Topic: Bitcoin Advocates , Do you Know Who Your Masters Are? (Read 2011 times)

No , the Chinese are the only ones being smart,
it is all of the idiots in the other countries that are being stupid, by not creating enough mining power to keep China's control under 51%.

Those same idiots proclaim BTC is Decentralized and are lying when they do so.
Ignoring the 51% attack problem is like walking toward a cliff blindfolded.


 

Hey Asshat,

It would be a problem if it was the US too,
shove your racism up your butt.


 

51% attack

Google it you might learn something. 

 

You want to blame the Chinese for being clever enough to grab the biggest share of the hashing power? The West can take down these mines, if

they decide to use the resources at hand, but they would rather invest in bigger bombs and expensive weapons to fight "Oil" wars. There are tons

of resources in Silicon Valley.... but they want to develop worthless gadgets to sell to ignorant consumers with loads of debt. The Chinese exchanges

have no trading fees... but the exchanges in the West wants to concentrate on profits, so they charge people to trade in Bitcoin... so that they can

pay for all these worthless gadgets. 

more rumour mill crap.
if only the OP wasnt racist and actually done some investigation rather then opinion making he would realise something..

nodes and pools:
china only have 150 nodes. thus china doesnt control the blockchain..
if china done anything dodgy the other 5000 nodes of the world would orphan it. meaning no pay day for "china"

exchanges:
hardly anyone uses the chinese exchanges and most trades are bot trades
by highlighting chinese exchanges your actually making sheep follow china. thus making them appear to have more power by shouting they have power.

also the hashpower. sorry but china is a country. not a person. i guarantee if america had lots of pools the only debate we would see from the OP was that america was diverse and not one company but separate entities in different states. rather than the america is one entity that owns bitcoin.

its also worth noting the OP has not made other considerations such as american companies owning parts of the hashpower that the OP is classing as "chinese". or that the chinese pools actually have pool servers outside of china so that if any internet/IP bans happened within china it would still function. meaning that the "chinese" pools are not exactly reliant on china.

but hey, if its not the good old U.S of A, put on a racist hate and point your finger at them and blame them for why america is not a power house

Your statment that China controls bitcoin is just a load of crap,  and even if that was true bitcoin is open source software, go check the code, it works.   

I believe China may have some influence to a degree but not outright domination and control as many people all over the world are discovering bitcoin ad the more people use it all over the world the more it will evenly spread ut but of course just from the sheer numbers of those who own it in China and mine, it is relevant to say they own a big stash of it for certain that is.

I`m not a bitcoin advocate and i don`t know who are the bitcoin "advocates".

I know that all the talking about decentralization is a lie and bitcoin can`t be 100% decentalized.

If btc price does up,i`m happy and i don`t care about the China control.

I know China will manipulate the price to their advantage, just as I know Power Corrupts and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
They may raise its price to even more extreme heights or they may bring it crashing down in other regions of the world to destroy what they consider to be an enemy's economy.
Art of War is always their underlying motive, to not recognize this , is to be manipulated by it.  
Study their history , little has changed.

 

Actually No difference, in what I said. I said they control BTC changes since they run over 51% mining, they blocked the XT for personal reasons.
The reason being their internet infrastructure could not support the higher block sizes and they would lose dominance.
They refused , to make sure they kept their dominance , which they have.
It was a decision made purely out of Self-motivation , not improvement to the coin's network which is why the underlying problem is worsening.
http://www.ibtimes.com/bitcoins-big-problem-transaction-delays-renew-blockchain-debate-2330143



Think back to that topic Theymos created a few weeks ago , discussing hybrid ways to mine BTC,
it was apparent he is thinking about how to remove Chinese dominance thru changes to the code with Proof of Stake added.
Disrupting a 51% dominance was obviously his motive to anyone paying attention.
  

That is a good point, and it would be a problem if it were Russia or the US or Europe.
One country controlling a coin completely is no different from Fiat.
However the reality is the country is China, it is still a problem.


