That does absolutely nothing to address the Hard Problem of consciousness, which since it lacks any logical definition, is free of any falsification. So of course consciousness is immortal before it kinda dies and wasn't created just in time to live, whatever that means, on a gigantic little speck hanging on nothing out in the middle of nowhere, stupendously.
Something about the infinitesimal unlikeliness, so priceless, blah blah blah. Death.
Anyway what's the point of preserving peaches in a jar before throwing the whole jar into a fire? After all, the universe is going to die even more impressively than we will. Maybe I'm jealous.
Here's something; Maybe we're all the same person. Maybe I'm actually a hyperdimensional creature that gets caught up in nets of neurons and I experience each life one at a time, maybe in no particular order in time. Maybe when I die, that consciousness will slip out and cling to a kid from K-Pax that dies from hemorrhaging in his blugerplex* (Bummer.). You're actually me when I'm experiencing you. So maybe saving life is even more doubly pointless, and the important thing is just to be goodly to one another so when I will have had been you my life won't be so bad.
Who the hell knows? I'd have done this whole universe differently given the chance, so I guess that just proves I'm not God, at least in this meat-sack, whatever I/we/He/They are.
Greg Maxwell talks about creativity, but come on. We cure diseases all the time, because diseases feel bad. Aging is no different. Maybe instead of saving lives and reducing pain, we should all just liquidate the planet in radioactive hellfire as a kind of vote of no confidence since human life sucks ass through a straw 9 times out of 10, throughout human history so far, and force whatever created the universe to start over with something hopefully less sadistic. Maybe we should stop beating around the bush and get this whole "dying" thing over with.
The cool thing is we have the technology today to wipe out all life on this planet. We'll probably never have the technology to live forever (You know, since the universe appears to be dying and all.).
*I know, shut up.
Topic: Bitcoin and me (Hal Finney) - page 20. (Read 280256 times)
Sam Harris describing consciousness:
If it’s true that consciousness is being run like software on the brain and can – by virtue of ectoplasm or something else we don’t understand – be dissociated from the brain at death, that would be part of our growing scientific understanding of the world if we discover it…
But there are very good reasons to think it’s not true. We know this from 150 years of neurology where you damage areas of the brain, and faculties are lost… You can cease to recognize faces, you can cease to know the names of animals but you still know the names of tools…
What we’re being asked to consider is that you damage one part of the brain, and something about the mind and subjectivity is lost, you damage another and yet more is lost, [but] you damage the whole thing at death, we can rise off the brain with all our faculties intact, recognizing grandma and speaking English!
The 2 minute video clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juriylw7B0g
If it’s true that consciousness is being run like software on the brain and can – by virtue of ectoplasm or something else we don’t understand – be dissociated from the brain at death, that would be part of our growing scientific understanding of the world if we discover it…
But there are very good reasons to think it’s not true. We know this from 150 years of neurology where you damage areas of the brain, and faculties are lost… You can cease to recognize faces, you can cease to know the names of animals but you still know the names of tools…
What we’re being asked to consider is that you damage one part of the brain, and something about the mind and subjectivity is lost, you damage another and yet more is lost, [but] you damage the whole thing at death, we can rise off the brain with all our faculties intact, recognizing grandma and speaking English!
The 2 minute video clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juriylw7B0g
I was just doing some searching, and I saw the link back on page 14 in this topic about Hal Finney being cryopreserved.
No disrespect to Hal, but I think that cryopreservation is a load of SHIT.
No one who is cryopreserved will ever be revived. The body simply does not work that way.
Each one of us, me, you, etc... WE are not the physical "we" that we see and feel in and of our physical human bodies. WE are the life energy, the "soul", as it is, and we merely inhabit these human bodies for the length of this bodies' lifespan. It is like living in a house that is freshly built when this body is born, and then over time the house decays and collapses, equivalent to the death of this human body.
So the actual Hal Finney is gone, probably onto his next life already, never to return to the long dead human body, or "house" he once lived in.
No disrespect to Hal, but I think that cryopreservation is a load of SHIT.
No one who is cryopreserved will ever be revived. The body simply does not work that way.
Each one of us, me, you, etc... WE are not the physical "we" that we see and feel in and of our physical human bodies. WE are the life energy, the "soul", as it is, and we merely inhabit these human bodies for the length of this bodies' lifespan. It is like living in a house that is freshly built when this body is born, and then over time the house decays and collapses, equivalent to the death of this human body.
