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Topic: Bitcoin 1mb or Bitcoin 2mb - page 3. (Read 2743 times)

legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1087
February 14, 2016, 05:53:34 PM
#16
Why do you keep repeating this? Clams were a separate POS alt from minute one. All bitcoin was used for was as a fair way of air dropping it.
Your point being? They could have called it Bitcoin Clams. The point is: They forked with existing balances and without consensus.


Try reading the sentence I wrote?

It was never anything to do with Bitcoin. It was POS and every btc, ltc and doge balance received the exact same amount. It was an attempt to improve distribution. Nothing more.
legendary
Activity: 1615
Merit: 1000
February 14, 2016, 05:50:20 PM
#15
Why would people want 2 MB when there is a better proposed solution?

That would depend on what problem you see being addressed. To me, neither Classic nor Core are proposing the right solution, although Classic's direction seems better. This is because, IMO, deciding the amount and types of transactions to include in blocks should be left to the people bearing the costs of running the network: miners and nodes. Bitcoin was set up to be a free market experiment from the get go and the blocksize cap was, at best, a distasteful short-term compromise. Central planning doesn't fit here.
sr. member
Activity: 423
Merit: 250
February 14, 2016, 05:49:28 PM
#14
Classic is just another Bitcoin client fully compatible with all previous and future Bitcoin blocks. The only diference from Core is it allows miners to vote for new bigger block limit, but if no overwhelming majority of miners vote for new limit, we stay at the current one. Bitcoin limit was already changed in the past, and we still call it Bitcoin.
It is compatible because it is not activated. The moment that it gets activated with the set consensus threshold it will cause a network split, effectively splitting the current network into two pieces. The limit change in the past is not comparable to the situation that we have today. The change was within the same client.

The client has nothing to do with it unless you believe Bitcoin is Bitcoin Core only, and who controls Bitcoin Core controls Bitcoin. Pretty disgusting considering Bitcoin Core leaders are full mouths of decentralization, but only when it fits their agenda, not decentralized development.

Even 95% could produce network split, this is not argument. Especially when you want give 5% vetto power to block futher Bitcoin improvements - good guide how to paralyze Bitcoin for minimal cost to anyone interested hurting Bitcoin.  Embarrassed
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1040
A Great Time to Start Something!
February 14, 2016, 05:39:07 PM
#13
Bitcoin 1mb or Bitcoin 2mb?
Don't care at all, really.
^^^
We need bigger blocks (for future growth), and people to find a way to agree and move on.
Let's get this settled before another several months fly by.
sr. member
Activity: 423
Merit: 250
February 14, 2016, 05:27:00 PM
#12
This is a contentious HF; the main point behind it is taking control over the main implementation (currently Core).

This is not true, Bitcoin Classic simplifies the process of people/miners to use/vote on the 2 MB new limit. You can as well merge the 2 MB BIP to Bitcoin Core yourselves if you preffer.


Why would people want 2 MB when there is a better proposed solution?

Both can be added, and because 2 MB is easier we will be ready for more Bitcoin users sonner. Also 2 MB is in future Core plans anyway so having it ready sonner just in case wave of Bitcoin adoption come is highly beneficial for Bitcoin keeping its market share.


These's also the problem (e.g.) of the non existing team of developers behind Classic.

Gavin is no doubt one of the best Bitcoin Developers, Jeff one of the top as well. Few other as well. Also it is new team and more will come later, especially if the 2 MB is tiggered and Core refuses to change just to dont loose face like small kids and egoistic people do
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
February 14, 2016, 05:26:19 PM
#11

No, 75% is not consensus and this has nothing to do with "my opinion". 90-95% (nobody ever talked about 100%) does not make sense only from a game theory perspective (most people here using this as an argument know nothing about it).

Well then enlighten us.  If 75% is not consensus, then what is? And why?


By definition consensus is 100%. However, in practice that is not achievable, so we use supermajority. The current definition of supermajority which is used by soft forks in the IsSuperMajority function is 95%, which is what we should use for hard forks.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
February 14, 2016, 05:23:37 PM
#10

No, 75% is not consensus and this has nothing to do with "my opinion". 90-95% (nobody ever talked about 100%) does not make sense only from a game theory perspective (most people here using this as an argument know nothing about it).

Well then enlighten us.  If 75% is not consensus, then what is? And why?

legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
February 14, 2016, 05:18:15 PM
#9
Why do you keep repeating this? Clams were a separate POS alt from minute one. All bitcoin was used for was as a fair way of air dropping it.
Your point being? They could have called it Bitcoin Clams. The point is: They forked with existing balances and without consensus.

Core 0.12 is in beta stage, not stable version. Also if 75% majority of miners choose increase the block limit, you will need wait for Core to add 2 MB patch, with Classic your ready already and Classic 0.12 beta as a copy of the Core is in the work as well.
It is stable enough; about to be released.

I dont agree, Clams merged Bitcoin, Litecoin and Doge as a new PoS coin.
That's not the point.

Classic is just another Bitcoin client fully compatible with all previous and future Bitcoin blocks. The only diference from Core is it allows miners to vote for new bigger block limit, but if no overwhelming majority of miners vote for new limit, we stay at the current one. Bitcoin limit was already changed in the past, and we still call it Bitcoin.
It is compatible because it is not activated. The moment that it gets activated with the set consensus threshold it will cause a network split, effectively splitting the current network into two pieces. The limit change in the past is not comparable to the situation that we have today. The change was within the same client.

