Bitbill Patent Published - Encompasses Physical Bitcoins and Paper Wallets - page 3.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: smoothie on July 01, 2013, 10:09:57 AM

I'm trying to wrap my head around how you could patent embedding private keys into coins.

don't worry about this claim. it won't go anywhere.

BitBills is a spoiled brat who missed out on the run up precisely b/c they didn't see it coming and now wants to capitalize on everyone else's success. won't happen.

casascius

vip

Activity: 1386

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The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)

Quote from: RoadToHell on July 01, 2013, 10:00:56 AM

I quickly read through the Claims section (which is the meat of any patent), but won't have time to look at the rest of the application until this evening. Claims 24, 30 and 31 look like they might contain new material. I think that all of the others can be countered with prior art. It will be interesting to see if the application detail backs up those claims with any substance.

I would think these three claims are nothing more than the same thing described in this post dated Aug 30, 2010 and its followups.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: CIYAM on July 01, 2013, 09:40:56 AM

Quote from: cbeast on July 01, 2013, 09:39:25 AM

What kind of legal exposure would a patent holder have for Bitbills that are used for illegal activities?

Haha - great idea - forward on the patent application to the NSA (although probably not necessary as they would already know about it) and to FinCEN and let them reap the benefits!

This will take the cross-hairs off of Satoshi since this is someone claiming to own a major part of the idea of Bitcoin.

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

I'm trying to wrap my head around how you could patent embedding private keys into coins.

RoadToHell

sr. member

Activity: 260

Merit: 250

It's a good thing that toilets were invented before the patent offices got all wacky. Otherwise we'd all be up sh*t creek.

RoadToHell

sr. member

Activity: 260

Merit: 250

I quickly read through the Claims section (which is the meat of any patent), but won't have time to look at the rest of the application until this evening. Claims 24, 30 and 31 look like they might contain new material. I think that all of the others can be countered with prior art. It will be interesting to see if the application detail backs up those claims with any substance.

The application can be found here:
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20130166455.PGNR.&OS=DN/20130166455&RS=DN/20130166455

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: cbeast on July 01, 2013, 09:39:25 AM

What kind of legal exposure would a patent holder have for Bitbills that are used for illegal activities?

Haha - great idea - forward on the patent application to the NSA (although probably not necessary as they would already know about it) and to FinCEN and let them reap the benefits!

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

What kind of legal exposure would a patent holder have for Bitbills that are used for illegal activities?

canton

sr. member

Activity: 261

Merit: 285

Quote from: BitTrade on July 01, 2013, 08:35:28 AM

If it's too broad, it will not be enforceable. This is a clear case of patent bullying.

Here's my concern: If BitBill is lucky enough to get their patent approved, it won't matter whether or not they can enforce their patent by winning in court. All they have to do is send letters demanding licensing fees from companies and individuals knowing full well that their targets won't be able to afford fighting the validity of the request in court.

Here's a great (entertaining and informative) radio show on the topic of "patent trolls" and how they use overly broad patents to extort fees from startups: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/496/when-patents-attack-part-two

I'll of course be following this closely because my hobby project (https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com) would be directly impacted by the approval of this patent, even though I'm not selling "currency" of any sort.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: BitTrade on July 01, 2013, 08:35:28 AM

Also keep in mind guys, contrary to what most believe, you can't patent an "idea" (such as the "idea" of physical / cold storage bitcoins).

Your premise is very true although in recent years patents in the USA have been mostly granted regardless of how broad they are (perhaps as a money-making exercise in itself by the authorities that grant them) so that patents for ideas *are* being granted and then later have to be battled (at a huge cost to a small business).

The patent system really has no purpose in the modern world (it's original purpose was to encourage publication - we have the internet for that now) - the sooner it is scrapped the better (ditto for copyright - my other major bugbear).

mindtomatter

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 254

Editor-in-Chief of Let's Talk Bitcoin!

The patent is very inclusive of techniques, means, methods, mediums. It may be unenforceable, but it can be used as a cudgel against smaller players who might like to enter the market but don't want to risk an infringement lawsuit.

BitTrade

full member

Activity: 173

Merit: 100

Also keep in mind guys, contrary to what most believe, you can't patent an "idea" (such as the "idea" of physical / cold storage bitcoins). You can only patent a VERY specific system or design. So even if this patent application is accepted, it would be so limited in scope so as to make it next to meaningless. If it's too broad, it will not be enforceable. This is a clear case of patent bullying.

mindtomatter

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 254

Editor-in-Chief of Let's Talk Bitcoin!

