Topic: Bitcoin a top player in Libertarian Government (Read 334 times)

I am not entirely sure if government could get access to anything at all, these days online privacy is a lot better, and it would be impossible for anyone to just "access" to everything. However, I am pretty sure that Libertarian government ideas are so bad that there are nearly no liberterian running any nation, certainly not any nation that matters, and it will never happen neither, it is totally useless to consider as an idea.

"Anarchy" and captalists get together, and to be fair it's literally that, people who want to go against government, and capitalists who want no laws in business world to make it work even harsher for employees, that’s it.

No government is a Libertarian government. People will subdue if they feel happy and content if the government is providing for the people. There will be no need for forcing people to pay taxes if they are happy. But if it's spent on a useless war that also affects our lives, it's no surprise people will not pay the electric bills and pay no tax.

Crypto anarchy I guess is only a finance revolutionary movement in which the government may really have to give up this control because crypto is not theirs to regulate.

I guess, Libertarian government have heard how Bitcoin has helped some undevelop countries to developed, because their government made Bitcoin legal for their citizens to have access to Bitcoin in the country. Since many bitcoiners in libertarian are still working to ensure their government make Bitcoin legal and create a good environment for bitcoiners to prove to their government that Bitcoin was created to eliminate errors from country economy and reduce unemployment from the land.

I don't think crypto anarchy is an attractive concept for the masses. In fact, most people are perfectly comfortable with the idea of a government backed fiat system because they prefer centralization over decentralization for the sake of stability. Digressing from the conversation that government currency is in fact unstable, stick with libertarianism.

The libertarians parties IMO aren't as pro-crypto as some fiscal conservatives can be. A fiscal conservative would believe in pro-market capitalism, so if perhaps a competitive environment between all currencies instead of propelling government backed fiat. Would libertarians support regulating the crypto industry for under the guise of consumer protections? Does being pro-liberty mean being anti-corporation for the sake of consumer liberty? I'm not sure.

Regardless, conservative parties all over the world already have reasonable footing in most countries. It's easier to get them to adopt a pro-crypto platform than it would be for liberals. Getting libertarians into power is a hassle and just fragment the vote ensuring the liberal majorities get power. I'm not interested in propping up libertarians that will just take votes from the conservatives when electing pro-crypto conservatives could be done with a fraction of the effort/liability.

As for me, I'd rather forget about these political concepts. They're a fad. Like shitcoins, they come and go. They will have their days and then some other political philosophy would take over, last for some time, and, just like the rest, fade in the background.

Bitcoin has pros and cons and depending on where you are coming from, Bitcoin may be good or bad to you. Freedom is sweetest to those who are oppressed and shackled. To those who are in power and control, it's a risk, an obstacle. The government, in many case, is on the side of power. So whatever philosophy it's following, it functions the way it has to.

We always bicker the fact that 90 percent of wealth is concentrated with only 1 percent of people. Which is fairly unfair. No matter how hard we work, no matter what annual increment we get, we are always behind the curve, federal Bank keeps on increasing its interst rates to ensure we stay in net debt. This dept trap make us work more hard and this is how economy is working. But the wealth stays only with 1 percent.
This need to change, for that the first step is to overcome the controller systems. One if which is bank...so yes I agreee Bitcoin will help us overcome banking system the first step of liberty.

What you say is very real, it may be that Freedom refers to what financial freedom is, where it is emphasized that you can have freedom with enough money to acquire anything except health, but those who claim freedom in terms of goods and services, Bitcoin does help, in the case of countries with very high inflation, as in the case of Venezuela, it is an economy so out of control that it makes the one who has Bitcoin normal, the one who has dollars the same inflation makes the they inflate the dollar, then the freedoms are slowly running out, because we could call everything known as "life" freedom, because with all the money in the world, with comfort and without anything being needed, if you don't have health you don't have any.

The idea of a libertarian government is a good one, but I don't think that it is the only way to achieve the goals of the crypto anarchist movement. It is important to remember that the government is made up of people who are Fallible and that they will make mistakes. It is also important to remember that the government is made up of people who are worried about their own power and their own interests and that they will do what they can to protect those interests.

There are other ways to achieve those goals, and that we should explore all of our options.

But yea, I agree with the notion that  the government does need to have less control over people's lives, and that this can be achieved through the use of cryptocurrencies.

