Topic: Bitcoin and ham radio - page 2. (Read 4567 times)
You'd need about 2kbps to download seven 1MB blocks an hour. That's a lot of bandwidth 24/7/365 on a global HF network. I think the Bitsat project and the use of UHF and SHF for a lot more relative bandwidth is the best solution for a global wireless network - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoins-in-space-334701
there has existed for somehing like 35 years an analogue modem for 27MHZ, 142MHZ licenced and unlicensed. It's just a little PCB you solder to your mike / speaker points. There are multiple private 24/7 uplinks around the world. so you can mail and surf as you would normally, but slow. Around 2K baud, So try to sync your block chain on that.
As a post apocalyptic internet it's fine.
As a post apocalyptic internet it's fine.
This sounds really interesting. Any chance on a link to more info?
Here you go, it's called a TNC: http://www.coolcircuit.com/gadgets/category/ham-radio/ There are 100+ pages about them.
Apparently there are also micro processor versions now...
BTW there are also free HAM satellite repeters for voice and data: http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/index.php
So, it's funny this thread came up today because I was just thinking about HAM radio applications for bitcoin. Transactions over the radio wouldn't be super-feasible using voice modes (but perhaps using digital modes). They need not be encrypted, just signed. AFAIK, sending a cryptographically signed message for authentication should be fine since the data is in the clear. Here's an extensive write-up on the subject:
http://blog.rietta.com/2009/08/authentication-without-encryption-for.html
HAMs could get a vanity bitcoin address with their callsign, and use that to receive donations (like for rare DX), sell products, contribute anonymously to radio clubs/nets, participate in contests where rewards are sent via bitcoin, etc. In fact, I'm generating one for my callsign right now (sold all my video cards, so it's SLOOWWWW - will take 2 hours).
If I manage to get my radio going (HF), I'll post in here, and if another HAM is interested I'd love to send some µBTC to them after a radio negotiation. The HAM community is VERY technical, and has a sort of libertarian streak at times, so they should welcome BTC IMHO.
http://blog.rietta.com/2009/08/authentication-without-encryption-for.html
Quote
WHAT DOES PART 97 SAY?
Section 97.113 (4) "...messages in codes or ciphers intended to obscure the meaning thereof, except as otherwise provided herein..."
Based on the above quote, we can use any method at our disposal to provide for secure authentication which does not obscure the meaning of communications.
Section 97.113 (4) "...messages in codes or ciphers intended to obscure the meaning thereof, except as otherwise provided herein..."
Based on the above quote, we can use any method at our disposal to provide for secure authentication which does not obscure the meaning of communications.
HAMs could get a vanity bitcoin address with their callsign, and use that to receive donations (like for rare DX), sell products, contribute anonymously to radio clubs/nets, participate in contests where rewards are sent via bitcoin, etc. In fact, I'm generating one for my callsign right now (sold all my video cards, so it's SLOOWWWW - will take 2 hours).
If I manage to get my radio going (HF), I'll post in here, and if another HAM is interested I'd love to send some µBTC to them after a radio negotiation. The HAM community is VERY technical, and has a sort of libertarian streak at times, so they should welcome BTC IMHO.
I think it would be great to try to get the HAM community involved, and it didn't dawn on me about the libertarian streak, but I bet you are right.
I do believe that it is for all intents and purposes pretty hopeless to do anything like P2P Bitcoin stuff over radio. Most computer folks will argue that the system is not to bloated as long as 10GB data bandwidths still works...in theory. There might be some room for thin clients and possibly for close geography links (like say a couple hundred meters across the boarder to a free country such as Ecuador) but after thinking about it a bit, I've concluded that it's not the best hope if/when free communications between individuals and labeled a terrorist act and such.
Although I've not studied the subject in depth I bet you are wrong in the conjecture of the meaning of Section 97.113. Both in theory, and more importantly, in practice. Thanks to some incredible work by some of our cypherpunk forefathers there was a gaping hole blown in the Internet part of the spectrum but I fully expect that to be patched up at some point and for our leaderships to be more careful going forward so that that does not happen again.
So, it's funny this thread came up today because I was just thinking about HAM radio applications for bitcoin. Transactions over the radio wouldn't be super-feasible using voice modes (but perhaps using digital modes). They need not be encrypted, just signed. AFAIK, sending a cryptographically signed message for authentication should be fine since the data is in the clear. Here's an extensive write-up on the subject:
http://blog.rietta.com/2009/08/authentication-without-encryption-for.html
HAMs could get a vanity bitcoin address with their callsign, and use that to receive donations (like for rare DX), sell products, contribute anonymously to radio clubs/nets, participate in contests where rewards are sent via bitcoin, etc. In fact, I'm generating one for my callsign right now (sold all my video cards, so it's SLOOWWWW - will take 2 hours).
If I manage to get my radio going (HF), I'll post in here, and if another HAM is interested I'd love to send some µBTC to them after a radio negotiation. The HAM community is VERY technical, and has a sort of libertarian streak at times, so they should welcome BTC IMHO.
http://blog.rietta.com/2009/08/authentication-without-encryption-for.html
Quote
WHAT DOES PART 97 SAY?
Section 97.113 (4) "...messages in codes or ciphers intended to obscure the meaning thereof, except as otherwise provided herein..."
Based on the above quote, we can use any method at our disposal to provide for secure authentication which does not obscure the meaning of communications.
Section 97.113 (4) "...messages in codes or ciphers intended to obscure the meaning thereof, except as otherwise provided herein..."
Based on the above quote, we can use any method at our disposal to provide for secure authentication which does not obscure the meaning of communications.
HAMs could get a vanity bitcoin address with their callsign, and use that to receive donations (like for rare DX), sell products, contribute anonymously to radio clubs/nets, participate in contests where rewards are sent via bitcoin, etc. In fact, I'm generating one for my callsign right now (sold all my video cards, so it's SLOOWWWW - will take 2 hours).
If I manage to get my radio going (HF), I'll post in here, and if another HAM is interested I'd love to send some µBTC to them after a radio negotiation. The HAM community is VERY technical, and has a sort of libertarian streak at times, so they should welcome BTC IMHO.
regards highly resistent networks and radios...
what you want is something listening all the time and caching messages.... then able to only transmit shortly before moving...
this could be done with bluetooth or wifi but I've never seen it done well (including serval for android)
what you want is something listening all the time and caching messages.... then able to only transmit shortly before moving...
this could be done with bluetooth or wifi but I've never seen it done well (including serval for android)
Yeah but how F*ING long would it take to download the block chain on an hf modem??
there has existed for somehing like 35 years an analogue modem for 27MHZ, 142MHZ licenced and unlicensed. It's just a little PCB you solder to your mike / speaker points. There are multiple private 24/7 uplinks around the world. so you can mail and surf as you would normally, but slow. Around 2K baud, So try to sync your block chain on that.
As a post apocalyptic internet it's fine.
As a post apocalyptic internet it's fine.
This sounds really interesting. Any chance on a link to more info?
there has existed for somehing like 35 years an analogue modem for 27MHZ, 142MHZ licenced and unlicensed. It's just a little PCB you solder to your mike / speaker points. There are multiple private 24/7 uplinks around the world. so you can mail and surf as you would normally, but slow. Around 2K baud, So try to sync your block chain on that.
As a post apocalyptic internet it's fine.
As a post apocalyptic internet it's fine.
Ham radio can be used to receive encrypted messages, so it can be used to send and receive bitcoins over very long distances.
Imagine a scenario in the future where only Brazil has internet as we know it today and allows bitcoin to be used.
We could use ham radio using encrypted communications for bitcoin sweep.
Then again, ham radio communication seems easier to restrict than the internet.
By the way, do you think in such scenario would be possible to use an old fashioned modem to connect with internet in Brazil using ham radio?
Imagine a scenario in the future where only Brazil has internet as we know it today and allows bitcoin to be used.
We could use ham radio using encrypted communications for bitcoin sweep.
Then again, ham radio communication seems easier to restrict than the internet.
By the way, do you think in such scenario would be possible to use an old fashioned modem to connect with internet in Brazil using ham radio?
Being forced to radio sort of indicates to me a very severe situation. I would guess that under a situation where free communications were severely restricted, any attempt to carry on data conversations would result in a very quick visit from a drone.
About ten years ago I got interested enough in all the funny noises on radio bands and got an RX320 radio then ported some software to my operating system of choice. Someone told me that they were 'computers talking' when I was a kid (70's) and I always wondered what they were saying to one another. I found that there are a lot of modulation types and it is quite possible to receive data from all over the Pacific at least. I went back to work about that time and have yet to get back into the hobby.
My current belief is that while it might be possible to keep any eye on things like spot prices and such, but again, I imagine that any attempt to actually send would be nothing more than a beacon telling the authorities where to find you. Or at least your radio gear.
"HAM" radio is a specific, licensed service with a prohibition on encrypted communications.
I do believe that "high frequency" or "shortwave" radio, which is what you mean, will play a role in human liberty.
I do believe that "high frequency" or "shortwave" radio, which is what you mean, will play a role in human liberty.
Ham radio can be used to receive encrypted messages, so it can be used to send and receive bitcoins over very long distances.
Imagine a scenario in the future where only Brazil has internet as we know it today and allows bitcoin to be used.
We could use ham radio using encrypted communications for bitcoin sweep.
Then again, ham radio communication seems easier to restrict than the internet.
By the way, do you think in such scenario would be possible to use an old fashioned modem to connect with internet in Brazil using ham radio?
Imagine a scenario in the future where only Brazil has internet as we know it today and allows bitcoin to be used.
We could use ham radio using encrypted communications for bitcoin sweep.
Then again, ham radio communication seems easier to restrict than the internet.
By the way, do you think in such scenario would be possible to use an old fashioned modem to connect with internet in Brazil using ham radio?
Jump to: