Topic: BitBay OFFICIAL BITBAY Thread Smart Contracts Decentralized Markets Rolling Peg - page 182. (Read 542140 times)

I should specify that in the BitBay Lite, in order to initiate the contract, the buyer would have to pay immediately.  Otherwise, they would be able to initiate and void contracts for low costs that would cost the seller large amounts of money.
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No I don't think you are understanding how these contracts work. They are unbreakable. Double deposit is simultaneous deposits by both sides and the payment for goods and services is advanced as well. So there is no way for either side to void a contract. Everything requires mutual consent or both parties lose funds
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I understand how the contracts currently work, but I've been trying to market this platform to various communities that I know would use this platform.  The response has been that the current exact details of these contracts are not favorable in terms of people wanting to use BitBay.  The first users of this platform are 100% going to be people using BitBay as a safe alternative to Bitcoin.  There is somebody paying money, and somebody sending a good.  If I understand the current system, it requires buyers to front DOUBLE the price of the item.  If the seller doesn't come through, the buyer will lose twice as much money as the seller.  

-Both parties front the price of the item as the reserve:  Buyer Net Cost - $50 ......... Seller's Net Cost - $50.

-Next, the buyer sends the seller the cost of the good:   Buyer Net Cost - $100 ........ Seller's Net Cost - $0.

-Seller does not send the good, and the buyer
does not consent to the transaction,
losing the reserve:                                                      Buyer Net Cost - $100 ........ Seller's Net Cost - $0.



I was suggesting an alternative contract system that would exist in addition to the current contract system.  In the additional option, you would have the buyer's reserve set at .5x the price + the advance of the cost of the good/service, and the seller's reserve set at 1.5x the price.  


-Both parties front the price of the item as the reserve:  Buyer Net Cost - $25 ......... Seller's Net Cost - $75.

-Next, the buyer sends the seller the cost of the good:   Buyer Net Cost - $75 ......... Seller's Net Cost - $25.

-Seller does not send the good, and the buyer
does not consent to the transaction,
losing the reserve:                                                      Buyer Net Cost - $75 ........ Seller's Net Cost - $25.

A net loss of 50% seems like a reasonable deterrent for each side to not break the contract.  Expecting the seller to risk 2x or more the cost of the item with no risk from the seller is not reasonable in the markets you need to be targeting.  Instead of a one size fits all contract formula , which doesn't work in this market, there would be customized options depending on the context.

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On top of that, the beta client still isn't working for me.  I was able to download it, and it took me to the "which language" page once, but then windows firewall started asking for permissions, and the program crashed.  Now it won't open.
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If it crashed it may be due to antivirus maybe? I submitted a ticket with avast and they approved it already, download the newest version. I think AVG was also frustrating. The newer build might not trigger it because it doesn't elevate to admin within the script.

Also, if it won't open check task manager, perhaps bitmhalo or bitbayd is running in the background... just force close it. If you want you can come on slack and i will walk you through it.

You can negotiate those lower deposits. In every template you can set custom deposits. Its really up to the merchant and buyer. But the thing is new buyers having to put up the deposit equal to item value is pretty fair in my opinion. There is also guarantor contracts that make only one side deposit. It depends on a users reputation and KYC and level of trust really.

A lite client wouldn't be easy to make. If you were a coder you would realize how tremendous amount of work UI/UX is especially for a single coder. A new skin isn't the only thing to consider it would in many cases require a refactor. It would be scope creep and distract me from the main roadmap.

If i had millions then sure, a mobile wallet would be nice too or a "lite" mobile version of the client.

Every contract is different, some are barter others are DDE... it depends on the deal.