That world is not possible, i don't even think Bitcoin at inception was created for the entire world to understand and use it, there are people who are just fine with the centralized system they use, we prolly know they are completely under government control, but they do not see it that way, and for some of those people, they would never actually see Bitcoin for what it actually is, and sometimes there isn't any need trying to convince them. Quite a lot of people as well only have a very minimal amount of funds, without any savings or extra money, these set of people wouldn't ever see Bitcoin as a currency or even an asset, they just want to do their small jobs, earn a small living and have meals to eat.

Having said that, let the people who have lesser problems in life to enable them want freedom and control of their finances use the Bitcoin currency and hodl it for the long period, over time the numbers have been growing and it will continue to do so, we must understand that in as much as Bitcoin is a fascinating network, not everyone can 'afford' to use or care about it.

That is how capitalism works today. Its the big businesses that really is running the world and they know how to corrupt everything including the politicians which we the people put in the position just so we think we have the power to elect someone but actually not.

GAK (Government Access to Key) seem a very threat to everyone so we need one  libertarian Government candidate, who do you think they have in mind?

I agree that Bitcoin aligns well with libertarianism by taking away what's usually under the control of authorities and giving it to people themselves in the area of finance. Unfortunately, it seems that not many people agree that the state should have little control. In fact, many support the idea of a fairly strong state, as long as it's a caring one: with high taxes for the riches, good social support system, affordable medicine and education etc. The idea of a limited government means not only more freedom but also less support and normally more capitalism, and capitalism is something many despise because of how insensitive and hurtful it can be to those who can't effectively participate.

People don't want freedom, they want their government to solve problems, real or imaginary. Also, a libertarian country won't survive for long because non-libertarian countries could mobilize more resources against it and win a war or change the regime through political or economic interference.

You should stop thinking that freedom is the only thing that matters, because freedom is not worth much if you don't have money, food, home, health.

the silly thing with americans is

they say they want the days of wild west again. where there are no laws.
yet everyone saying it never actually lived in that uncivilised violent society of disease, theft and rape/pillage

they say they want no laws.. yet america is "sue central" a country that loves laws and ability to sue each other for even the smallest things

they say they dont like tax waste, yet they get very patriotic about wasting military money to invade other countries but want to say that america should not have used even a third of that tax waste on medical care for its own people

yea they think people should pay less tax but the things they want that smaller tax treasury budget to be used for is mostly to fund businesses and wars not the people

seems america doesnt know what it truly wants

lets take bitcoin
most American bitcoiners loved the idea of bitcoin going mainstream when governments legalised it as current in ~2014
where by the repercussions is that being  legally recognised currency meant that currency regulations then applied to businesses.

they thank people who invade countries thousands of miles away, but treat people being turned away from hospitals as scum that dont deserve respect
...
as for bitcoin libertarianism
yep before being defined as a currency bitcoin was just a tradable product. like pokemon cards or beanie babies. it had a value/price.. but not the silly regulations of AML/KYC and tax reporting
heck even the "privacy" laws changed.. because personal property privacy laws are difference to financial privacy laws. so yep bitcoin lost alot of privacy rights when it was declared a currency. and now only the privacy privileges of the bank secrecy act apply. which are where financial services can monitor its customers financial activity and report it to government if they find suspicious activity

crypto is no longer in the libertarian era of adoptors.
and a libertarian government is not happening soon when america politics is just a 2 party choice between the dems and reps

even in the UK there is the pretense of a 3 party race between conservatives, labour and lib dem.. but its actually just a 2 party race of labour and conservatives
where lib dems are used by conservatives as the tool to dilute/syphon votes away from labour to strengthen conservative chances of winning

and politics does not care about meeting the majority of citizens needs/wants.. it believes in just getting a majority vote to then do as the winning side wants

take UK politics when they had a coalition        C   LD   L
you would think if there was say a election of  48 - 7 - 45  you would think a political party wanting to meet the needs of majority of people would choose a coalition of C+ L to have goals that meat 93% of citizens needs. but instead they went 55% by siding with LD to ensure the conservatives won and conservative control was majority

libertarian is a fantasy. its the "pursuit of happiness", "follow your dream".. which no where in those phrases do they mean. achieve, get, fulfil

its much like pretending citizens can help change laws.. but governments dont educate people to use lobby groups or petitions that are filed in government buildings which legally cant be ignored. instead the game is to tell people to cry/shut in street protests.. which has NO legal/lawful path to law changes

yep organise a 1m street protest.. laws dont change.. organise a 100k petition, makes politicians atleast have to discuss the context of the demands for change
uk:
"Create or sign a petition that asks for a change to the law or to government policy. After 10,000 signatures, petitions get a response from the government. After 100,000 signatures, petitions are considered for debate in Parliament."

