Pretty useless answers here.
Escrow can not be used for single merchant websites, generate frictions for shopper and merchant.
Feedbacks and reviews of merchants are useless for new businesses, can be faked.
Using Paypal / CC is the opposite of this thread, since we seek to promote Bitcoin and keep both parties (Buyers/sellers) safe.
Thank's for your participation anyway.
Topic locked.
Topic: Bitcoin and Fraud (Read 2921 times)
Assuming a merchant accept Bitcoin,
You as a shopper, place an order, and that merchant did not deliver, or sent to the wrong address, or sent a fake product.
You can not reverse the payment, you can get your bitcoins back, and the only thing you can do it leave a negative feedback.
Of course, there are many other scenarios, like phishing websites, fake websites, selective scams, and so on
What are your thoughts and ideas to prevent these scams.
You as a shopper, place an order, and that merchant did not deliver, or sent to the wrong address, or sent a fake product.
You can not reverse the payment, you can get your bitcoins back, and the only thing you can do it leave a negative feedback.
Of course, there are many other scenarios, like phishing websites, fake websites, selective scams, and so on
What are your thoughts and ideas to prevent these scams.
You should know who the merchant is and trust the website/person enough to trade with them in bitcoins. It's the same case with ebay where people have just created/bought fake accounts with a lot of feedback and the payments have been reversed or the item was damaged. It is better to use a middle man who can hold the payment and release it when the product has been delivered but here lies the problem if the buyer is a scammer and lies about not receiving the product/receiving a damaged product.
When big websites like Amazon can be fooled by customers, we too can be cheated. Buying something from a physical store using bitcoins is the best way to avoid such scams.
Using Escrow Service can be a good way to prevent scams from untrusted sellers.
For trusted sellers, I don't think you will face such problem ever.
By the way, Consumer Court is always there. Suppose, you made payment through cards/cash, then too transaction is reversible only when company wishes so. Similarly, in case of Bitcoin if company wishes, it can issue you refund. No matter whether transaction is reversible or not.
For trusted sellers, I don't think you will face such problem ever.
By the way, Consumer Court is always there. Suppose, you made payment through cards/cash, then too transaction is reversible only when company wishes so. Similarly, in case of Bitcoin if company wishes, it can issue you refund. No matter whether transaction is reversible or not.
This problem is somehow solved by multisig address, or even having an escrow. Product will go to escrow and escrow deliver the product to the buyer. Then after escrow received the product, escrow and buy will then unlock the fund and pay the seller. This is the best setup to avoid scam or fraud when buying online.
You must study and search for a legit site first before spending your bitcoin over there.Mostly its the buyers fault why they are being scammed by sites or other peoples too their trust too much depending on the feedback which may be fake
Sometimes scenario is a small picture and not of sites, for example I see an ad here in currency exchange thread where I see my need being fulfilled then how do I know if the guy providing that service is legit ? And on asking for escrow, the seller or exchanger refuses.In many cases I have seen that who refuse escrow are scammers but still we can't call someone a scammer just because they don't trust a third party.
Using escrow is the best way I know to avoid the scam and be safe in the deal. It works almost 90% while dealing online, especially with strangers. There are best escrows with us on bitcointalk and I will always keep recommending newbies (and senior members too) to go with escrow because the security assurance is worth more than escrow fees.
If I had to use escrow every time I used my credit card to buy something online I would cut them in half and throw them away. Credit cards would be useless for me then.
I use credit cards with fraud protection for those items.
I use credit cards with fraud protection for those items.
Kind of contradicting yourself there
No contradiction at all. Bitcoin escrow is too slow when all I want to do is order a pair of Levi 501s. I log on, make the order, enter my CC info and place the order. 5 minutes involvement tops. The CC company keeps me safe because I signed a contract with them that guarantees my safety wherever I shop (plus the 20 other benefits I get like flyer miles). That's not escrow. That's a legally binding contract that I can sue over.