So the actual Hal Finney is gone, probably onto his next life already, never to return to the long dead human body, or "house" he once lived in.
People have died-- no respiration, no heartbeat, and no brain activity for reasonably long spans of time--... under special circumstances of low temperatures and low oxygenation (which limited apoptosis) and survived.
Even under your mystical interpretation of life which is unsupported by scientific inquiry-- how could you have any idea how long someone must be dead before their soul "energy" couldn't return? Why should time even have meaning to soul energy?
And if it does someday become possible to recover people preserved today, every one of us that didn't support it vigorously will-- in hindsight-- be part of the largest scale mass murder ever... perhaps billions of lives that could be preserved, ignored, because some people had a hunch about soul 'energy' and what not.
The main thing I dislike about many religious and spiritual advocates isn't their unfounded beliefs-- knowledge has limits, currently for sure, and perhaps forever, I see no harm in dreaming about the gaps in between the things we know-- but, rather, the profound lack of imagination and the level of certainty in their ignorance.
If, in spite of all objective observation, "we" aren't these beautiful machines whos operations exists squarely in the somewhat known physical laws of the universe; but are instead some kind of ineffable soul energy unconstrained by normal physical law that would make it observable... Then why the heck should we expect that energy need to obey time? causality? distance? entropy? or otherwise behave like a physical thing, since you've already decided that it isn't one. No one has yet attempted to restore a cryopreserved person with a result that "should have worked" and yet found it didn't, and the closet we have (some freak accidents) suggests that people _can_ miraculously be revived if the meat machinery is in good enough shape. And the technology of cryopreservation, even if it can never be applied to whole people, is essential science that could eventually transform emergency medical treatment, organ transplants, and many other things.
I don't think this argument does anything to debase your view of an ineffable soul-- if anything it glorifies it: a soul that can transcend time and space to be returned back to the right place when summoned by the collective, careful, brilliant, and loving work of mans finest minds in the culmination of generations of study of the wonders of nature all around us... I think that kind of soul is a lot more grand that one that cares about "before" and "after", loses its attention, and goes elsewhere or fizzles out.
And I wonder, if some hundreds of years from now Hal will read this thread and feel sadness for each of us that didn't make it.
But especially for people who aren't popsicles now, there is no reason to be sad-- there is reason to work. As far as anyone knows a all forms of death from natural causes are curable and only ignorance, fear, and insufficiently audacious romanticism prevent us, collectively as mankind, from solving it-- http://www.nickbostrom.com/fable/dragon.html
Many people with old money are constrained by perverted social dynamics from funding research to fight death at a fundamental level-- the vision of some billionaire trying to live forever is so reflexively distasteful to people that they often won't fund it, even though the science might eventually save trillions of lives. I hope that more people who've gained wealth through Bitcoin will have the courage (or at least the ego) to buck that trend-- and I think we do, since I know at least six long time bitcoiners who fund relevant research.
Put another way, maybe you're right and Hal and no one else could ever be restored this way. So what? Many wealthy people already have funerals far more expensive than cryopreservation. And those funerals don't have even the tinyest chance of helping them come back in the future. Being cryopreseved wouldn't have any effect on your soul if they exist... but if works, it might just bring you back.
Or, in other words:
"So the possibility [...] may be quite a good bet, with a payoff of something like 100 million to 1! Even if the odds of [...] succeeding to this degree are slim, are they really 100 million to one against? Something to think about..."
Assuming you think the possibility of living for hundreds of years in the future is very valuable for you or those you love, a long shot bet on that would be a pretty good pay-off.
If you don't think it's at least worth considering, then you fail the test that would have defined you as a very early user of Bitcoin if you'd noticed that you had the opportunity.
I suppose, given how few people thought Bitcoin's long shot was interesting back when Bitcoin was worth nothing, I shouldn't be surprised that many dismiss ideas like this out of hand.
Perhaps something more to think about... Maybe some of of you who missed out in Bitcoin in 2009/2010 won't also miss out on a vastly extended lifespan? Quote
When the brain is deprived of oxygenated blood it dies very quickly.