Quote from: cdog on July 01, 2013, 05:01:16 AM

Quote from: mindtomatter on June 30, 2013, 10:03:37 PM

Mike Caldwell’s Casascius Coin (here is a great vid of Mike “pressing” coins).

Id be interested in watching this, but the link doesnt show up for me.

Im very interested in seeing BTC bills, and although I understand why llama is trying to corner the market, I dont like this approach at all.

Just let free competition happen, and may the best physical bitcoins win.

I think physical, multi-denomination BTC is a huge, necessary step forward towards mass adoption.

You can read the full story (with updates) here which includes live links http://letstalkbitcoin.com/post/54309560858/bitbills-to-relaunch-cold-storage-patent-application

You can find the direct link to the video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NyzDY7NUOo

apetersson

hero member

Activity: 668

Merit: 501

Quote from: CIYAM on July 01, 2013, 05:51:45 AM

The day I decided that American patents (in IT at least) were ridiculous was when RLE was patented (back in the 80's).

in europe most software-only ideas are not patentable. the trouble unfortunately begins when you interact with the physical world, like with qr codes it suddenly becomes patentable.
I think the whole patent system is broken and just shovels money to lawyers and hinders innovation.

it would be great if we had some consensus on that in the bitcoin world. since the field is relatively new i forsee new a lot of patents on relatively obvious stuff (like this) being patented. maybe we should gather together and build a non-agression alliance with enough power to eliminate this threat.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

The day I decided that American patents (in IT at least) were ridiculous was when RLE was patented (back in the 80's).

Any student who sees a bunch of bytes like this: 0x40 0x40 0x40 0x80 0x80
will come up with the idea of: 0x03 0x40 0x02 0x80

anyone who thinks that such trivial stuff should even be "patentable" should probably consider patenting the English language itself (who knows maybe that will be next in the land where your own genes belong to some corporation).

Birdy

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: EhVedadoOAnonimato on July 01, 2013, 05:00:36 AM

This is disgusting. What's this lame llama thinking?

I'll never buy a single bitbill. I hope more people boycott them as well.

This, patent trolling is on the same level as scammers imo.

cdog

hero member

Activity: 1036

Merit: 500

Quote from: mindtomatter on June 30, 2013, 10:03:37 PM

Mike Caldwell’s Casascius Coin (here is a great vid of Mike “pressing” coins).

Id be interested in watching this, but the link doesnt show up for me.

Im very interested in seeing BTC bills, and although I understand why llama is trying to corner the market, I dont like this approach at all.

Just let free competition happen, and may the best physical bitcoins win.

I think physical, multi-denomination BTC is a huge, necessary step forward towards mass adoption.

EhVedadoOAnonimato

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

This is disgusting. What's this lame llama thinking?

I'll never buy a single bitbill. I hope more people boycott them as well. I'm actually considering buying some casacius coins - or any other competitor - just as a form of protest.

I also hope this happens:

Quote from: CIYAM on July 01, 2013, 04:54:20 AM

Something can easily be set up in China if this (typically) silly patent is granted

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Something can easily be set up in China if this (typically) silly patent is granted (and unfortunately many silly patents *do* get granted in the USA which then later have to be challenged making lawyers rich and small businesses poor).

/dev/null

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

Quote from: BitTrade on July 01, 2013, 01:58:43 AM

I wouldn't sweat this, guys. I'm not an IP lawyer, but I do hold a patent, and know quite a bit on the subject. Patents like this are next to meaningless, as it would likely only protect someone from recreating an EXACT replica of their solution. This filing seems to be meant for the sole purpose of deterring / scaring competition, or possibly just out of ignorance of patent law as far as what this filing would protect.

Mike, if you're interested, I can get you in touch with a top-notch bitcoin-friendly libertarian patent lawyer who would likely be glad to take a look at this issue for you.

There is a big difference in other patients and this one.
They are trying to patent a stuff which wasn't even their idea and it's not also good for bitcoin due to all the problems USA govt is creating now.
I'm not sure what kind of technology they are going to use on cards, but if it's not QR or some opensource stuff, i guess they will be able to lock funds otherwise i'm sure they will keep Public key data and customers all info.

Topic: Bitbill Patent Published - Encompasses Physical Bitcoins and Paper Wallets - page 3. (Read 8399 times)