Setting up an involved escrow is too much work for a pair of jeans. The bitcoin escrow services I've used in the past were more expensive than the 2% merchants get charged per transaction. I used to trust JohnTheDong's escrow but I don't know if I trust any others. Searching for an escrow that I trust isn't worth the time for me. If I do find an escrow person that I use regularly they can still rip me off eventually (that's happened many times before). Its just not worth it for me, you're mileage may differ.
i think you missed the point of an escrow, otherwise why they exist, just use an escrow with undoubtedly merchants, if amazon were to accept bitcoin you would have no problem with them, but with private man selling stuff, i would use an escrow, any other serious merchants with his website will not scam you that would be stupid from him, would cost him customers
No, you missed the whole point of this conversation.
Escrow can be used in a platform where sellers and buyers can do business, or sellers can sell their products, not the case for single merchant websites.
i think you missed the point of an escrow, otherwise why they exist, just use an escrow with undoubtedly merchants, if amazon were to accept bitcoin you would have no problem with them, but with private man selling stuff, i would use an escrow, any other serious merchants with his website will not scam you that would be stupid from him, would cost him customers
Using Escrow Service can be a good way to prevent scams from untrusted sellers.
For trusted sellers, I don't think you will face such problem ever.
By the way, Consumer Court is always there. Suppose, you made payment through cards/cash, then too transaction is reversible only when company wishes so. Similarly, in case of Bitcoin if company wishes, it can issue you refund. No matter whether transaction is reversible or not.
For trusted sellers, I don't think you will face such problem ever.
By the way, Consumer Court is always there. Suppose, you made payment through cards/cash, then too transaction is reversible only when company wishes so. Similarly, in case of Bitcoin if company wishes, it can issue you refund. No matter whether transaction is reversible or not.
This is the 5th time I say it.
A Seller who will accept payments on his online store will not use Escrow.
And using reputables sellers like amazon, or using Paypal - CC is not helping Bitcoin, and is not helping new businesses.
Using Escrow Service can be a good way to prevent scams from untrusted sellers.
For trusted sellers, I don't think you will face such problem ever.
By the way, Consumer Court is always there. Suppose, you made payment through cards/cash, then too transaction is reversible only when company wishes so. Similarly, in case of Bitcoin if company wishes, it can issue you refund. No matter whether transaction is reversible or not.
For trusted sellers, I don't think you will face such problem ever.
By the way, Consumer Court is always there. Suppose, you made payment through cards/cash, then too transaction is reversible only when company wishes so. Similarly, in case of Bitcoin if company wishes, it can issue you refund. No matter whether transaction is reversible or not.
What are your thoughts and ideas to prevent these scams.
Either do your own due diligence (stick with established, well rated merchants) or use a credit card when shopping somewhere "less than reputable".What are your thoughts and ideas to prevent these scams.
Either do your own due diligence (stick with established, well rated merchants) or use a credit card when shopping somewhere "less than reputable".
Yeah well the purpose of my question is about promoting Bitcoin for merchants.
Thank you anyway for your though
Anybody else ?
Well the way to promote it to merchants is easy.... concentrate on these 11 drawbacks on using a credit card :
https://www.consumerprotect.com/11-types-of-credit-card-fraud/
Bitcoin does eliminate some of these fraudulent activities and are a much better payment option than Credit cards.
Assuming a merchant accept Bitcoin,
You as a shopper, place an order, and that merchant did not deliver, or sent to the wrong address, or sent a fake product.
You can not reverse the payment, you can get your bitcoins back, and the only thing you can do it leave a negative feedback.
Of course, there are many other scenarios, like phishing websites, fake websites, selective scams, and so on
What are your thoughts and ideas to prevent these scams.
You as a shopper, place an order, and that merchant did not deliver, or sent to the wrong address, or sent a fake product.
You can not reverse the payment, you can get your bitcoins back, and the only thing you can do it leave a negative feedback.