That is where our train of thought varies, only PoW coins can be completely controlled by 51% attacks.
Reason: The Miners selling their coins do not lose their % of control when they sell their coins.
Any Proof of Stake, or Hybrid PoS/PoW , this is not the case when you sell your coin you give up mining % , you do not keep the same control.
Which is why Theymos was looking at adding PoS to his design theory of BTC.


That is a fair idea, wait until they actually commit the act.
However problem with it , is the longer people wait to make a decision the stronger China's Control of BTC becomes.
People should look at the issue and make a decision early on, and then make preparations for it.
Whether they chose to be a slave for China (for the meager scraps from their table) or whether they decide to chose another coin and fight to make it the successor to BTC, without the country controlled centralization.



When Ghash.io passed the 51% everyone was terrified.
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/184427-one-bitcoin-group-now-controls-51-of-total-mining-power-threatening-entire-currencys-safety
But now that the Country of China has done it , no one is concerned.  

Actually Proof of Stake has a protection system built in,
with ASICS I can keep the same mining % the entire time,
with PoS, the mining % is always in Flux since the act of staking makes those coin inert for a specific amount of time.  

 

You don't know the future. It is true that bitcoin raised from basically worthless piece of code to $1000 worth token during its first 4 years.
But do you honestly think current price is final? And from now we will be forever stuck with price range of $650-$750?

http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/12/10/will-bitcoin-price-reach-1-million-us-dollars/

LOL,

Since you whine about China making you rich , it is apparent you missed that early ride.
That boat has sailed before most even heard of BTC.
Enjoy your Ride on Bitantic.  

 

I don't see how China refused Bitcoin.
They refused to fork it off into a NEW COIN with new moderators etc.
BIG DIFFERENCE.

Google --> Bitcoin XT bitcointalk

For example..
https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3hhbhs/looks_like_all_xt_post_will_be_moderated_from_now/

Looks like all XT post will be moderated from now on bitcointalk. (self.bitcoinxt)

submitted 1 year ago by LagaffeGaston


Source: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12173575

Right away i see mention of "graphics". EDIT = oops i am blind he said "graphs" 
Clearly this was not an attempt to modify the existing Bitcoin but to make a new version from the old.
Which yeah i see it got resistance all over Crypto.. i don't blame them.
I have no firm stance on how to address that issue though.

So i have to challenge the assertion that China has "refused" to make changes before.
Seems me to MOST people refused such as Theymos on Reddit.. not just the Chinese.

I also like guys comment earlier.. they are actually in fact securing the block chain etc
and they are getting the rewards for doing so.. if you want to challenge that dominance then go for it.

I made many good points that were ignored LOL
Such as ?
Well would we be bitching if Russia or the USA was dominating mining ?
This relates to the reputation of China.. yeah i get it (it's obviously not good)
Do i think they would like to regulate it ? YES ..just as much as the USA wants to.
So the rumor is they are trying ? well guess what ? All major countries are trying.

NOTE:
Canada was the first major country in 2013 to implement tax guidelines.
You have to claim your crypto currency earnings according to Revenue Canada law.

Then we have to think about well, can the major govts actually control it.
I think in away yes and in a way no.
They can in fact neuter it by being there causing problems where ever there is a link to FIAT.
If that has major disruption then yeah they can really hurt Bitcoin badly.
The value is *MOSTLY* because BTC can be if desired cashed out to FIAT.
FIAT can not be dumped any time soon so it makes perfect sense to have a need and desire to swap them back & forth.
The concept of having no FIAT links to Bitcoin is going to be silly bullshit for a long loooong time to come.

@kiklo
I am largely arguing with you here but you said earlier what the point to your topic is..
AND THAT I DO AGREE WITH !
No harm in putting it out there and looking at all angles.

And i was not asking which Altcoin you "like"   ..i think you know that  
I was pointing out how all the Altcoins are far worse for this type of threat etc.