so all this libertarian street protects for 1m people.. do nothing and have done nothing.

im all for less laws less regulations and also efficient use of treasury money to go to help the citizens. not business/other country profits/invasions
but americans version of "libertarianism" which is just to make people stay asleep, dream and follow dreams without waking up.. well no not gonna happen and people need to wake up

I don't know why you waste your time explaining this on socialistalk.org.

Few are those in the forum who express a libertarian vision, it is a thing that caught my attention some time ago and I opened a related thread

Socialists in Bitcoin(talk).



Not a chance. The rich are bad, we need more state, more regulations, teach children from a young age that there are 72 genders they can choose from and change them as they feel like it, etc.

Libertarian governments will be having even harder problems than the ones we have. Imagine a world where bitcoin does allow people to be more decentralized, but there are poor people in the nation, how are we going to help them?

Let's assume that you do not want to, you want every person to be responsible for their own life, then what's going to happen to them? Are you willing to create a government where millions of people are homeless, starving, even dead on the streets? Is that okay for you? Because, you wanted everyone to be their own financial boss, so you do not help anyone, which caused people to not be careful and they would die, is that fine? I personally think it's not.

I believe that governments and taxes are a necessary evil.

Don't get me wrong: governments tax us way too much and spend our money like drunken sailors. There is a lot of waste and corruption!

But I don't believe in self-government. It may work for small groups of homogenous people, but I don't see it working for large groups of heterogenous people.

In the case of money, I do think decentralization is a great way for the masses to regain some of their power against governments, but Bitcoin's value is still too unstable right now.

Most people don't have a lot of money. Why would they put their hard-earned money in a currency that can lose 50% of its value within a week? Why would they wait months, if not years, for Bitcoin to regain its lost value?

As with Bitcoin, it doesn't work in all cases. Much of my outlooks in life are probably associated with socialism, and obviously Wales has quite the history with socialist beliefs, with the National Health Service. However, I'm quite quick to accept that it doesn't work in every single situation, so much like Bitcoin it's not for everyone or every single situation you can think of.

Decentralisation only works in certain areas. If you implemented it everywhere it just wouldn't make sense. Same as a Libertarian Government likely wouldn't work great on it's own. I think extracting key beliefs from each, and implementing them based on the situation is much more effective.

For example, a decentralised currency such as Bitcoin makes sense. However, even Bitcoin is subject to more centralisation in certain areas. For example, mining.

This is precisely why majority of the governments are still not showing favor for bitcoin or any other cryptos. They quite well understand that if they accept cryptos, that will reduce the dependency on the state controlled fiat which will in turn reduce the power of the government. That's why they are resisting big time. Some democratic governments are surely appreciating cryptos but majority are still skeptical.

Libertarianism is non existent at this moment. It is just a concept that no one follows to be honest.

Libertarianism is likely an ancient concept. I know one of the major parties in the UK was a libertarian one between 1700-1900 and I think the Roman empire started to adopt it as it was collapsing (or to enable expanding before it collapsed - like most empires have done since).

One of the main problems I see with it is that most of the powers libertarian governments give up are ones businesses gain the most power from or harness to try to get more power - rather than the people. Reducing regulations greatly benefits businesses than individuals because they have to do less testing to adhere to the regulations and normally don't pass this onto their customers - because they paid a higher price before. Other things like minimum wage and workers rights become a lot easier to exploit too.

And we must not forget that this kind of libertarianism is only found with bitcoin but not with other cryptos because they were centralized, bitcoin focus it's main target with financial aspect and succeeded in achieving that freedom away from the government.


this misconception has always been as their excuses times without number but governments have forgotten that even before bitcoin was introduced, there have been varieties of atrocities all over the world in the economy system and bitcoin is not a contributor to either of these but rather providing more ways these can be reduced through decentralization, employment, investment, security with finance, privacy, anonymity and profitability using a p2p network.


but at the end, you make it sound that this topic talks more of politics and society or economics which makes it advisable for such board.