Just an update:
Got another single ticket purchase this morning.
Topic: Bit-Syndicate - A Bitcoin Lottery Syndicate [Restarted!!!!!] - page 3. (Read 4577 times)
Hey there. I just need some confirmation that you would never change the payout method(currently proportional) in the middle of a round. I put in my bets in under the condition that payout is proportional. Thanks!
No I definitely wouldn't change it mid-round. To be honest I can't see any real benefit of having an 'equal' payout method.
Hey there. I just need some confirmation that you would never change the payout method(currently proportional) in the middle of a round. I put in my bets in under the condition that payout is proportional. Thanks!
Why didn't I think of this!! Good idea!
Another possibility:
You publish an address for the syndicate. Everyone pays whatever they want. Even tiny amounts. Then whenever you get enough BTC to buy tickets you buy them throughout the month. Fees just come out of the wallet used for the account. Waiting till the very end could be risky if the network gets really busy. Remember that late payments will be returned but you wouldn't want ALL the tickets to be returned. If the syndicate wins you could then look at every deposit made. Calculate the % of total funds deposited for each payment and pay the winnings based on the % minus a small fee for each. Late returned payments could be divided up in this way too. If you over guess the fee amount you could just put the remainder into the next months draw.
You publish an address for the syndicate. Everyone pays whatever they want. Even tiny amounts. Then whenever you get enough BTC to buy tickets you buy them throughout the month. Fees just come out of the wallet used for the account. Waiting till the very end could be risky if the network gets really busy. Remember that late payments will be returned but you wouldn't want ALL the tickets to be returned. If the syndicate wins you could then look at every deposit made. Calculate the % of total funds deposited for each payment and pay the winnings based on the % minus a small fee for each. Late returned payments could be divided up in this way too. If you over guess the fee amount you could just put the remainder into the next months draw.
No you where quite right in doing it proportionally. Every ticket sold increases the chance of the syndicate to win. If you buy 5 shares you should get 5 parts of the win, similarly to the lottery overall.
The charge is fair, you should however make it clear that this is the only cut you take, as its actually rather low. Considering that from the 0.01 you pay 0.0005 per ticket to actually purchase the lottery ticket.
I would NOT run a second syndicate as this would further complicate things. For example taking the big lottery you could simply divide it in shares. A ticket costs 0.25 BTC which is a barrier of entry for some newer players. You with the syndicate are in the perfect spot to enable low rollers to take part in it. Set a fixed ratio of for example 1/10. So each share costs 0.025 BTC + 0.01 in fee's (that might be much as price is so low but would encourage to buy more shares at once so less work for you). Then offer to sell any number of shares. If I would buy 20 shares for example I would actually be paying for two full tickets, its just written differently.
The risk you then have is that in the end you might end up having sold for example 101 shares, enough for 10 tickets but you are lacking 9 shares or 90% of the last ticket price. This is the worst case scenario. Either invalidate the share bought last (you have to be up front about it) or "swallow" the risk and force yourself to buy the last 9 shares for yourself which likely you wont mind as you want to part take anyway (which I think is not a problem at all).
Also you should set a deadline x hours before the draw to ensure you have time to actually purchase all tickets (as you do it manually) and for the tickets to make it into blocks in time.
The charge is fair, you should however make it clear that this is the only cut you take, as its actually rather low. Considering that from the 0.01 you pay 0.0005 per ticket to actually purchase the lottery ticket.
I would NOT run a second syndicate as this would further complicate things. For example taking the big lottery you could simply divide it in shares. A ticket costs 0.25 BTC which is a barrier of entry for some newer players. You with the syndicate are in the perfect spot to enable low rollers to take part in it. Set a fixed ratio of for example 1/10. So each share costs 0.025 BTC + 0.01 in fee's (that might be much as price is so low but would encourage to buy more shares at once so less work for you). Then offer to sell any number of shares. If I would buy 20 shares for example I would actually be paying for two full tickets, its just written differently.
