★★ ▀▄▀▄▀ BITBAR on BTER now LIVE ▀▄▀▄▀ ★★ - page 9.

zdarkazn

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: mill0601 on May 08, 2013, 10:35:02 AM

we need an exchange with volume bter seems to do more damage then good

Thats what I feel. Some people holding them are panic sellers lol. With only about 3k in circulation, why be a panic seller? I dont get it. Is 0.7 Bitcoins really that much to those people?

mill0601

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1000

we need an exchange with volume bter seems to do more damage then good

psybits

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1000

If anyone wants to cash out some BTB I'm buying at 0.7 BTC per BTB which is higher than the BTER bid price Wink

PM me.

twelph

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: kokojie on May 08, 2013, 09:16:39 AM

Quote from: rafsoaken on May 08, 2013, 09:02:33 AM

Quote from: lukemarshall on May 08, 2013, 08:46:02 AM

Quote from: rafsoaken on May 08, 2013, 08:20:44 AM

The only value in cryptocoins lies in
1) Stability in price (good for merchants and users alike)
2) Security of the network
(besides obviously ease of use, anonymity, etc.).
The price doesnt really matter if you are interested in building a working economy out of it, that is just a side effect of its usage adoption.

Now with BitBar the issue is
1) as tiny alt coin there is no stability at all,
2) as tiny alt coin the network isnt very secure either
besides other problems like denominations are too big (pple are already want to switch to mBTC or uBTC), bitbar deliberately fools you into thinking just because its rare it must be valuable - Instead it is just the opposite with cryptocoins,
if they are not rare and are traded all over the place they have value.
my 2 satoshis.

I can see what you are saying, but what about all the people who tend to hoard coins as a store of value?

Edit: redundant

I think hoarding is not storing value but speculating that the currency appreciates in value through increased adoption, ie higher volume of market transactions.
IMO nobody just wants to "store" fiat in volatile commodities/currencies, if it isn't speculation in part at least.

Also if banks want to transact money via cryptocurrencies, it makes no sense to use BitBar if they already use Bitcoin (type a number and hit send in both cases). Also 100k dollar bills make sense if you would otherwise end up with piles of paper money, but sending 10kBTC or 100k BTC makes no difference really.

oh but it would make sense, you are aware that Bitcoin chain grows by 6GB+ every year, at current transaction rate? You think banks/big players like to deal with all that bloated blockchain shit with tons of dust/spam and possibly tainted coins? Compared to Bitcoin, BTB blockchain is tiny and will always be tiny because it's PPC based, with dust/spam protection. Also the large denomination discourage using it as transactional currency, so it is the perfect reserve crypto for banks/big players.

What would be cool to see, are these "banks" keeping reserves of bitbars in cold storage

. Gold bars in a vault.

kokojie

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1003

Quote from: rafsoaken on May 08, 2013, 09:02:33 AM

Quote from: lukemarshall on May 08, 2013, 08:46:02 AM

Quote from: rafsoaken on May 08, 2013, 08:20:44 AM

The only value in cryptocoins lies in
1) Stability in price (good for merchants and users alike)
2) Security of the network
(besides obviously ease of use, anonymity, etc.).
The price doesnt really matter if you are interested in building a working economy out of it, that is just a side effect of its usage adoption.

Now with BitBar the issue is
1) as tiny alt coin there is no stability at all,
2) as tiny alt coin the network isnt very secure either
besides other problems like denominations are too big (pple are already want to switch to mBTC or uBTC), bitbar deliberately fools you into thinking just because its rare it must be valuable - Instead it is just the opposite with cryptocoins,
if they are not rare and are traded all over the place they have value.
my 2 satoshis.

I can see what you are saying, but what about all the people who tend to hoard coins as a store of value?

Edit: redundant

I think hoarding is not storing value but speculating that the currency appreciates in value through increased adoption, ie higher volume of market transactions.
IMO nobody just wants to "store" fiat in volatile commodities/currencies, if it isn't speculation in part at least.

