the largest players in the crypto market, which explains all this delay in supporting the Lightning Network.

Binance is the worst in bitcoin withdrawal fees, they charge 3-5 times or even higher even the network is not congested.

coupable

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Quote from: Oshosondy on June 20, 2023, 10:04:25 AM

If other exchanges follow Binance to integrate lightning network payment for bitcoin transaction, more people will use lightning network.

Binance may be a little late in making this update, especially since it was not really interested in allocating enough effort to provide this service during the network crisis period. Nor is it ever proactive in integrating this development, since many trading platforms had preceded it in doing so, such as Kraken, OKex, Okcoin, Bitfinex, and many others.

Quote

I think they were reluctant because they wanted to promote their copy-paste blockchain.

And do not forget the fees imposed on withdrawals in bitcoins, which are among the highest in the market. Binance is benefiting from its position as one of the largest players in the crypto market, which explains all this delay in supporting the Lightning Network.

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on June 20, 2023, 12:35:22 PM

I'm surprised to see that tweet. I was really expecting them to cancel their plans to implement LN after the fees lowered, especially when they're always trying to push their own version of BTC (WBTC).

Not just WBTC but Bitcoin BEP20 and Bitcoin BEP2 Grin

Quote from: Yamane_Keto on June 20, 2023, 03:40:05 PM

Does the Lightning Network need all this time to write such a system for deposits and withdrawals?

It doesn't, there are exchanges that implemented LN in 2018-2019. If small exchanges could do that, then why not Binance. I think they were reluctant because they wanted to promote their copy-paste blockchain.

Quote

Binance is making good money on withdrawal fees, and they won't leave those profits unless there is competition, which isn't happening now,

The competition is already on. Kraken, Bitfinix, OKx etc. already made such implementation. Another wave of very high withdrawal fees, and we will see more exchanges follow the trend.

Topic: Binance to integrate lightning network (Read 273 times)