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Topic: Bitcoin as a currency (an economist view/contribution) (Read 777 times)

legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1037
I would highly appreciate if a developer might enlighten me and answer this question:
Assuming that blockchain or BTC completely ignored privacy, would this make transactions faster, less costly...etc.?
Or it is technically as is?

if we could turn back the clock where the bitcoin wasn't launch at full blast then we could ask the developer about this assumption but now it is too late to change the bitcoin protocol as it coin circulating reach to maturity level as high as 80 percent, and it is not easy to rewrote or re-implement new protocol once the infrastructure had been establish and a huge amount of money was invested to run the bitcoin industry, it is hard to take down and begin again from scratch.

I understand, till now nobody can travel back in time.

What I am thinking is not starting from scratch, just developing, modifying the software, the protocol or whatever to accommodate the required changes.  Software can be always and continuously modified to perform faster and faster, and cheaper, without re writing the whole application from scratch. This is the software part.

For the hardware, miners can still keep mining and solving the problems as usual using the same hardware.
They might lose some of the profits, but they might gain more if the amount and speed of transaction is increased and more people use it.
 
May be w need to think something like torrents, p2p...
What you think?
Surely bitcoin as currency will give the country specialty in the economic field the economy of that country will grow faster as compare to the other countries so as I am seeing which country will take initiative and I believe everyone will prefer the passport of that country as compare to the any other developed because there are a lot in bitcoins country.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Hi'
   Sir after reading all about you i just feel that ,you already know all the aspects about the share market. Bitcoin is also as much as similar like that the only difference is  the currencies.And you are already aware about the risk that held in this field.Do you know something success is always belongs to the risk takers.I am dam sure that you can make a huge profit by investing in this bitcoin by the experience of your investments in share market.It will give you a fabulous retirement days.

Thanks Ayaancool for your nice words.

It is a bit different from shares. The price of a share depends on the expected profit and expected growth, depends on the expected balance sheet of the company, taking of course lots of variables into consideration including even the management and past history and plans... companies pay dividends, you get money but you still have the original number of shares you bought.

But crypto, to make money, you mostly sell part of the crypto you already have. So, it is not income as such.

For everybody, who think about “huge” profits, or getting rich quick, as far as I know and my experience there is nothing as such. Investment is a continuous process, it is absolutely different from gambling.
There is as well nothing as expecting high returns because you are taking high risk, taking high risk means making high profit or high loss. Don’t look at profit only.

But still, there is what they call a calculated risk, it is about calculations before anything and after anything.


So, may I adivise you and everybody, investing should be a continuous process, slowly, calculating, estimating and deciding, this way you can build wealth and income sources. Other than that it is gambling.


Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Microsoft, Google, didn’t just “happen “ in a short time, they “happened over years and years... this is the only way to do it I know of, if I know of another way I would have done it for sure, and I am not that smart as them.

Wish you all, all the best.
full member
Activity: 308
Merit: 100
Hi'
   Sir after reading all about you i just feel that ,you already know all the aspects about the share market. Bitcoin is also as much as similar like that the only difference is  the currencies.And you are already aware about the risk that held in this field.Do you know something success is always belongs to the risk takers.I am dam sure that you can make a huge profit by investing in this bitcoin by the experience of your investments in share market.It will give you a fabulous retirement days.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Remember the one thing - even though somebody control the situation from the above it'd always be an opponent on his stage. States that would delay the blockchain development will lose to progressive countries. Banks that don't admit cryptocurrency will lose to their world competitors. Those who'd hold on an obscure fiat economy will be like North Corea nowadays.

Reframe "divide and rule" to a new paradigm "decentralize and rule".

Sure Loni, but I don’t take things based on conspiracy theory, it is just a game, everybody plays to win.

I believe as it is open source, nobody can really do anything to it. It only depends on the developers, as open source, they should listen and interact very actively with the community. This is my experience with Linux.

May be because I am new here, I don’t know if the developers are reading this or who comments is a developer or just a user like me.

There is only one way to go, even for banks, and even central banks, digital currencies, and they will have crypto currencies, BTC, ETH, XRP... etc as a given in the environment.

Still waiting to hear an answer from a developer on my above questions.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
Remember the one thing - even though somebody control the situation from the above it'd always be an opponent on his stage. States that would delay the blockchain development will lose to progressive countries. Banks that don't admit cryptocurrency will lose to their world competitors. Those who'd hold on an obscure fiat economy will be like North Corea nowadays.

Reframe "divide and rule" to a new paradigm "decentralize and rule".
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Quote

i fully agree with the statement above. How I wish that there would be more people having the same kind of understanding and orientation like you so that Bitcoin can really go mainstream as soon as possible. Yes, there are still many problems and challenges that Bitcoin can be facing but am sure that it can be able to withstood them all making it a very resilient and forward looking cryptocurrency.

We all know that central banks are using the power vested to them anytime to be printing the money they all want which can have many ramifications for the economy in general and our pockets in particular. This is one area which Bitcoin is a big contrast since its supply is quite limited.

There is a big possibility that governments would also get enamored with cryptocurrency and they will also be issuing their own versions of cryptocurrency...I have seen this trend and there is already a government on the verge of getting  this idea into reality.

I see we are sharing the same understanding. But don’t worry about crypto currencies. It is here to stay, nobody can really stop it. If they thought they have a little potential to stop it they wouldn’t have thought of issuing their own cryptocurrency.

The only challenge I see for now, in general, is the cost of transaction and speed, ease of use, to include everybody, every minor transaction.

If we reached this, it makes no big difference if they keep printing money.

Still hoping developers come in and answer my above question.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
56 years old huh Shocked wow that's quite inspiring and motivates younger people like me to stay into the crypto world forever.
I was knowing about Crypto from 3 years but came into the community a few months back. I really feel obliged to be in this community where one helps the other and earns side by side. I wanted something like this where I can be the boss of myself and don't have to be under any person.
Bitcoin has fulfilled this dream of mine and made me achieve a lot of things which I can't explain it right now.
I welcome you here and am quite impressed with the older generation people to walk aside the younger ones.

Thanks hasmukh_rawa, I again say, I’m not old, 56 yes, but saying again I am teen in heart. LOL.
I knew about bitcoin sometime ago in 2013, but at that time, still it was absolutely virtual. So I didn’t go in.
I was quite busy as well to follow up... but I just started about 1st September when I bought my first crypto and sold it and got money back to my bank. Then I took it seriously.

You are lucky, you are younger, you can reap the rewards some time, you already did somehow from what you wrote.

Just commenting on your post, I absolutely don’t agree with you that you can be “unemployed” now matter how rich you get. No matter how much endless guaranteed passive income you get. Humans should work and produce and be productive no matter what. Even working for free. If you are “consuming” something on this planet, morally you have to give something back at least equals to what you consume.

I hope together we can contribute something useful.

I see, I am being always called old generation though I’m feeling teen inside.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 501
Quote
Definitely crypto currencies and blockchain is a revolution and innovation that is going to change everything in everything, finance, trade, investment, banking and above all central banking. To comment on your post, no matter what governments or central banks do, they have only one choice. Admit, adopt and adapt to the new facts that there are non inflationary free crypto currencies. On the other hand crypto developers have to discuss and tackle the issues facing crypto currencies and its functionality. (my second post). The community has to decide what are the targets and priorities.
Based on these priorities development should go.

As an economist, technically, I hate the fact that money gets printed just as a central bank sees convenient. This is another reason I personally wish to see crypto currencies based on the principles of Bitcoin and Satoshi Nakamoto a day to day currency, a currency that allows you to tip a waiter or donate 1 cent to a beggar, a currency you can receive your salary in. But having a for example a Crypto Dollar, or Euro,..etc... that gets issued by a central authority doesn’t mean it is a REAL crypto currency. Though it still can happen I guess.

i fully agree with the statement above. How I wish that there would be more people having the same kind of understanding and orientation like you so that Bitcoin can really go mainstream as soon as possible. Yes, there are still many problems and challenges that Bitcoin can be facing but am sure that it can be able to withstood them all making it a very resilient and forward looking cryptocurrency.

We all know that central banks are using the power vested to them anytime to be printing the money they all want which can have many ramifications for the economy in general and our pockets in particular. This is one area which Bitcoin is a big contrast since its supply is quite limited.