Of course, there are many other scenarios, like phishing websites, fake websites, selective scams, and so on
What are your thoughts and ideas to prevent these scams.
Well to dodge this kind of scams is very hard because this kind of things happens to any us users. But to solve this kind of stuff is just to be wise on what you will decide and search about the information about the website that you will shop, and don't trust people in the internet easily because they can be that wise to scam you
.. get the info about the website and you won't be scam, 
This would depend on the merchants decision if he would tend or plan to give you a refund or not since we do know bitcoin transactions arent irreversible and if you bought from a certain merchant and do accept the thing which you didnt expect then this would be a hard thing thats why its really important to always search for the legitimacy of such merchant before planning on making any bitcoin transactions.
Yes op is right, Its very easy to cheat customers if we pay via bitcoin. In my opinion use bitcoin as online payment method if you are sure that merchant can be trusted. In my opinion , you can use bitcoin as payment method if you want to buy any branded product. Because branded shops wont cheat their customers. If anything like cheating happens it will affect the brand name. So definitely the merchants will be carefull regarding that.
You must study and search for a legit site first before spending your bitcoin over there.Mostly its the buyers fault why they are being scammed by sites or other peoples too their trust too much depending on the feedback which may be fake
Fraud regarding Bitcoins can be regulated or prevented to some extent. Fraudulent activities can never be stopped but somewhat prevented.
Like, Regarding investing you Bitcoins, becoming knowledgeable about it, where you are putting your money, who is taking the money etc., will help you avoid frauds, but not always though. And as the transaction are non traceable, the frauds are increasing regarding BTC, which is why many of my friends are not interested, after deeply researching on it, mostly they fear of getting conned.
Like, Regarding investing you Bitcoins, becoming knowledgeable about it, where you are putting your money, who is taking the money etc., will help you avoid frauds, but not always though. And as the transaction are non traceable, the frauds are increasing regarding BTC, which is why many of my friends are not interested, after deeply researching on it, mostly they fear of getting conned.
Assuming a merchant accept Bitcoin,
You as a shopper, place an order, and that merchant did not deliver, or sent to the wrong address, or sent a fake product.
You can not reverse the payment, you can get your bitcoins back, and the only thing you can do it leave a negative feedback.
Of course, there are many other scenarios, like phishing websites, fake websites, selective scams, and so on
What are your thoughts and ideas to prevent these scams.
There will always be people who stumbles upon a fraud. However as with all payments made to persons, do your reasearch. You as a shopper, place an order, and that merchant did not deliver, or sent to the wrong address, or sent a fake product.
You can not reverse the payment, you can get your bitcoins back, and the only thing you can do it leave a negative feedback.
Of course, there are many other scenarios, like phishing websites, fake websites, selective scams, and so on
What are your thoughts and ideas to prevent these scams.
Also, I'm sure there will come more and more companys who buys for you that meaning a 3rd party who makes your purchase (you pay a small fee for them doing so) but your initial payment is safed so if it's a scam it's the 3rd party that will lose on it, not you, well as long as the 3rd party is trusted of course.
Best Regards,
Does Fiat guarantee that there will be no scams whatsoever. By using a credit card can you be sure that your data is safe and your data won't be comprised. There is no guarantee in any currency, all one can do is do through research and then only proceed to buy. One way is to first see their past reputation. Have they made similar kind of deals. And you really need to be choosy, scams are possible when people fall for high discounts, newbies. Offering super deals. You should ask for vouches or ask people who have traded with them to make sure you get it right.
when the payment system has charge back it means any random person on the internet with complete anonymity can use any payment method and charge it back.
But it doesn't. You can't make a PayPal account with a pseudonym, there are strict identity checks.
If I had to use escrow every time I used my credit card to buy something online I would cut them in half and throw them away. Credit cards would be useless for me then.
I use credit cards with fraud protection for those items.
I use credit cards with fraud protection for those items.
Kind of contradicting yourself there
Jump to: