Bitcoin address Vs Genetic variability

bitcoindusts

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Bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto was pretty confident on the unlimited number of times one can generate a bitcoin wallet address, he even said, "generate all you want!" He was convinced that the same wallet need not to be used twice.

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When you generate a new bitcoin address, it only takes disk space on your own computer (like 500 bytes). It's like generating a new PGP private key, but less CPU intensive because it's ECC. The address space is effectively unlimited. It doesn't hurt anyone, so generate all you want.

Though i'm really in no position to engage on the debate of bitcoin address against generic variability. All i know is that one person can have a multitude of wallets as he wants, that's pretty enough for me. #winks

kucritt

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i think when we generated the private key to get new address, its immposble that the private key is genereated twice, we can see that there are mnay characters in the private key and its dont have any pattern, i think its possible that private key generated twice but with 1:1000000000000000 possibility

akunate

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There are many more features along with code properties in DNA

Tenarlty

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MINTER

Common people? Those without a Royal title? I didn't know that royalty had a better grasp of bitcoin than the rest of us.

666uazan

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Still, 256bit is an awful lot:
http://miguelmoreno.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/fYFBsqp.jpg

FlowerMatt

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Even if you assume that the genes are all there is in the genetic data (which I think has fallen out of favor long ago), and that only 1000 of them have an alternative form, it would give you around 10300 combinations, which is interestingly still magnitudes higher than the number of particles in the universe.

Basically, private key generation doesn't even come close. Yet it is practically impossible to generate the same key in different conditions. Large numbers are confusing.

FlowerMatt

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Depends on how you count. If you look at it as meaningless data, the possible combinations are magnitudes higher than the number of particles in the observable universe.

StatusSeeking

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DNA is ~1.5Gb of data whereas a private key is 32 bytes of data, so there's far (far far) more data in DNA than in a private key. Hence DNA can hold many more possibilities than a private key could.

However the amount of actual variance found between humans is tiny. Humans share 99.9% of their DNA with each other. Still 0.01% * 1.5Gb = 1.5 Mb, still far far bigger than the 32 bytes in a private key.

Conclusion: Genetic variance is many orders of magnitude vaster than bitcoin private key space.

cuddaloreappu

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all hail the majestic genes...

shorena

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No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: nkocevar on July 16, 2014, 11:22:09 AM

So if you dont look at the possible combinations, but the randomness, BTC addresses win out correct?

If the genome would be randomly distributed. That is: each kid would be random and had an idenpendent genetical code from the parents.
BTC address would not "win". Not even close.

4^6000000000 >> 2¹⁶⁰

may it helps so see if we convert 2¹⁶⁰ (possible keys/addresses) to base 4. That 4⁸⁰. Do you see how big a difference this is now? There are 4 ^{5,999,999,920} more possible humans than there are possible private keys. Even if you consider that 99.99% of all humans have the same genome and differ only in 0.01% of it. Even that tiny part of the genetic code has more possibilities than bitcoin.

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Mit etwa 3,27 Milliarden Basenpaaren hätte das Genom des Menschen demnach einen maximal möglichen Informationsgehalt von 6,54 Milliarden bit oder 780 MiB.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genom

Use a translator or search for the english version (I cant find it). Bitcoin has 160 bit, the genome has 6.54 billion.

phatsphere

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to calculate this for the genome, you have to take into account that there are only "very few" variations per sequence possible and most of them are not known. e.g. think of all the mutilated babies wherever depleted uranium ammunition has been used http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34351.htm

cuddaloreappu

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Quote from: nkocevar on July 16, 2014, 11:22:09 AM

So if you dont look at the possible combinations, but the randomness, BTC addresses win out correct?

yeah in randomness bitcoin wins

nkocevar

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So if you dont look at the possible combinations, but the randomness, BTC addresses win out correct?

Lorenzo

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Identical twins have identical genomes, although they might still be distinguishable on an epigenomic level.

Furthermore, the distribution of genetic changes in humans differs depending on what part of the genome you are talking about. Some areas have high variability (e.g. single nucleotide polymorphisms and variable tandem repeats) even among closely-related individuals, while other parts of the genome rarely change.

btcton

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Quote from: shorena on July 16, 2014, 02:56:38 AM

Quote from: cuddaloreappu on July 15, 2014, 01:21:42 PM

yeah I get it now.. you used 0.001 since 99.99% of all human genome is same.

so finally there are more genetic combinations than btc address combinations...