The 'BitBay Lite' can be the exact same client software, but with a different skin, so it's super easy to make from what currently exists.  If you're looking for something to add, add on something that would make it easier for sellers to use, like a way to organize orders, shipping addresses, and the order status.  We already have a reason for buyers to want to use it, so now we need to make sellers really WANT to use it.
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I should specify that in the BitBay Lite, in order to initiate the contract, the buyer would have to pay immediately.  Otherwise, they would be able to initiate and void contracts for low costs that would cost the seller large amounts of money.
[/quote]

No I don't think you are understanding how these contracts work. They are unbreakable. Double deposit is simultaneous deposits by both sides and the payment for goods and services is advanced as well. So there is no way for either side to void a contract. Everything requires mutual consent or both parties lose funds
[/quote]


I understand how the contracts currently work, but I've been trying to market this platform to various communities that I know would use this platform.  The response has been that the current exact details of these contracts are not favorable in terms of people wanting to use BitBay.  The first users of this platform are 100% going to be people using BitBay as a safe alternative to Bitcoin.  There is somebody paying money, and somebody sending a good.  If I understand the current system, it requires buyers to front DOUBLE the price of the item.  If the seller doesn't come through, the buyer will lose twice as much money as the seller. 

-Both parties front the price of the item as the reserve:  Buyer Net Cost - $50 ......... Seller's Net Cost - $50.

-Next, the buyer sends the seller the cost of the good:   Buyer Net Cost - $100 ........ Seller's Net Cost - $0.

-Seller does not send the good, and the buyer
does not consent to the transaction,
losing the reserve:                                                      Buyer Net Cost - $100 ........ Seller's Net Cost - $0.



I was suggesting an alternative contract system that would exist in addition to the current contract system.  In the additional option, you would have the buyer's reserve set at .5x the price + the advance of the cost of the good/service, and the seller's reserve set at 1.5x the price. 


-Both parties front the price of the item as the reserve:  Buyer Net Cost - $25 ......... Seller's Net Cost - $75.

-Next, the buyer sends the seller the cost of the good:   Buyer Net Cost - $75 ......... Seller's Net Cost - $25.

-Seller does not send the good, and the buyer
does not consent to the transaction,
losing the reserve:                                                      Buyer Net Cost - $75 ........ Seller's Net Cost - $25.

A net loss of 50% seems like a reasonable deterrent for each side to not break the contract.  Expecting the seller to risk 2x or more the cost of the item with no risk from the seller is not reasonable in the markets you need to be targeting.  Instead of a one size fits all contract formula , which doesn't work in this market, there would be customized options depending on the context.

-------------------------------

On top of that, the beta client still isn't working for me.  I was able to download it, and it took me to the "which language" page once, but then windows firewall started asking for permissions, and the program crashed.  Now it won't open.

Very true and, the tech works as advertised, period. Just that makes this a better investment than 90% of the other stuff out there.

Yeah the only way I would leave this project is if die. hahaha.

As a few core people know and I suppose this may as well be public knowledge, I turned down a job with 21 and other places which would have probably been easily 6 figure jobs to honor my word here.

We will go ahead and update the OP bentach. And why call me "elusive" when I'm like answering all your questions, essentially agreeing with you and even answered you via pm? Relax.

As for the bottleneck, I understand where that investor is coming from and he's right! But as an investor I would rather invest in a bottlenecked dev who has delivered working software than invest in another "roadmap" that may (and probably will never) come to fruition.

That being said I would love to get rid of the bottleneck. Hopefully my workload clears up a bit. If it goes sky high i could probably afford to hire.

People have seen this roadmap here in Bay get honored exactly as said. Improvements in the markets and nobody has ever lost a contract.

 David is a good developer, I have been holding bay

Guys, chill.

Why would he abandon the project when he takes the time to post about it here multiple times per day?

Another note... the community should be less focused on courting whales and more about educating the crypto community about its features and applications and bringing businesses to the marketplace rather than just pushing for price inflation.  That will come organically with stability once BitBay's unique features and legitimacy are on display.

Also, David, here's one constructive comment about BitBay I received that might be helpful for you:

"I looked into BitBay & traded it for a few days. Seems like an interesting project & nice website, but the usability & complexity of the wallet is likely to prevent mass adoption. It might do well in smaller circles though, so I'm not ruling it out. Would like to see a more simplified user interface with a design that's more aesthetically pleasing . Project time frames also seem a bit bottle-necked. Developer, as talented as he may be, would be more productive if he would delegate workloads & not try to do it all himself (just my opinion obviously). Until then my focus for investments will be PIVX & ARK. I've got around the same amount of piv as you & I appreciate you highlighting the compounding interest of staking -awesome isn't it? lol :-) I love PIVX!
Also -check out Ark http://ark.io/ when you get a chance. Relatively new project released last week -needless to say I grab quite a few. Ark has staking as well & price is still cheap. Great job on the videos Crypto Baron.
-PIV long & prosper -jazen"

I personally grabbed some BitBay and I'm looking forward to its success.

Most of us here have been with BitBay from the beginning in 2014. We were the folks who bought into the ICO. We were the ones who held out through the tough years. We have absolute faith in David for many reasons but the outstanding one is this: He has never given us any reason to doubt his commitment or his skills. Go back to the old threads and read the voluminous amount of information available on the early days of BitBay. You may have a much better understanding of why we trust David and support him without reservation.

the word "sound like" don't mean it's true. yes, David Zimbeck sound like a very upstanding person from all the posts i've read, but i wondered why he's distance himself from bitbay? there is no information to connected David Zimbeck to bitbay, no proof, no evident at this point. all the information i found about David Zimbeck is related to halo/bithalo.
what are you accusing me of? scam? scam of what? i only doing this for the good of you guys, the bitbay community. are you guys into deep shit now to even lie to yourself and the people as long you could get out of this?

remember you guys going to be okay as long this sound like hard working, honest, integrity, David Zimbeck is the face of bitbay, you will thanks me later to bring him out and put a big rubber stamp on this project. until then don't expecting much, just hope this project not abandon by this elusive David Zimbeck soon.

David found the bug and has made a new build. The links in OP and on our site bitbay.market are linked to it. Version number is not changed. Sorry for the inconvinience this has been for some of you.

i will watch and follow your project and maybe contact you later this year
maybe i can help a bit with funds for coders and stuff we will see. i have to do further investigation first and close some of my own prjects (not crypto related)

i'm sure you understand that. i guess i will contact you with a pm next time

heads up and take care!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXUZRGd1hE&list=PLILfNPSQCo6yjFiwXY6-C-ikIDs6v2nHU

You can see for yourself. There is nothing even close to as cool as this IMHO.

Thanks, yeah I want to expand the team but good coders are extremely expensive and hard to train and find. I need someone who is so good they can refactor this 50,000 line monster. Preferably into a web version also.

At the current rate, I've calculated that its faster for me to do everything myself. If I somehow magically get millions of dollars then I would certainly consider taking on coders also because the investors would have a guarantee if something happens to me.

There was an ICO, I wasn't in control of the finances, a lot of lies were told to me. There was 4 founders, Steven Dai, BTER, Bobsurplus and Gekko. I was just the dev but they cut me in as a partner. I told them they had to supply me with devs to make it successful. Instead, they all vanished after the fundraiser and didn't do a single minute of work. (other than trying to bully everyone for more funds). Then they tried to trash my name.

So you know, I just took over the project with the small amounts of Bitcoin I did make and have been living off that for two years. Things are a bit tight, but i manage. I'm a very stubborn bastard and really refuse to see investors lose. I'm happy to see the price is now ABOVE the ICO. If I had left like the others, it would have been in the dust.

The rolling peg might be of particular interest to you.

And bentach, I'm going to discuss with core the best way to update the OP. You are right we should also have our news articles on there. I'm just one person. So its hard to manage all this and code.

Thanks for the answer i realy appreciate that.

do you plan to extend the team for coding? was there any premine or ico?
how do you fund yourself and/or additional coders/are there any business plans do this in future, from fees for example?

i know cryptohunter and respect him so this is already a good sign

will do some more investigation and maybe buy a bit here and there until the project/coding team grows further

my advice: don't use time and efforts to answer stupid comments and stuff. work on code, deliver like planned and they will come  

keep it on, code it baby and smash the bugs  
 
 

you dumb fucker newbie have magic eyes, i don't.
dumb fucker investor like you and caution investor like me whoever have more bitcoin is for your own self to judge.

We have hundreds of features and were years ahead of SYS.
http://bitbay.market/walloffeatures/

That wall of features is actually preliminary. Most critically the markets are peer to peer on Bitmessage and it uses double deposit escrow.

