the level of trolling and sockpuppetry at zh is mind boggling. part of the btc hate is political agenda, part is professional astroturf, part is dunning-kruger snark, part is talking the gold book, part is old man luddism.
allowing zh too much influence on you thought process is harmful to your wallet. in the long run that will probably change.
Shtf in some sense in the US in1907, 1933, 1971. I seriously doubt USD,EUR,JPY,RMB exist as we know them today, come 2018.
By design BTC is electronic gold. Far safer and more portable than metal. The implementation has proven remarkably adequate to the vision so far.
Topic: Bitcoin and Gold - page 2. (Read 2759 times)
Welcome to bitcointalk OROBTC. I've always enjoyed reading your comments are Zerohedge.
I believe gold and bitcoin are compliments, and a diversified portfolio should contain both. Gold has thousands of years of history as money, while bitcoin has transactional properties that make it apt for the information age. I expect bitcoin to perform much better % wise over the coming years, but I recognize that it may have more risk to the downside too.
I believe most skeptics at Zerohedge simply haven't taken enough time to really learn what bitcoin is due to some sort of mental obstinance (a mental obstinance I see time and time again when it comes to bitcoin).
I believe gold and bitcoin are compliments, and a diversified portfolio should contain both. Gold has thousands of years of history as money, while bitcoin has transactional properties that make it apt for the information age. I expect bitcoin to perform much better % wise over the coming years, but I recognize that it may have more risk to the downside too.
I believe most skeptics at Zerohedge simply haven't taken enough time to really learn what bitcoin is due to some sort of mental obstinance (a mental obstinance I see time and time again when it comes to bitcoin).
orobtc: yes lots of btcers hold PMs. read gold collapsing bitcoin up thread
ken: wrt phys vs. paper its not just a SHTF event; the USD is valid for "ALL debts public and private". In a gold deflation event you'll either get your USD equivalent or get a chapter 11 headline. if you get usd I bet it will be quite hard due to various shenanigans to ACTUALLY then buy an equiv amount of phys.
ken: wrt phys vs. paper its not just a SHTF event; the USD is valid for "ALL debts public and private". In a gold deflation event you'll either get your USD equivalent or get a chapter 11 headline. if you get usd I bet it will be quite hard due to various shenanigans to ACTUALLY then buy an equiv amount of phys.
Im talking about gold and silver here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/price-of-gold-manipulation-421484
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/price-of-gold-manipulation-421484
I've worked in the gold and silver business for years. I've had the privilege of seeing exactly how people felt about precious metals and why they were buying them. I got to feel the ups and downs in the physical market and compare them to the paper market. Btw...I bought and sold on a fairly large scale.
I can tell you that a LARGE number of my customers were buying gold and silver in preparation for chaos and a US dollar collapse. I believe them too because so far history has shown that to be the case. I assumed that when gold and silver came down, I would have the opportunity to buy a lot of the gold and silver back that I had sold. That wasn't the case. Largely, people didn't liquidate their physical holdings. It wasn't just my business either. It was industry wide.
During that time, I also saw an enormous detachment from the physical and paper world (I can't recall the exact dates right now). Gold and silver were seemingly getting crushed in the paper market but the physical demand was crazy. If I could have gotten my hands on more silver at the time I could have sold it all. It simply wasn't to be found. Why? If the paper market is getting crushed the physical should follow. At least that's the way it generally worked before. How could the physical be so hard to find if the paper market is in a sell off?
So, I actually have a point. Gold and silver have "forces" keeping it down. It is not beneficial for some people if gold goes too high.
That being said...it won't stay down forever. I would wait to get in until it breaks out of it's current range (especially silver).
I can tell you that a LARGE number of my customers were buying gold and silver in preparation for chaos and a US dollar collapse. I believe them too because so far history has shown that to be the case. I assumed that when gold and silver came down, I would have the opportunity to buy a lot of the gold and silver back that I had sold. That wasn't the case. Largely, people didn't liquidate their physical holdings. It wasn't just my business either. It was industry wide.