The risk you then have is that in the end you might end up having sold for example 101 shares, enough for 10 tickets but you are lacking 9 shares or 90% of the last ticket price. This is the worst case scenario. Either invalidate the share bought last (you have to be up front about it) or "swallow" the risk and force yourself to buy the last 9 shares for yourself which likely you wont mind as you want to part take anyway (which I think is not a problem at all).
Also you should set a deadline x hours before the draw to ensure you have time to actually purchase all tickets (as you do it manually) and for the tickets to make it into blocks in time.
Ah I really really like the share idea. I had to read it a few times to fully get it but I suppose it is 2:30 am here lol. I guess I'd probably 'swallow' the risk as you put it as the alternative would be kind of annoying to manage. At first I thought the math would be harder to work out what each share was worth if the syndicate won but it's just as easy as if it was per ticket. I'll have a good hard think about that... but I really do like the idea as it'll allow those that can only afford to play BitLotto Jr to get involved with the main BitLotto.
The deadline is actually 24 hours before the draw takes place. It does say that on the site, not put it on here though.
No you where quite right in doing it proportionally. Every ticket sold increases the chance of the syndicate to win. If you buy 5 shares you should get 5 parts of the win, similarly to the lottery overall.
The charge is fair, you should however make it clear that this is the only cut you take, as its actually rather low. Considering that from the 0.01 you pay 0.0005 per ticket to actually purchase the lottery ticket.
I would NOT run a second syndicate as this would further complicate things. For example taking the big lottery you could simply divide it in shares. A ticket costs 0.25 BTC which is a barrier of entry for some newer players. You with the syndicate are in the perfect spot to enable low rollers to take part in it. Set a fixed ratio of for example 1/10. So each share costs 0.025 BTC + 0.01 in fee's (that might be much as price is so low but would encourage to buy more shares at once so less work for you). Then offer to sell any number of shares. If I would buy 20 shares for example I would actually be paying for two full tickets, its just written differently.
The risk you then have is that in the end you might end up having sold for example 101 shares, enough for 10 tickets but you are lacking 9 shares or 90% of the last ticket price. This is the worst case scenario. Either invalidate the share bought last (you have to be up front about it) or "swallow" the risk and force yourself to buy the last 9 shares for yourself which likely you wont mind as you want to part take anyway (which I think is not a problem at all).
Also you should set a deadline x hours before the draw to ensure you have time to actually purchase all tickets (as you do it manually) and for the tickets to make it into blocks in time.
The charge is fair, you should however make it clear that this is the only cut you take, as its actually rather low. Considering that from the 0.01 you pay 0.0005 per ticket to actually purchase the lottery ticket.
I would NOT run a second syndicate as this would further complicate things. For example taking the big lottery you could simply divide it in shares. A ticket costs 0.25 BTC which is a barrier of entry for some newer players. You with the syndicate are in the perfect spot to enable low rollers to take part in it. Set a fixed ratio of for example 1/10. So each share costs 0.025 BTC + 0.01 in fee's (that might be much as price is so low but would encourage to buy more shares at once so less work for you). Then offer to sell any number of shares. If I would buy 20 shares for example I would actually be paying for two full tickets, its just written differently.
The risk you then have is that in the end you might end up having sold for example 101 shares, enough for 10 tickets but you are lacking 9 shares or 90% of the last ticket price. This is the worst case scenario. Either invalidate the share bought last (you have to be up front about it) or "swallow" the risk and force yourself to buy the last 9 shares for yourself which likely you wont mind as you want to part take anyway (which I think is not a problem at all).
Also you should set a deadline x hours before the draw to ensure you have time to actually purchase all tickets (as you do it manually) and for the tickets to make it into blocks in time.
I believe that a proportional system would be better in the main BitLotto, because with the large jackpot, it wouldn't be fair if someone who bought one ticket got the same amount as someone who bought ten tickets.
Ah yes that is why I made it proportional in the first place.
It may well turn out that the winnings from the BitLotto Jr may be quite small... however the chances of winning it multiple times will be quite high so in some respects it all balances out.