Certainly not my area of expertise, but the techniques used for cryopreservation are quite remarkable. For small amounts of tissue the damage is negligible to non-existent which is part of why it's perfectly reasonable to keep human embryos cryogenically preserved for a decade (or more!), not just possible but widely done! The results on larger organs are less successful due to issues with evenness and speed, both in the preservation and recovery. But you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the serious work here, no one argues that this stuff is even _likely_ to work with the state of technology right now-- but it's far from the absolutely impossibility that has been argued here.Not to mention the indirect effects: I would sure prefer to live in a world where many people believed they needed to care for it to preserve it for themselves into the far future, than with people who expect to just vanish or go to some prefabricated paradise even if they make a mess of the place here.
I was just doing some searching, and I saw the link back on page 14 in this topic about Hal Finney being cryopreserved.
No disrespect to Hal, but I think that cryopreservation is a load of SHIT.
No one who is cryopreserved will ever be revived. The body simply does not work that way.
Each one of us, me, you, etc... WE are not the physical "we" that we see and feel in and of our physical human bodies. WE are the life energy, the "soul", as it is, and we merely inhabit these human bodies for the length of this bodies' lifespan. It is like living in a house that is freshly built when this body is born, and then over time the house decays and collapses, equivalent to the death of this human body.
So the actual Hal Finney is gone, probably onto his next life already, never to return to the long dead human body, or "house" he once lived in.
That's what I think, anyhow.
No disrespect to Hal, but I think that cryopreservation is a load of SHIT.
No one who is cryopreserved will ever be revived. The body simply does not work that way.
Each one of us, me, you, etc... WE are not the physical "we" that we see and feel in and of our physical human bodies. WE are the life energy, the "soul", as it is, and we merely inhabit these human bodies for the length of this bodies' lifespan. It is like living in a house that is freshly built when this body is born, and then over time the house decays and collapses, equivalent to the death of this human body.
So the actual Hal Finney is gone, probably onto his next life already, never to return to the long dead human body, or "house" he once lived in.
That's what I think, anyhow.
I do not agree. There is no soul. Our thoughts and our memories (everything) are electro-chemical processes in our brain. When the brain is deprived of oxygenated blood it dies very quickly. Consciousness and memories are lost. If the damage is localized, people may lose the ability to speak, move one arm, etc. It is called brain damage, and if extensive enough, it leads to death. After that, your "life energy", "spirit", or "soul" does not float around (because those are invented concepts). People who try to tell you otherwise are often trying to "sell" you something, like "eternal life" in a religion. But I understand that many people believe some version of what you wrote. And some of the people surrounding the creation of Bitcoin believe (or believed) that they can eventually be brought back. As far as I know, Satoshi never expressed such a belief.
Sans researching to confirm, I believe it was just Hal's head/brain that's a Popsicle®.
I was just doing some searching, and I saw the link back on page 14 in this topic about Hal Finney being cryopreserved.
No disrespect to Hal, but I think that cryopreservation is a load of SHIT.
No one who is cryopreserved will ever be revived. The body simply does not work that way.
Each one of us, me, you, etc... WE are not the physical "we" that we see and feel in and of our physical human bodies. WE are the life energy, the "soul", as it is, and we merely inhabit these human bodies for the length of this bodies' lifespan. It is like living in a house that is freshly built when this body is born, and then over time the house decays and collapses, equivalent to the death of this human body.
So the actual Hal Finney is gone, probably onto his next life already, never to return to the long dead human body, or "house" he once lived in.
That's what I think, anyhow.
No disrespect to Hal, but I think that cryopreservation is a load of SHIT.
No one who is cryopreserved will ever be revived. The body simply does not work that way.
Each one of us, me, you, etc... WE are not the physical "we" that we see and feel in and of our physical human bodies. WE are the life energy, the "soul", as it is, and we merely inhabit these human bodies for the length of this bodies' lifespan. It is like living in a house that is freshly built when this body is born, and then over time the house decays and collapses, equivalent to the death of this human body.
So the actual Hal Finney is gone, probably onto his next life already, never to return to the long dead human body, or "house" he once lived in.
That's what I think, anyhow.
I do not agree. There is no soul. Our thoughts and our memories (everything) are electro-chemical processes in our brain. When the brain is deprived of oxygenated blood it dies very quickly. Consciousness and memories are lost. If the damage is localized, people may lose the ability to speak, move one arm, etc. It is called brain damage, and if extensive enough, it leads to death. After that, your "life energy", "spirit", or "soul" does not float around (because those are invented concepts). People who try to tell you otherwise are often trying to "sell" you something, like "eternal life" in a religion. But I understand that many people believe some version of what you wrote. And some of the people surrounding the creation of Bitcoin believe (or believed) that they can eventually be brought back. As far as I know, Satoshi never expressed such a belief.
I was just doing some searching, and I saw the link back on page 14 in this topic about Hal Finney being cryopreserved.
No disrespect to Hal, but I think that cryopreservation is a load of SHIT.
No one who is cryopreserved will ever be revived. The body simply does not work that way.
Each one of us, me, you, etc... WE are not the physical "we" that we see and feel in and of our physical human bodies. WE are the life energy, the "soul", as it is, and we merely inhabit these human bodies for the length of this bodies' lifespan. It is like living in a house that is freshly built when this body is born, and then over time the house decays and collapses, equivalent to the death of this human body.
So the actual Hal Finney is gone, probably onto his next life already, never to return to the long dead human body, or "house" he once lived in.
That's what I think, anyhow.
No one is quite sure as of today. That's why cryopreservation is a thing. People these days are saying exactly what you're saying since no one can pull it off... yet.No disrespect to Hal, but I think that cryopreservation is a load of SHIT.
No one who is cryopreserved will ever be revived. The body simply does not work that way.
Each one of us, me, you, etc... WE are not the physical "we" that we see and feel in and of our physical human bodies. WE are the life energy, the "soul", as it is, and we merely inhabit these human bodies for the length of this bodies' lifespan. It is like living in a house that is freshly built when this body is born, and then over time the house decays and collapses, equivalent to the death of this human body.
So the actual Hal Finney is gone, probably onto his next life already, never to return to the long dead human body, or "house" he once lived in.
That's what I think, anyhow.
There's a hope that the future generations can do it. People are hoping.
Hal Finney is an actual legend. If they ever make a Bitcoin movie, its characters like this that would make it really interesting. Bitcoin has so many characters that would make for a great movie. I mean Dorian Nakamoto, Craig Wright and the mysterious death of David Kleiman, Hal Finney as a possible Satoshi being cryogenized then reborn 1000 years later with millions of BTC in his power... great stuff.
I was just doing some searching, and I saw the link back on page 14 in this topic about Hal Finney being cryopreserved.
No disrespect to Hal, but I think that cryopreservation is a load of SHIT.
No one who is cryopreserved will ever be revived. The body simply does not work that way.
Each one of us, me, you, etc... WE are not the physical "we" that we see and feel in and of our physical human bodies. WE are the life energy, the "soul", as it is, and we merely inhabit these human bodies for the length of this bodies' lifespan. It is like living in a house that is freshly built when this body is born, and then over time the house decays and collapses, equivalent to the death of this human body.
So the actual Hal Finney is gone, probably onto his next life already, never to return to the long dead human body, or "house" he once lived in.
That's what I think, anyhow.
No disrespect to Hal, but I think that cryopreservation is a load of SHIT.
No one who is cryopreserved will ever be revived. The body simply does not work that way.
Each one of us, me, you, etc... WE are not the physical "we" that we see and feel in and of our physical human bodies. WE are the life energy, the "soul", as it is, and we merely inhabit these human bodies for the length of this bodies' lifespan. It is like living in a house that is freshly built when this body is born, and then over time the house decays and collapses, equivalent to the death of this human body.
So the actual Hal Finney is gone, probably onto his next life already, never to return to the long dead human body, or "house" he once lived in.
That's what I think, anyhow.
Good luck fighting the ALS man, you'll need it.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
We should really lock this thread...he passed away in 2014...RIP Hal...
Let this thread get continued, Though he has passed his thoughts need to be known by every users who wish to be a part of bitcoin.
True, like the famous bitcoin-pizza thread, this should be kept alive.
i think someone should just make a compilation list of all these historic topics that are interesting with links to the respective topic and then sticky that topic in one of the boards.
because all these topics are eventually going to die and go to other pages and never be visited again.
yeah i agree with you there are lot of historic threads out there that going die pushed by same or multiples thread like "how can i have bitcoin" "how can i earn bitcoin" etc
anyways the one of the thread that must be on sticky is the first post from satoshi
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.28
too bad there is no more topic 1, it must have been removed!
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--1
Good luck fighting the ALS man, you'll need it.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
We should really lock this thread...he passed away in 2014...RIP Hal...
Let this thread get continued, Though he has passed his thoughts need to be known by every users who wish to be a part of bitcoin.
True, like the famous bitcoin-pizza thread, this should be kept alive.
i think someone should just make a compilation list of all these historic topics that are interesting with links to the respective topic and then sticky that topic in one of the boards.
because all these topics are eventually going to die and go to other pages and never be visited again.
yeah i agree with you there are lot of historic threads out there that going die pushed by same or multiples thread like "how can i have bitcoin" "how can i earn bitcoin" etc
anyways the one of the thread that must be on sticky is the first post from satoshi
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.28
Good luck fighting the ALS man, you'll need it.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
We should really lock this thread...he passed away in 2014...RIP Hal...
Let this thread get continued, Though he has passed his thoughts need to be known by every users who wish to be a part of bitcoin.
True, like the famous bitcoin-pizza thread, this should be kept alive.
i think someone should just make a compilation list of all these historic topics that are interesting with links to the respective topic and then sticky that topic in one of the boards.
because all these topics are eventually going to die and go to other pages and never be visited again.
Good luck fighting the ALS man, you'll need it.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
We should really lock this thread...he passed away in 2014...RIP Hal...
Let this thread get continued, Though he has passed his thoughts need to be known by every users who wish to be a part of bitcoin.
True, like the famous bitcoin-pizza thread, this should be kept alive.
Good luck fighting the ALS man, you'll need it.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
We should really lock this thread...he passed away in 2014...RIP Hal...
Let this thread get continued, Though he has passed his thoughts need to be known by every users who wish to be a part of bitcoin.
Good luck fighting the ALS man, you'll need it.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
We should really lock this thread...he passed away in 2014...RIP Hal...
and i'm just searched about him,i found this on cindesk. he was Bitcoin Pioneer and First Bitcoin Recipient.
Quote
The bitcoin world lost one of its earliest pioneers today with the legal passing of Hal Finney, the recipient of the world's first bitcoin transaction and its first identified developer after Satoshi Nakamoto. He was 58 years old.
Good luck fighting the ALS man, you'll need it.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
We should really lock this thread...he passed away in 2014...RIP Hal...
technically he is not dead, he is in some sort of cryogenic statis, i remember he said that he used all his bitcoin fortune to freeze his body until a cure will be find
I wonder if he'll be thawed out because 'they' found a cure for ALS or because they just want his passphrase.
Speaking of ALS, a good way not to get it is to not get a chronic mycoplasma infection, and a good way to do that is to avoid vaccinations. That's a strong hypothesis in my mind. Unfortunately it is probably to late for me...I got about 20,000 shots of God knows what for the Gulf war. No bizarre neurodegenerative disease yet though thankfully. Funny how such things as Mycoplasma fermentans and Borrelia burgdorferi and other species investigated as biological warfare agents seem to be popping up all over the place with these incurable but very expensive diseases which make big pharma even more rich while the victim dies a slow and painful death. Kinda makes a guy wonder...
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/574944_2
After reading this thread i just knew that Hal had als, and he wrote this thread with his voice,unbelievable i can't imagine if i'm on such a situation like him, fighting with that disease and got paralyzed still learning and take a place in this project
well Rest in peace Hal...you are a legend
well Rest in peace Hal...you are a legend
This is a nice article from March 2016 discussing Cryonics:
http://waitbutwhy.com/2016/03/cryonics.html
Gives a good overview about why someone like Hal made the choice he did.
True "cold storage"
http://waitbutwhy.com/2016/03/cryonics.html
Gives a good overview about why someone like Hal made the choice he did.
True "cold storage"
Good luck fighting the ALS man, you'll need it.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
We should really lock this thread...he passed away in 2014...RIP Hal...
technically he is not dead, he is in some sort of cryogenic statis, i remember he said that he used all his bitcoin fortune to freeze his body until a cure will be find
Hopefully, he set aside at least 1 bitcoin, in order that he could have at least $1million spending money when he gets out.
Good luck fighting the ALS man, you'll need it.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
Don't give up hope and stay fighting.
We should really lock this thread...he passed away in 2014...RIP Hal...
technically he is not dead, he is in some sort of cryogenic statis, i remember he said that he used all his bitcoin fortune to freeze his body until a cure will be find
The thread could be cryogenically frozen.
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