During that time, I also saw an enormous detachment from the physical and paper world (I can't recall the exact dates right now). Gold and silver were seemingly getting crushed in the paper market but the physical demand was crazy. If I could have gotten my hands on more silver at the time I could have sold it all. It simply wasn't to be found. Why? If the paper market is getting crushed the physical should follow. At least that's the way it generally worked before. How could the physical be so hard to find if the paper market is in a sell off?
So, I actually have a point. Gold and silver have "forces" keeping it down. It is not beneficial for some people if gold goes too high.
That being said...it won't stay down forever. I would wait to get in until it breaks out of it's current range (especially silver).
Hey,
I support gold, BTC, and other real-world useful commodities.
Compared with conventional commodities, BTC is extemely complex. It really doesn't fit under the category of a commodity or a currency. It's not something that most people can learn about in an evening; especially if they don't have some previous understanding about cryptography or data encryption in general.
Just to clarify, Bitcoin isn't a ponzi scheme. People who reach the conclusion that it's a ponzi are grasping at straws. It's very similar to the invention of the internet; people make generalizations about things that they don't understand. The world was flat once, etc...
Bitcoin is a protocol, the code was invented and released as an open-source project. It's been tested against attack for the last 5 years with no holes discovered (being open-source gives attackers and developers access to the code equally.) The protocol is riding on the back of a global P2P network with more processing power than 300 times that of the top 500 most powerful super computers in the world combined. The encryption method is SHA-256; if it's ever broken, the last thing anybody would be worried about is BTC. SHA-2 is used to secure things like nuclear launch codes, military secrets, etc... There are much bigger fish in those waters than just a few Bitcoins.
All of the recent security issues aren't protocol related; they are either custom wallet implementation related, internal theft of BTC that was given to a person or business in trust that they will be returned upon request, or negligence of the owner to secure them properly (You wouldn't store a gold bar on the front seat of your car). If you don't take precautions you're susceptible to people stealing your stuff. (BTC is much more secure than gold when care is taken to secure it. Nobody can claim it by force without your involvement where gold can be stolen or appropriated.)
Bitcoin isn't a currency; it's a decentralized distributed autonomous public ledger of accounting. It's a wealth and ownership trading platform that has uses far exceeding the limitations of currency or commodity.
Bitcoin isn't a doomsday hedge; it doesn't rely on economies collapsing or on replacing existing currencies to appreciate in value. Once the infrastructure is further developed it will become more user friendly, more intuitive, and it will be utilized by many different avenues outside of the financial sector. Bitcoin is an emerging technology that will be built on and developed over time; the world will be moved and it will be epic.
I support gold, BTC, and other real-world useful commodities.
Compared with conventional commodities, BTC is extemely complex. It really doesn't fit under the category of a commodity or a currency. It's not something that most people can learn about in an evening; especially if they don't have some previous understanding about cryptography or data encryption in general.
Just to clarify, Bitcoin isn't a ponzi scheme. People who reach the conclusion that it's a ponzi are grasping at straws. It's very similar to the invention of the internet; people make generalizations about things that they don't understand. The world was flat once, etc...
Bitcoin is a protocol, the code was invented and released as an open-source project. It's been tested against attack for the last 5 years with no holes discovered (being open-source gives attackers and developers access to the code equally.) The protocol is riding on the back of a global P2P network with more processing power than 300 times that of the top 500 most powerful super computers in the world combined. The encryption method is SHA-256; if it's ever broken, the last thing anybody would be worried about is BTC. SHA-2 is used to secure things like nuclear launch codes, military secrets, etc... There are much bigger fish in those waters than just a few Bitcoins.
All of the recent security issues aren't protocol related; they are either custom wallet implementation related, internal theft of BTC that was given to a person or business in trust that they will be returned upon request, or negligence of the owner to secure them properly (You wouldn't store a gold bar on the front seat of your car). If you don't take precautions you're susceptible to people stealing your stuff. (BTC is much more secure than gold when care is taken to secure it. Nobody can claim it by force without your involvement where gold can be stolen or appropriated.)
Bitcoin isn't a currency; it's a decentralized distributed autonomous public ledger of accounting. It's a wealth and ownership trading platform that has uses far exceeding the limitations of currency or commodity.
Bitcoin isn't a doomsday hedge; it doesn't rely on economies collapsing or on replacing existing currencies to appreciate in value. Once the infrastructure is further developed it will become more user friendly, more intuitive, and it will be utilized by many different avenues outside of the financial sector. Bitcoin is an emerging technology that will be built on and developed over time; the world will be moved and it will be epic.
When you say "not 'paper gold'", do you mean gold commodity ETFs like IAU and GLD? Why the distinction?
I own some IAU, and am planning to buy more, but I wouldn't think of buying real gold and storing it in my house. The ETF seems safer and more convenient. I don't believe end-of-civilization arguments in which some people hype the benefits of physical gold in hand.
I've been paying attention to bitcoin for years, but only just now bought my first small amount. I think gold and bitcoin have some similarities, but greater differences.
I own some IAU, and am planning to buy more, but I wouldn't think of buying real gold and storing it in my house. The ETF seems safer and more convenient. I don't believe end-of-civilization arguments in which some people hype the benefits of physical gold in hand.
I've been paying attention to bitcoin for years, but only just now bought my first small amount. I think gold and bitcoin have some similarities, but greater differences.
...
About the only other place I hang out at more than here is zerohedge.com, a well known and influential financial website (my handle over there is "DoChenRollingBearing"). It is, of course, quite possible that Zero Hedge may be discussed here all the time here, but I (a newb) have not seen this yet so I thought I would ask for bitcointalk discussion of gold and BTC.
ZH is a fairly libertarian yet suspicious kind of place, but a great playground maybe the best! One thing I do not understand is the relative hostility to Bitcoin there at ZH. I am in the camp that BTC and gold complement each other nicely, gold for insurance (and maybe a big "FOFOA" style pop (to "$55,000" / oz -- a discussion for "ANOTHER" day...)) and BTC for certain transactional and capital movement advantages (and the possibility of a big price pop somewhere down the line).
Disclosure: I love gold!
There are quite a few who like both BTC and gold there, but a rather high number who like gold, but hate BTC (eg, calling it a "ponzi", etc.). I see the logic of some who have not looked much at BTC, but other wise am kind of baffled that Bitcoin has not gotten a better reception at ZH.
So, let me turn this around...:
What are the views of many of you here at BTCTalk about gold? Do you own it (the real thing, not "paper gold")? Where do some you stand re owning gold?
About the only other place I hang out at more than here is zerohedge.com, a well known and influential financial website (my handle over there is "DoChenRollingBearing"). It is, of course, quite possible that Zero Hedge may be discussed here all the time here, but I (a newb) have not seen this yet so I thought I would ask for bitcointalk discussion of gold and BTC.
ZH is a fairly libertarian yet suspicious kind of place, but a great playground maybe the best! One thing I do not understand is the relative hostility to Bitcoin there at ZH. I am in the camp that BTC and gold complement each other nicely, gold for insurance (and maybe a big "FOFOA" style pop (to "$55,000" / oz -- a discussion for "ANOTHER" day...)) and BTC for certain transactional and capital movement advantages (and the possibility of a big price pop somewhere down the line).
Disclosure: I love gold!
There are quite a few who like both BTC and gold there, but a rather high number who like gold, but hate BTC (eg, calling it a "ponzi", etc.). I see the logic of some who have not looked much at BTC, but other wise am kind of baffled that Bitcoin has not gotten a better reception at ZH.
So, let me turn this around...:
What are the views of many of you here at BTCTalk about gold? Do you own it (the real thing, not "paper gold")? Where do some you stand re owning gold?
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