I'm definitely making sure that as a syndicate we don't dominate ticket sales as that would mean the winnings per ticket would be tiny. So it may end up that the syndicates may close early if we have bought too many... then open again as our percentage of the overall ticket sales decreases. It'll just take a little extra management on my end... it shouldn't be a problem though, especially for the big BitLotto draw.
I believe that a proportional system would be better in the main BitLotto, because with the large jackpot, it wouldn't be fair if someone who bought one ticket got the same amount as someone who bought ten tickets.
How are you planning on dividing up the winnings from the lottery? Will they be split equally, or proportionally depending on the number of tickets a person has purchased?
The winnings at the moment are divided proportionally. I may change this if it turns out one user is simply buying 10's of tickets making it worthless to other players. Or, depending on the amount of people playing, I might have a proportional syndicate and a equal syndicate for those that can only afford one ticket. The issue with the 'equal' payment is that it would be really difficult to 'police' as a one player could simply buy tickets from different wallets.
Do you think splitting equally would be better?
It is proportional at the moment. I doubt it will be changing unless I find that one player is buying loads of tickets making single ticket players worthless.
Feel free to join in
As a side note I'll be starting the main BitLotto draw syndicate next week. I just want to finish the first BitLotto Jr draw first to iron everything out.
How are you planning on dividing up the winnings from the lottery? Will they be split equally, or proportionally depending on the number of tickets a person has purchased?
The winnings at the moment are divided proportionally. I may change this if it turns out one user is simply buying 10's of tickets making it worthless to other players. Or, depending on the amount of people playing, I might have a proportional syndicate and a equal syndicate for those that can only afford one ticket. The issue with the 'equal' payment is that it would be really difficult to 'police' as a one player could simply buy tickets from different wallets.
Do you think splitting equally would be better?
How are you planning on dividing up the winnings from the lottery? Will they be split equally, or proportionally depending on the number of tickets a person has purchased?
The winnings at the moment are divided proportionally. I may change this if it turns out one user is simply buying 10's of tickets making it worthless to other players. Or, depending on the amount of people playing, I might have a proportional syndicate and a equal syndicate for those that can only afford one ticket. The issue with the 'equal' payment is that it would be really difficult to 'police' as a one player could simply buy tickets from different wallets.
Do you think splitting equally would be better?
How are you planning on dividing up the winnings from the lottery? Will they be split equally, or proportionally depending on the number of tickets a person has purchased?
I do like the idea, however you should make clear if and how much of a cut you take for running the syndicate. Currently you say + 0.01 per order, is that all you take? (Would leave you with the difference of cost of purchasing ticket transaction fees of 0.005 x tickets sold, not a lot of "profit" for you).
In addition for "bigger" lotteries you should consider shares in single tickets. This would enable low rollers to take part in the big jackpots.
Wish you good luck with the syndicate. Actually I might purchase a few tickets trough it soon. Long term you might want to automate the ticket purchasing to reduce effort required by you. Also using a specific wallet / hash to purchase tickets from is a great idea by bitlotto.
In addition for "bigger" lotteries you should consider shares in single tickets. This would enable low rollers to take part in the big jackpots.
Wish you good luck with the syndicate. Actually I might purchase a few tickets trough it soon. Long term you might want to automate the ticket purchasing to reduce effort required by you. Also using a specific wallet / hash to purchase tickets from is a great idea by bitlotto.
Basically my cut is the 0.01 per order. This might be slightly bigger or 0.01 per ticket for the main BitLotto game; I'm not really sure yet. Or maybe it could increase slightly with the amount of tickets ordered... maybe like 0.01 per two tickets.
My main profit from this essentially comes from the fact that I'll be part of the syndicate myself from time to time. I bought three tickets myself for this round.
It's all a work in progress though. Prices may change or whatever, but I want to keep it as close to the price of buying a regular ticket as possible. I doubt I'll be changing the price for BitLotto Jr because the prize pots are generally quite small so if I increase the processing fee it becomes pointless for the player. Plus its fun for me just as much as the other players... I never envisaged this as hugely profitable for myself.
To your second point...
Currently each single ticket is counted as such. So lets say person A has 3 tickets in the syndicate and person B has 7. If the lottery winnings is 10 bitcoins then person A recieves 3 and person B recieves 7... obviously because one ticket is worth 1 bitcoin.