DRPD, I'm the dev. I'm originally the coder of BitHalo and now BitBay.
http://www.coindesk.com/bithalo-smart-contracts-without-block-chain-bloat/
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/this-decentralized-bitcoin-market-is-for-legal-stuff-only

My name was known outside of crypto, was in films, produced commercials in Los Angeles, worked on oil rigs, did real estate work, and am a world renowned chess puzzlemarker known for breaking records and tasks www.zimbeckchess.com

I've been in this space for 3 years and never switched projects. Was hired on BitBay and the founders left after they abused my rep. So I took over the coding since I was hired to do it anyway and have been coding for 2 years.

You don't need to invest. Just download the software there is a Faucet that will teach you to use the markets. We aren't forcing anyone to invest. I'm simply trying to finish my roadmap.

We noticed that my name wasn't on the OP. There is no team of coders and marketers. I'm the only one. The slack group with guys such as Craig, Munti, Meta, Rqdxrocket, funsponge, gitgud, cryptohunter, catnip, lowercase, gjsteele71, jbar and many others have helped with testing and promoting.

For the ones who want to be on an "official" team I'm assuming Craig, Munti and Meta(he did the website) might consider it.

But in all honesty I'm the only coder and apparently this code does more than pretty much anything else on the market.

I'm known for making the worlds first smart contracts, worlds first decentralized markets and first multisig, multicoin and joint account software 3+ years ago.

Again from my comment above bentach has brought to my attention that my name is not on the OP. I'm one of the least anonymous people in crypto and one of the easiest people to find. AMA

The comments above bentach are a joke. I'm the only person who controls Halo and committed over 50,000 lines of code. BitHalo/BlackHalo and BitBay. And also, why would you want a dev who created more than one coin? The devs who create a lot of coins are usually bastards because they are unable to commit to a project. Not saying I wouldn't do freelance work to build a coin for someone, but not manage it no. Things don't happen on your time table bentach. I realized we didn't put my name on the OP and said we can update it. I'm doing like 15 fucking things at once be patient. Unless you want to be the coder? Have fun with that one...    . Yeah I've got an idea, someone else be the coder and let me be the investor. We will see how long that will last  

To be honest we figured everyone knew, I don't think our core team even noticed it. It was my name the founders used to raise the money. Without it, this project wouldn't have existed. There was a bunch of articles on myself and on Halo and as  bentach has pointed out, those articles aren't on the OP. It's on my list of things to do. I will bring this up with the core guys on slack.

While you wait, be civil. There isn't a whale in Bitcoin who isn't aware of the fact that I'm the only coder of Halo and simply downloading the software will show you what a monster of a coding job it was for me. More than 3 years of solid work.

Are you fucking serious, a dev who came from a rat hole, dude he created bithalo and was a big part of helping the blackcoin community. Don't ever look down on a lower rank you fool especially when your damn account is painted red because you're a loser spammer. My advice for you is don't invest your lunch money in anything because you clearly have no clue.

at least a name  

but before i invest anything in bitbay i need to know the team size and more other info's
why not create something like this: https://pivx.org/pivx-team/

i don't expect real names, i like my privacy too

ask your self:
why should i invest 10'000 - 20'000 $ in bitbay if there is not even a "about us" section on homepage?
why should i invest so much money if i don't know the team size

the risk is to high if this is a one person show no matter how good he/she is. You never know about a accident, heart attack, alien abduction   or whatever.
so don't expect much money if you are not willing to give out more info.

last question so far:
can you explain (in few short words) the key difference between bitbay and sys?

please note: i don't want to start a coin vs coin war here. bitbay looks interesting and i respect any legit blockchain project!

thanks and good luck all

such stupid advice from a newbie. i investing base on solid evidence to safeguard my funds, in this crypto world you never want to invest with someone just coming out of a rat hole and claiming to be god coder and know everything. if David Zimbeck is the main dev of this coin then there no reason to hide from it, unless there is a reason behind it. my recommendations to you in this crypto world, first to never ever invest/involve with dev who just coming out of a rat hole, second never ever invest with someone who have more than one coin.

No you need to dig just a little bit then lol David Zimbeck is the main dev, as long as shit is delivered I don't see why people would need to know much else with a real life identity to put to the project that has been around since 2014.