Topic: BitBay |Decentralized Marketplace|Smart Contracts|IoT Tech|Markets Open - page 145. (Read 339472 times)

You are quite correct... it's possible to have no deposit, or 10X deposit for that matter - or once timelocks are implemented to have payments occur on a pre-defined schedule.  So for example, if you are an unknown seller with an unknown reputation - it's quite possible that you would have to do a full double-deposit escrow contract to attract buyers given your lack of reputation... in time you wouldn't need that.  

With smart contracts it should be possible to also have a 'normal' escrow account as well (provided said party was trusted by both individuals) with a multisig account defined.  If either party fails to accept, but the pre-determined arbiter does accept both sides... then the contract is fulfilled and the deposits returned.  As far as payment for services, etc. it would be easy to simply set up something where until cancelled by either party a specific amount is paid out per week... up to the maximum.  If escrow is not involved and payment is one-way, then the remaining funds would be returned (at least as I understand the Halo whitepapers... I admit that I haven't actually attempted to code such a contract myself).

As with everything, it's just meaningless conjecture on all sides until we have the tools in our hands and can start trying out different options and providing feedback to David and the rest of the team as far as options/improvements that are necessary for our various prospective uses.  It's quite easy to imagine that the purposes for which I am excited about using this marketplace are different from someone else's... it's also possible that once we've gotten more familiar with the interface and options - we'll have even more ideas for application which are currently unimaginable.

On the contrary, you are wrong...

For example as an employer on a freelancing marketplace, I don't give a shit about your skills as a freelancer with no good feedback. I'm looking for somebody who is TRUSTING his skill and is dedicated to finish the work in time and deliver as advertised.

For example as a seller, I won't sell you shit if you don't have a proper feedback and you are willing to pay trough paypal. I won't take that chargeback chance.

For example as a buyer, I will pay an escrow fee just be sure that your cell phone is working as advertised. That won't be a problem.


You are WRONG. You are looking from a "scammer" perspective. "Is he willing to do that? Ofc not if he's not a honest person"
I get it, there are sellers and buyer who can't afford escrow service. So what? Does that make the service "good for nothing"? That's plain STUPID!!!!


Stop looking from that perspective, and be creative. On top of that, stop thinking short time. "Look, the volatility...." Gosh...

That's a polish exchange named BitBay lol

Seller & Buyer will be able to set their own escrow amount. Double deposit was just an example ( I think) lol. I hope it's not mandatory because that can come bite your ass when marketplace launches. I'm really not sure how it would benefit small time sellers/buyers.

On the contrary, you are wrong...

For example as an employer on a freelancing marketplace, I don't give a shit about your skills as a freelancer with no good feedback. I'm looking for somebody who is TRUSTING his skill and is dedicated to finish the work in time and deliver as advertised.

For example as a seller, I won't sell you shit if you don't have a proper feedback and you are willing to pay trough paypal. I won't take that chargeback chance.

For example as a buyer, I will pay an escrow fee just be sure that your cell phone is working as advertised. That won't be a problem.


You are WRONG. You are looking from a "scammer" perspective. "Is he willing to do that? Ofc not if he's not a honest person"
I get it, there are sellers and buyer who can't afford escrow service. So what? Does that make the service "good for nothing"? That's plain STUPID!!!!


Stop looking from that perspective, and be creative. On top of that, stop thinking short time. "Look, the volatility...." Gosh...

what is that?

Be realistic, let's take the example of Alibaba, it is a system that allow Vendors to minimize their investment in sales structure, maximize their visibility and cut through intermediaries in exchange of Alibaba fees.

I doubt a lot of Vendors of Alibaba would switch to a system that require provision of everything sold at the level of sales, meaning a Vendor has to escrow also his benefices and his shipping costs and he is not guaranteed fully to get money in the end.

In case of a problem with the buyer, which is not able to free the escrow for some reasons, technical, personal or any reason possible the Vendor lost everything...Transactions are also about security and reliability of payment, I am not sure we can call an escrow something that implies a risk of loosing the money if something happen to the buyer.

Anyway, you have to think of BitBay as competing with other sales channels, try to have a business owner point of view, escrow and immobilizing funds, bear the risk of lost funds while the product is shipped.

I don't see it very attractive compared to the other sales channel for Vendors.

And for buyers either...You have to own 2 times the value of what you buy ?

Come on, people are supposed to buy BitBay coins to use the system, think about that, you think it will be fine for average people to invest 2 times the value they want to buy BitBays from fiat ?

You try to explain that BitBay is a system only made for people that have already a lot of money to guarantee the reliability and that prefer to use BitBay because they like cryptocurrencies...
Okay then but so we can't hope BitBay will go mainstream and will be widely used, and that price of coin will grow and be pegged to Dollar, because i think all these aspects are depending of the large adoption and wide use of BitBay, for me it is like shooting yourself in the foot...

Seller & Buyer will be able to set their own escrow amount. Double deposit was just an example ( I think) lol. I hope it's not mandatory because that can come bite your ass when marketplace launches. I'm really not sure how it would benefit small time sellers/buyers.

Freelancer: Would the guy who is looking for job really deposit money before applying for job? No, I don't think so.

Buyer: Would they deposit $2000 for something that costs $1000 just so they can avoid $5 fees from Paypal? Nope

Seller: Would seller deposit more money than what is needed in order to avoid fees? Nope

Lawyer: Would he deposit money before client hires him? Nope

On other hand this market can be very useful for things such as real estate deals & bank deals It can be beneficial for things such as an IBM working on a project for a client and client don't like the idea. They both deposit money in escrow and IBM starts working on that project. After a month they reassess to see if new project brought profit to client company. Once client sees the benefit money will be taken out from the escrow and it'll be released to IBM.

Big companies, Big buyers, Big sellers. They would love this "double deposit" and I don't think it's really meant for day to day user who is living in poverty time.

Just my few cents.

@qawzsx : Why I'm here ? Probably because i own some BitBays, followed the project because i found the concept interesting, now I'm kind of genuinely concerned about the business model of the Decentralized MarketPlace and how the Escrow System works because it will be the backbone of the system.

Personnaly i think the adoption and wide use of the coin is essential to its developement.

And we haven't even talked about volatility of BitBay and this problem combined with the escrow time regarding Vendor and Buyer...

@qawzsx : Why I'm here ? Probably because i own some BitBays, followed the project because i found the concept interesting, now I'm kind of genuinely concerned about the business model of the Decentralized MarketPlace and how the Escrow System works because it will be the backbone of the system.

Personnaly i think the adoption and wide use of the coin is essential to its developement.

And we haven't even talked about volatility of BitBay and this problem combined with the escrow time regarding Vendor and Buyer...

Be realistic, let's take the example of Alibaba, it is a system that allow Vendors to minimize their investment in sales structure, maximize their visibility and cut through intermediaries in exchange of Alibaba fees.

I doubt a lot of Vendors of Alibaba would switch to a system that require provision of everything sold at the level of sales, meaning a Vendor has to escrow also his benefices and his shipping costs and he is not guaranteed fully to get money in the end.

In case of a problem with the buyer, which is not able to free the escrow for some reasons, technical, personal or any reason possible the Vendor lost everything...Transactions are also about security and reliability of payment, I am not sure we can call an escrow something that implies a risk of loosing the money if something happen to the buyer.

Anyway, you have to think of BitBay as competing with other sales channels, try to have a business owner point of view, escrow and immobilizing funds, bear the risk of lost funds while the product is shipped.

I don't see it very attractive compared to the other sales channel for Vendors.

And for buyers either...You have to own 2 times the value of what you buy ?

Come on, people are supposed to buy BitBay coins to use the system, think about that, you think it will be fine for average people to invest 2 times the value they want to buy BitBays from fiat ?

You try to explain that BitBay is a system only made for people that have already a lot of money to guarantee the reliability and that prefer to use BitBay because they like cryptocurrencies...
Okay then but so we can't hope BitBay will go mainstream and will be widely used, and that price of coin will grow and be pegged to Dollar, because i think all these aspects are depending of the large adoption and wide use of BitBay, for me it is like shooting yourself in the foot...

Well .. im too sceptical about the future .. im selling part of my coins just in case

for me it is like shooting yourself in the foot...

Let's just say his point is "not well thought out"... it's not stupid, as he appears to be working through issues he sees in it... which is part of the process regardless.

As for the second point... I know I am (excited that is).  I agree that direct sales may not always be profitable to handle via DD escrow contracts... but that's fine.  If I can deal with international vendors and manufacturers for goods which are difficult/impossible to purchase in quantity without going through large, prohibitive distributor agreements, even if I then wind up having to sell them online through other/traditional means... at least I didn't have to prove $1M+ in annual sales before being allowed to play in their pool.  (And that amount is pretty common among the larger distributor networks).

Who knows if that will actually become a reality... but with this it seems to be a remote possibility... which is better than what we have today IMO.

There is no marketplace who can target all types of sellers/buyers out there...
Yes, there will be buyers/sellers who can't afford it. Where is the problem? There are people on this earth who can't afford clean water. Does it make clean water useless?
Your point is plain stupid.

You are thinking from a scammer perspective. Legit traders will love to have a decentralized escrow system on top of a ranked system. There are tons of traders who make their living from this "business", buying/selling stuff on the internet.

I can tell you what will happen simply, Vendors will end by overcharging price of items to take in account the escrow they have to keep immobilized or they will bypass the escrow by asking the buyer to FE (Finalize Early) his transaction before the item is shipped, meaning the system will become quite useless because it is too expensive to bear for a lot of Buyers and Vendors

On a business model, for a Vendor that ship items that are received in about 2 weeks let's say, bear the escrow and the guarantee fund is enormous for 2 weeks...it is not really business friendly...only a Vendor starting with a large amount of cash for escrow will be able to do business constantly...And let's not speak about the issue to grow your business, the situation is even worse regarding the requirements for growing the business.

In the end i think the system will destroy itself in its current state because the only options for Vendors will be to price items expensive or to bypass the escrow, and yet it is not very confortable for them.

As another user said there is also the problem of scalability, for little items it is fine to make an escrow of a few dollars, but not all the buyers will have 2 times the money of what they are buying when we speaks of thousands $, for a company it will be also a hell for accounting, i don't see small companies having enough money to adopt the system either...

My point is that it will be hard to put the system mainstream in these conditions for sure.

As i suppose the moderation or arbitration of transaction is not an option seeing the FAQ, there are perhaps others way to explore, community votes or supervision in case of dispute on a transaction, possibility of modification or configuration of the escrow to free only a part of it as it is done in business when you pay an advance on an order and pay the rest after, to be able to negotiate between parties if needed.

So for me the current system is friendly to absolutely no one, Buyers will have to have 2 times the money needed to buy, filtering minimum 90 % of Buyers probably, Vendors will need an enormous amount of money to just keep the business running or to hope to be able to grow it a little...