Also if banks want to transact money via cryptocurrencies, it makes no sense to use BitBar if they already use Bitcoin (type a number and hit send in both cases). Also 100k dollar bills make sense if you would otherwise end up with piles of paper money, but sending 10kBTC or 100k BTC makes no difference really.

oh but it would make sense, you are aware that Bitcoin chain grows by 6GB+ every year, at current transaction rate? You think banks/big players like to deal with all that bloated blockchain shit with tons of dust/spam and possibly tainted coins? Compared to Bitcoin, BTB blockchain is tiny and will always be tiny because it's PPC based, with dust/spam protection. Also the large denomination discourage using it as transactional currency, so it is the perfect reserve crypto for banks/big players.

rafsoaken

full member

Activity: 166

Merit: 100

Quote from: lukemarshall on May 08, 2013, 08:46:02 AM

Quote from: rafsoaken on May 08, 2013, 08:20:44 AM

The only value in cryptocoins lies in
1) Stability in price (good for merchants and users alike)
2) Security of the network
(besides obviously ease of use, anonymity, etc.).
The price doesnt really matter if you are interested in building a working economy out of it, that is just a side effect of its usage adoption.

Now with BitBar the issue is
1) as tiny alt coin there is no stability at all,
2) as tiny alt coin the network isnt very secure either
besides other problems like denominations are too big (pple are already want to switch to mBTC or uBTC), bitbar deliberately fools you into thinking just because its rare it must be valuable - Instead it is just the opposite with cryptocoins,
if they are not rare and are traded all over the place they have value.
my 2 satoshis.

I can see what you are saying, but what about all the people who tend to hoard coins as a store of value?

Edit: redundant

I think hoarding is not storing value but speculating that the currency appreciates in value through increased adoption, ie higher volume of market transactions.
IMO nobody just wants to "store" fiat in volatile commodities/currencies, if it isn't speculation in part at least.

Also if banks want to transact money via cryptocurrencies, it makes no sense to use BitBar if they already use Bitcoin (type a number and hit send in both cases). Also 100k dollar bills make sense if you would otherwise end up with piles of paper money, but sending 10kBTC or 100k BTC makes no difference really.

Caesar V

sr. member

Activity: 369

Merit: 250

Quote from: lukemarshall on May 08, 2013, 08:08:58 AM

Quote from: Caesar V on May 08, 2013, 07:59:52 AM

I'm not bashing this coin (I don't have any so maybe I'm a bit jelly..)

but I seriously cannot imagine any coin being higher than BTC, that's just my opinion.

Will be very interesting to see where this goes.

Go get you some Bro...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/giveawayfree-bitbar-0005-btb-per-person-194324

haha, nice!

lukemarshall

full member

Activity: 183

Merit: 100

Quote from: rafsoaken on May 08, 2013, 08:20:44 AM

The only value in cryptocoins lies in
1) Stability in price (good for merchants and users alike)
2) Security of the network
(besides obviously ease of use, anonymity, etc.).
The price doesnt really matter if you are interested in building a working economy out of it, that is just a side effect of its usage adoption.

Now with BitBar the issue is
1) as tiny alt coin there is no stability at all,
2) as tiny alt coin the network isnt very secure either
besides other problems like denominations are too big (pple are already want to switch to mBTC or uBTC), bitbar deliberately fools you into thinking just because its rare it must be valuable - Instead it is just the opposite with cryptocoins,
if they are not rare and are traded all over the place they have value.
my 2 satoshis.

I can see what you are saying, but what about all the people who tend to hoard coins as a store of value?

Edit: redundant

GSnak

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

BTer run out of room at the top for all the coins?

zdarkazn

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: kokojie on May 08, 2013, 08:37:26 AM

Quote from: rafsoaken on May 08, 2013, 08:20:44 AM

The only value in cryptocoins lies in
1) Stability in price (good for merchants and users alike)
2) Security of the network
(besides obviously ease of use, anonymity, etc.).
The price doesnt really matter if you are interested in building a working economy out of it, that is just a side effect of its usage adoption.

Now with BitBar the issue is
1) as tiny alt coin there is no stability at all,
2) as tiny alt coin the network isnt very secure either
besides other problems like denominations are too big (pple are already want to switch to mBTC or uBTC), bitbar deliberately fools you into thinking just because its rare it must be valuable - Instead it is just the opposite with cryptocoins,
if they are not rare and are traded all over the place they have value.
my 2 satoshis.

LTC's network hash rate was on average 0.5Gh/s three months ago, lower than the current BTB network hash rate, and it has been there for a year. Yet no one has successfully attacked LTC, so I dare you try and attack BTB network if you think it isn't very secure.

Price stability has been surprisingly good, hovering around 0.5btc-1btc ever since inception, even on the exchange it's still trading in that range. I'd say the price stability is solid against FTC or CNC.

Denomination is only too big if you use it as a transactional currency, which it is not, it is designed as a reserve currency, for example US banks transact inter-bank physical bill business using $100,000 bills, not circulated in public's hands.

ooo $100k bills. I want one.. Grin

I have a 5k bill

kokojie

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1003

Quote from: rafsoaken on May 08, 2013, 08:20:44 AM

The only value in cryptocoins lies in
1) Stability in price (good for merchants and users alike)
2) Security of the network
(besides obviously ease of use, anonymity, etc.).
The price doesnt really matter if you are interested in building a working economy out of it, that is just a side effect of its usage adoption.

Now with BitBar the issue is
1) as tiny alt coin there is no stability at all,
2) as tiny alt coin the network isnt very secure either
besides other problems like denominations are too big (pple are already want to switch to mBTC or uBTC), bitbar deliberately fools you into thinking just because its rare it must be valuable - Instead it is just the opposite with cryptocoins,
if they are not rare and are traded all over the place they have value.
my 2 satoshis.

LTC's network hash rate was on average 0.5Gh/s three months ago, lower than the current BTB network hash rate, and it has been there for a year. Yet no one has successfully attacked LTC, so I dare you try and attack BTB network if you think it isn't very secure, PPC based coins have extra protection against 51% attack thru the use of check points and PoS block generation. It's nearly impossible to 51% attack a PPC based coin.

Price stability has been surprisingly good, hovering around 0.5btc-1btc ever since inception, even on the exchange it's still trading in that range. I'd say the price stability is solid against FTC or CNC.

Denomination is only too big if you use it as a transactional currency, which it is not, it is designed as a reserve currency, for example US banks transact inter-bank physical bill business using $100,000 bills, not circulated in public's hands.

sterob

full member

Activity: 175

Merit: 100

★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice

Quote from: Caesar V on May 08, 2013, 07:59:52 AM

I'm not bashing this coin (I don't have any so maybe I'm a bit jelly..)

but I seriously cannot imagine any coin being higher than BTC, that's just my opinion.

Will be very interesting to see where this goes.

For example if 1 block feathercoin reward 0.0001 instead of 200 then yes 1 feathercoin will > 1 bitcoin

zdarkazn

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: RustyShackleford1950 on May 08, 2013, 08:09:42 AM

Quote from: Caesar V on May 08, 2013, 07:59:52 AM

I'm not bashing this coin (I don't have any so maybe I'm a bit jelly..)

but I seriously cannot imagine any coin being higher than BTC, that's just my opinion.

Will be very interesting to see where this goes.

You raise a good point, is a psychological thing. But to give an example:

   Say there are 5 bitcoins in existence, 10 litecoins, 50 feathercoins, and 100 namecoins.
   If the current real world economics are applied, and let's say bitcoin is valued at $100, then due to the availability of the other coins, litecoins are worth $50, feathercoins $10, and namecoins $5.
   That's how pricing currently works.
   Now if a new alt comes around; bitbar, and there's only 1 bitbar in existence, if we follow the pricing model, that bitbar is worth $500 dollars.

"But another alt can't be worth more than bitcoin?"
Of course it can, it's all about the economics of the coin, it's availability, circulation, supply, and future potential.

Personally, I think that bitbar has a future, it's an alt that's (so far) not been pumped, not been spruiked by shills, and has not been overhyped. It's just steadily chugged along in the background. That's what you want from an alt, steady, consistent growth with a long term future in mind.

Good explanation, however, it will take time, which no one knows how long. This is the reason why LTC is not 1/4 of BTC yet.

rafsoaken

full member

Activity: 166

Merit: 100

The only value in cryptocoins lies in
1) Stability in price (good for merchants and users alike)
2) Security of the network
(besides obviously ease of use, anonymity, etc.).
The price doesnt really matter if you are interested in building a working economy out of it, that is just a side effect of its usage adoption.