Yes and not just a little more but the human genome is a totally different ballpark. Think of: seconds in a minute relate to possible btc addresses like possible btc adresses relate to possible different humans.

Thats just something I came up with, its not based on the numbers since I cant find a calculator that can work out the big numbers youd need fot the human genome.

Also human distribution is dependend. You are not like any possible human at random, but you are part of each of your parents.

True this. Genetics aren't random. BTC addresses are.

shorena

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No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: cuddaloreappu on July 15, 2014, 01:21:42 PM

yeah I get it now.. you used 0.001 since 99.99% of all human genome is same.

so finally there are more genetic combinations than btc address combinations...

Yes and not just a little more but the human genome is a totally different ballpark. Think of: seconds in a minute relate to possible btc addresses like possible btc adresses relate to possible different humans.

Thats just something I came up with, its not based on the numbers since I cant find a calculator that can work out the big numbers youd need fot the human genome.

Also human distribution is dependend. You are not like any possible human at random, but you are part of each of your parents.

cuddaloreappu

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yeah I get it now.. you used 0.001 since 99.99% of all human genome is same.

so finally there are more genetic combinations than btc address combinations...

cuddaloreappu

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Quote from: shorena on July 15, 2014, 09:38:40 AM

Quote from: cuddaloreappu on July 15, 2014, 08:38:04 AM

lot of fear for people who think what if there are two similar randomly generated private keys at different parts of the world.

But there is no need to worry since the ocean of private keys is so large that any two randomly generated private key to be similar is like almost next to impossible, but common people cannot get the feeling out of mind, that this may eventually happen one day

but think about our genes, no two person is alike so it is easy to think in terms of genes...

So my question is which one is better, genetic code variability with just 4 bases in DNA ( cytosine, adenine, guanine,thymine)

or is bitcoin private key generation even above genetic variability.

2¹⁶⁰ different private keys [1] vs. 4^6*10⁹ * 0.0001 [2] [3] different humans

1,46 * 10⁴⁸ vs. number to big for wolfram alpha... sorry the idea was nice but 4^6*10⁶ * 0.0001 = 8.8*10^3612355 according to wolfram alpha. Yeah... not a comparison you want to make.

[1] since RIPEDM - 160 is used
[2] according to this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUDqI9PJpc8 there are 6 billion words in the gnome each has 4 different possible values.
[3] same source [2] 99.99% of genetic code is identical for all humans

why are you multiplying by 0.0001

cuddaloreappu

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Quote from: nkocevar on July 15, 2014, 10:04:51 AM

Quote from: shorena on July 15, 2014, 09:38:40 AM

Quote from: cuddaloreappu on July 15, 2014, 08:38:04 AM

lot of fear for people who think what if there are two similar randomly generated private keys at different parts of the world.

But there is no need to worry since the ocean of private keys is so large that any two randomly generated private key to be similar is like almost next to impossible, but common people cannot get the feeling out of mind, that this may eventually happen one day

but think about our genes, no two person is alike so it is easy to think in terms of genes...

So my question is which one is better, genetic code variability with just 4 bases in DNA ( cytosine, adenine, guanine,thymine)

or is bitcoin private key generation even above genetic variability.

2¹⁶⁰ different private keys [1] vs. 4^6*10⁹ * 0.0001 [2] [3] different humans

1,46 * 10⁴⁸ vs. number to big for wolfram alpha... sorry the idea was nice but 4^6*10⁶ * 0.0001 = 8.8*10^3612355 according to wolfram alpha. Yeah... not a comparison you want to make.

[1] since RIPEDM - 160 is used
[2] according to this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUDqI9PJpc8 there are 6 billion words in the gnome each has 4 different possible values.
[3] same source [2] 99.99% of genetic code is identical for all humans

Excuse my inability to understand, but can you do a THCR on what you just said?

i think instead of words lets just use base pairs adenine pairs thymine and guanine pairs with cytosine creating around roughly 3 billion base pairs..so it is permutation within this 3 billion base pairs that creates variability!

cuddaloreappu

hero member

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Okay here are some resources to work out the math..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_genome

Topic: Bitcoin address Vs Genetic variability (Read 2105 times)