For the big lottery I might consider running a side syndicate for a single ticket orders to accomodate those that can only afford one ticket... so each player can only buy one ticket thus giving a higher share of the prize for those who cannot afford many tickets. That might be somewhat difficult to 'police' though... So we'd basically have a Single ticket syndicate and a Multi ticket syndicate. Obviously the multi one would generally have a higher chance of winning but would result in a smaller ticket value. Single ticket syndicates would result in a smaller chance of winning but a higher share of the prize.
Thank you for the advice and suggestions. As I have said many times this is a work in progress and I love user feedback.
I expect I'll be using the seperate wallet idea in the next draw... in fact I've already set it up on my end. I'll have a look into automation of ticket purchasing although it's not really been that bad to do it manually so far... I guess I'll see how many players we can get. Of course if I end up having to process 100+ tickets, the manual way might become a problem.
Hope to see you joining the syndicate soon
I do like the idea, however you should make clear if and how much of a cut you take for running the syndicate. Currently you say + 0.01 per order, is that all you take? (Would leave you with the difference of cost of purchasing ticket transaction fees of 0.005 x tickets sold, not a lot of "profit" for you).
In addition for "bigger" lotteries you should consider shares in single tickets. This would enable low rollers to take part in the big jackpots.
Wish you good luck with the syndicate. Actually I might purchase a few tickets trough it soon. Long term you might want to automate the ticket purchasing to reduce effort required by you. Also using a specific wallet / hash to purchase tickets from is a great idea by bitlotto.
In addition for "bigger" lotteries you should consider shares in single tickets. This would enable low rollers to take part in the big jackpots.
Wish you good luck with the syndicate. Actually I might purchase a few tickets trough it soon. Long term you might want to automate the ticket purchasing to reduce effort required by you. Also using a specific wallet / hash to purchase tickets from is a great idea by bitlotto.
Great!
I want more people to invest, so I will match the number of tickets the next guy buys, as long as they buy in the next 24 hours.
I want more people to invest, so I will match the number of tickets the next guy buys, as long as they buy in the next 24 hours.
Alright Noviz, I see you've matched me.
Forgive me, but I'll have to one-up you. I've just doubled your match. Just bought six more tickets.
Forgive me, but I'll have to one-up you. I've just doubled your match. Just bought six more tickets.
lol awesome
I've processed the new 6 tickets already.
Now if my maths are correct...
We now have a 12/32 chance of winning... which is around a 1/2.66 chance.
Sorry again about the cock up with the wallets. This is the first go so I expected a few teething issues. I'll be using stand alone wallets for the next draw.
Alright Noviz, I see you've matched me.
Forgive me, but I'll have to one-up you. I've just doubled your match. Just bought six more tickets.
Forgive me, but I'll have to one-up you. I've just doubled your match. Just bought six more tickets.
Just bought the first lot of tickets (6 in total).
Annoyingly what I have now realised is that I should have used a special wallet as the coins have come from a few different addresses.
I'll get this sorted for next time as it will be easy for the syndicate players to track the payments... I'm very sorry for the inconvinience although I did expect some minor hiccups in the first run.
Just to show the power of a syndicate...
Currently there have been 26 tickets sold for the BitLotto Jr draw.
So if you bought one ticket you would have 1/26 chance of winning.
As a group we have 6 tickets... so 6/26
So our chances of winning have increased to around the region of 1/4.33!
Annoyingly what I have now realised is that I should have used a special wallet as the coins have come from a few different addresses.
I'll get this sorted for next time as it will be easy for the syndicate players to track the payments... I'm very sorry for the inconvinience although I did expect some minor hiccups in the first run.
Just to show the power of a syndicate...
Currently there have been 26 tickets sold for the BitLotto Jr draw.
So if you bought one ticket you would have 1/26 chance of winning.
As a group we have 6 tickets... so 6/26
So our chances of winning have increased to around the region of 1/4.33!
Ha I matched Cory's payment thinking that was for two tickets but instead it was three. Oh well!
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