Potentially yeah i think China could in fact do some bad damage to Bitcoin with their own regulations.
But do they really want to knowing it would likely harm BTC ?
Honestly if they were out to stamp out BTC in their own country i think that would have been obvious long ago.. after all BTC is roughly 7 years old now people.

I have no problem with this topic and we may have to revisit this matter if China gets out of hand.
But are we seeing credible news something bad is in the works ? ..I'm not so sure about that.

PS:
Check out the "scam" topic on Cointelegraph.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/how-to-scam-the-bitcoin-community-for-only-04-btc-via-a-press-release-on-ct-1670392
I don't see any of these news sites as legit..
Be extra cautious taking anything they say as concrete fact.

Bottom line is.. this is how Bitcoin works.
It is always going to be subjected to a 51% majority doing things regardless of whom.
So how do we address this core problem then ? I have no damn idea  

Disclaimer:
I have never tried to say i know a lot about Bitcoin.
I am just throwing in some random opinion on all this.

Yes, let's compare. Anyone who put $10,000 into bitcoin before 2013 now has bitcoin in value exceeding the entire market cap of your baby crap coin.

When you've amassed that much increase in value, you can come back to taunt me. I'll even congratulate you (as if).

Until that day, good day to you, sir!

LOL,  

Keep thinking they will make you rich, but their motives are different than that.
When you finally see the truth, recognize you were informed of it here.

Since you finally figured out my favorite coin,
let's compare

BTC , Nov 2013 , hit ~$1275 US Dollars Peak , so even at $700 , some are still down ~half  3 years later
Seems like a loser to me

ZEIT
Hit our low of ~$20,000 Marketcap in August 2014,
Now in Nov 2016, our Marketcap is between $220,000 & $500,000 Marketcap
You would have made 11X your investment even on the low side, or a MAX of 25X your investment on the high side.

Plus when someone sells their ZEIT , they are selling their future mining capacity away, unlike when the Chinese sell their BTC and still keep control of the network , because the value of their coin is in their ASICS, the value of ZEIT is in the Coin itself.

I'll stick with my 11X profits in 2 years of a truly decentralized coin and you can keep your ½ Losses in 3 years with your Centralized one.  

 

OK then - guess we're done here.

Meanwhile, the entire market cap of your beloved ZEIT (that's what you're thinking is better than Bitcoin, right?) can scarcely buy your average house 'round these parts.

Hmm ,
I guess since ridicule is your weapon of choice,
I will respond in kind.  

I ridicule you for being China's Bitch.
I ridicule you for being the Greater Fool.
I ridicule you for being too stupid to realize that your BTCUnlimited will fail unless China agrees.
I ridicule you for ignoring the 51% attack security issue of a Compromised Coin.
I ridicule you for being that Guy standing there clueless like a Fool , when China does show you that you are their Bitch.  

 

ZeroHedge is very likely a sophisticated Kremlin troll site...
It's too good and too plugged in to be some random East European dudes...
And a hyper-anti-American "business" site... makes about as much sense as a white supremacist rap music site.

$10 billion is a rounding error for a major government...
All of whom are putting the finishing touches on digital legal tender (see UK and Canada).

The Bitcoin network is so dysfunctional and it's investors are so skittish...
That rejecting the possibility of a government black hat operation versus BTC is crazy.

Ya man...
China killed 50 million of it's own people in the 20th century... but touching Bitcoin crosses the line.

No, I don't attack you. I ridicule your infantile flights of fancy.


'China' (as if it is some monolithic entity) may find a way to affect Bitcoin. As of yet, all China has done to it is host the largest exchanges, and supply the hash power that secures it.

I ridicule because you seem to think that some fictional character writes for ZeroHedge.

I ridicule because the ZeroHedge article that started your silly rant implies Bloomberg is the source of the news, but Bloomberg has not published any article claiming so.

I ridicule you for going 'chicken little'.

If China gets nefarious at some time in the future, that might be something to discuss. Until then, you sound like a frightened little girl.