The reason you dont agree 75% is enought is just your opinion, consensus, eg 100% cannot exist
No, 75% is not consensus and this has nothing to do with "my opinion". 90-95% (nobody ever talked about 100%) does not make sense only from a game theory perspective (most people here using this as an argument know nothing about it). Let's also not forget the double spend risks and whatnot when two chains co-exist (happened for a short period in 2013).
sr. member
Activity: 423
Merit: 250
February 14, 2016, 05:01:07 PM
#8
Seems like win situation to have Classic running instead of Core because your full node will be functioning normally no matter what happens, especially when you dont check the situation often.
Upgrade to Core 0.12 and you will be fine.

Core 0.12 is in beta stage, not stable version. Also if 75% majority of miners choose increase the block limit, you will need wait for Core to add 2 MB patch, with Classic your ready already and Classic 0.12 beta as a copy of the Core is in the work as well.


3. If anything, Classic is the altcoin here. Should I bring up the story of Clams? Clams forked away from Bitcoin without consensus and retained existing balances (they were redeemable). The difference between Classic and Clams is that it is not called "Bitcoin Clams".  Wink

I dont agree, Clams merged Bitcoin, Litecoin and Doge as a new PoS coin.

Classic is just another Bitcoin client fully compatible with all previous and future Bitcoin blocks. The only diference from Core is it allows miners to vote for new bigger block limit, but if no overwhelming majority of miners vote for new limit, we stay at the current one. Bitcoin limit was already changed in the past, and we still call it Bitcoin  Wink  The reason you dont agree 75% is enought is just your opinion, consensus, eg 100% cannot exist
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1087
February 14, 2016, 05:00:57 PM
#7

3. If anything, Classic is the altcoin here. Should I bring up the story of Clams? Clams forked away from Bitcoin without consensus and retained existing balances (they were redeemable). The difference between Classic and Clams is that it is not called "Bitcoin Clams".  Wink


Why do you keep repeating this? Clams were a separate POS alt from minute one. All bitcoin was used for was as a fair way of air dropping it.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
February 14, 2016, 04:46:50 PM
#6
So is the real difference between classic and core literally just the block size? If thats all it is, why dont people just move to 2mb, whats the reason to stay at 1mb when that block size is a potential problem?
There are many reasons for this even though your question might seem simple. This is a contentious HF; the main point behind it is taking control over the main implementation (currently Core). Why would people want 2 MB when there is a better proposed solution? These's also the problem (e.g.) of the non existing team of developers behind Classic.
member
Activity: 141
Merit: 19
February 14, 2016, 04:44:28 PM
#5
Actually Classic is just Core with the 2 MB. If majority of miners dont vote for the 2 MB block limit, there is not functional difference between Classic and Core. If they do, your ready for the new block limit and you dont need to worry about upgrading in the 28 days grace period.

Seems like win situation to have Classic running instead of Core because your full node will be functioning normally no matter what happens, especially when you dont check the situation often.

So is the real difference between classic and core literally just the block size? If thats all it is, why dont people just move to 2mb, whats the reason to stay at 1mb when that block size is a potential problem?

legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
February 14, 2016, 04:32:45 PM
#4
I'm aware of the in's and out of both clients including the proposed SegWit™™™ and Lightening Network™™™ solutions, and while these are great ideas, they just aren't bitcoin. To implement them would involve moving away from bitcoins original design, thus creating... dare i say it, an alt-coin.

So heres me jumping off the fence and going with Bitcoin 2mb or classic as its otherwise known.
Your post is full of nonsense and ignorance. Have you been hanging out at /r/btc lately? Let's start:
1. Segwit is not comparable to LN and does not symbolize something that "is not Bitcoin". Segwit in its essence is a change of the way that the data is being stored.
2. LN does not involve moving "away from Bitcoins original design" or whatever this means. It is certainly not an altcoin.
3. If anything, Classic is the altcoin here. Should I bring up the story of Clams? Clams forked away from Bitcoin without consensus and retained existing balances (they were redeemable). The difference between Classic and Clams is that it is not called "Bitcoin Clams".  Wink

Seems like win situation to have Classic running instead of Core because your full node will be functioning normally no matter what happens, especially when you dont check the situation often.
Upgrade to Core 0.12 and you will be fine.
sr. member
Activity: 423
Merit: 250
February 14, 2016, 04:04:11 PM
#3
Actually Classic is just Core with the 2 MB. If majority of miners dont vote for the 2 MB block limit, there is not functional difference between Classic and Core. If they do, your ready for the new block limit and you dont need to worry about upgrading in the 28 days grace period.

Seems like win situation to have Classic running instead of Core because your full node will be functioning normally no matter what happens, especially when you dont check the situation often.
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
February 14, 2016, 03:41:43 PM
#2
Well if you know the in's and out's of the clients and SegWit and lightning, then you should know that we also need SegWit for its original purpose. We need SegWit to solve the transaction malleability problem, and I think that whatever scaling solution is settled upon, SegWit is something that Bitcoin needs to solve one of the biggest issues.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
February 14, 2016, 03:34:38 PM
#1
Over the last few days I've had both 1mb and 2mb version's of bitcoin installed (you may know them as core and classic) i decided to install both together and see which i intuitively chose to run, and funnily enough i keep navigating towards the latter.

I'm aware of the in's and out of both clients including the proposed SegWit™™™ and Lightening Network™™™ solutions, and while these are great ideas, they just aren't bitcoin. To implement them would involve moving away from bitcoins original design, thus creating... dare i say it, an alt-coin.

So heres me jumping off the fence and going with Bitcoin 2mb or classic as its otherwise known.

Regards,
J
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