Now with BitBar the issue is
1) as tiny alt coin there is no stability at all,
2) as tiny alt coin the network isnt very secure either
besides other problems like denominations are too big (pple are already want to switch to mBTC or uBTC), bitbar deliberately fools you into thinking just because its rare it must be valuable - Instead it is just the opposite with cryptocoins,
if they are not rare and are traded all over the place they have value.
my 2 satoshis.

RustyShackleford1950

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 251

Quote from: Caesar V on May 08, 2013, 07:59:52 AM

I'm not bashing this coin (I don't have any so maybe I'm a bit jelly..)

but I seriously cannot imagine any coin being higher than BTC, that's just my opinion.

Will be very interesting to see where this goes.

You raise a good point, is a psychological thing. But to give an example:

   Say there are 5 bitcoins in existence, 10 litecoins, 50 feathercoins, and 100 namecoins.
   If the current real world economics are applied, and let's say bitcoin is valued at $100, then due to the availability of the other coins, litecoins are worth $50, feathercoins $10, and namecoins $5.
   That's how pricing currently works.
   Now if a new alt comes around; bitbar, and there's only 1 bitbar in existence, if we follow the pricing model, that bitbar is worth $500 dollars.

"But another alt can't be worth more than bitcoin?"
Of course it can, it's all about the economics of the coin, it's availability, circulation, supply, and future potential.

Personally, I think that bitbar has a future, it's an alt that's (so far) not been pumped, not been spruiked by shills, and has not been overhyped. It's just steadily chugged along in the background. That's what you want from an alt, steady, consistent growth with a long term future in mind.

lukemarshall

full member

Activity: 183

Merit: 100

Quote from: Caesar V on May 08, 2013, 07:59:52 AM

I'm not bashing this coin (I don't have any so maybe I'm a bit jelly..)

but I seriously cannot imagine any coin being higher than BTC, that's just my opinion.

Will be very interesting to see where this goes.

Go get you some Bro...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/giveawayfree-bitbar-0005-btb-per-person-194324

skyangel

sr. member

Activity: 301

Merit: 260

FLO dev

Quote from: Caesar V on May 08, 2013, 07:59:52 AM

I'm not bashing this coin (I don't have any so maybe I'm a bit jelly..)

but I seriously cannot imagine any coin being higher than BTC, that's just my opinion.

Will be very interesting to see where this goes.

It's all relative. There are 11 million BTC and only about 3000 BTB.

ImI

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1019

even bitcoin is for biggest parts pure speculation. coffee and drugs thats what its about at the moment.

Caesar V

sr. member

Activity: 369

Merit: 250

I'm not bashing this coin (I don't have any so maybe I'm a bit jelly..)

but I seriously cannot imagine any coin being higher than BTC, that's just my opinion.

Will be very interesting to see where this goes.

zdarkazn

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: RustyShackleford1950 on May 08, 2013, 07:39:36 AM

With regard to the pricing, here is a previous post of mine estimating what the fair value is:

Litecoin:
Network Hash: 16,759,472 kH/s
Total Supply: 17,392,400 LTC
Current value: 3.14 USD/LTC

Bitbar:
Network Hash: 700,000 kH/s
Total Supply: 2,800 BTB
Theoretical value: 815 LTC/BTB.

Which seems insanely high (24BTC/BTB). And it is, it doesn't take into consideration adoption, reputation, age, etc.

So compare it to one of the lamer coins of recent times, feathercoin;

Feathercoin:
Network Hash: 1,133,753 kH/s
Total Supply: 6,505,600 FTC
Current value: 0.22018 USD/FTC

Bitbar:
Network Hash: 700,000 kH/s
Total Supply: 2,800 BTB
Theoretical value: 315.8 FTC/BTB.

Which would value bitbar at about $70 USD/BTB (0.65 BTC), which seems very low (probably due to the problems feathercoin currently has).

So there's a rough high and low point for the exchange to base the price from.

My personal feeling is that around 10 BTC/BTB is a fair price IN THE LONG TERM. Short term price, anywhere between 1.5BTC/BTB - 2.0 BTC/BTB.

o.o

Topic: ★★ ▀▄▀▄▀ BITBAR on BTER now LIVE ▀▄▀▄▀ ★★ - page 9. (Read 8996 times)