There is a big possibility that governments would also get enamored with cryptocurrency and they will also be issuing their own versions of cryptocurrency...I have seen this trend and there is already a government on the verge of getting  this idea into reality.
copper member
Activity: 490
Merit: 105
★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!
56 years old huh Shocked wow that's quite inspiring and motivates younger people like me to stay into the crypto world forever.
I was knowing about Crypto from 3 years but came into the community a few months back. I really feel obliged to be in this community where one helps the other and earns side by side. I wanted something like this where I can be the boss of myself and don't have to be under any person.
Bitcoin has fulfilled this dream of mine and made me achieve a lot of things which I can't explain it right now.
I welcome you here and am quite impressed with the older generation people to walk aside the younger ones.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Maybe someone, a developer can answer the question, after reading my above posts, does anonymity  and privacy cause increased cost and slower transaction? Assuming we gave up annonimity and privacy, would this cause transaction speed to go up and transaction cost go down?

It is a programming or technical question I don’t know.

Having an answer might help.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
You are absolutely right jseverson, you presented facts.
But to clarify what I meant by illiterate who can’t read or write, not who absolutely can’t read or write, no, there are many people I have seen and even dealt with, who hardly read and write, they can’t read a book, but they can stare at the road signs, and hardly know just the alphabets, and figure out what it says, and just figure out numbers on a banknote, something like me reading German or Italian, or like me when I was in Greece before the EURO, Though  I know nothing about the alphabet, I could figure out what is the banknote I’m holding.

These people exist in some places in the world, and they can use a smart phone. Just reading the names or numbers, just very basic to jus t use the phone as a phone. But they can’t use the browser or read a book.

The post above supports the same concept, MIT students preferred ease of use. Think about it.

I am talking about a global currency for everybody as much as possible. Everybody will benefit. Even miners,  they make a little money just by recording a transaction of an already mined BTC, if the number of transactions increased they will be making much more money.
hero member
Activity: 1834
Merit: 759
Quote
I am saying above average taking into consideration the whole world population and their level of knowledge and experience because I assume we are talking about a “global” currency Bitcoin, it will presumably be exchanged by or with a poor guy somewhere in a village in a third world country, he might be not able even to read and write, but he still can use a mobile phone, so he should be able to easily install, send, receive Bitcoins.

Sorry, but I have to point out that if you can't read or write, then there's no way you can use a smartphone. Are you saying that a large fraction of the world don't have access to the technology that they would need to use Bitcoins? If so, you're right. I read a study that as of February 2017, only 50% of mobile connections are accounted by smartphones. I think it would be somewhat safe to assume that most people who don't have smartphones don't have computers either. That would mean as of the moment, even if everyone who could use Bitcoins did, they would only amount to roughly 50% of the world's population. That's a pretty low upper limit, with there being twice as many fiat users. That might be enough for merchants to accept Bitcoins as a payment option though.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
In the conclusion of the above paper,
Quote

Moreover, whenever privacy requires additional effort or comes at the cost of a less smooth user experience, participants are quick to abandon technology that would offer them greater protection. This suggests that privacy policy and regulation has to be careful about regulations that inadvertently lead consumers to be faced with additional effort or a less smooth experience in order to make a privacy-protective choice.

Unquote

I hope this helps crypto adoption to be widespread.

It confirms what I previously mentioned about ease of use, and the average Joe above.
The research was done on MIT students, I think they are at least above average Joes, when faced with sort of difficulty or unsmoothness, they preferred ease of use though even they can overcome the complications. They are MIT students.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
For privacy, a scientific research by MIT states that,
Quote

Bank-like wallets, instead, connect to traditional bank accounts and credit cards, offer a mobile app, can easily convert Bitcoin to and from government-issued money, and may provide additional privacy to their users from the public because of the way they pool transactions within their network without recording each one of them on the public ledger. At the same time, with bank-like wallets users need to be comfortable sharing all their transaction data and identity information with a commercial intermediary, and possibly the government since these intermediaries need to comply with Anti-Money Laundering (AML) and Know Your Customer (KYC) regulations like other financial institutions.
Students’ wallet choices therefore involve a trade-off in terms of who may have easier access to their financial transaction data in the future.The vast majority of participants (71%) selected a bank-like wallet and only 9% selected a wallet that is more difficult for the...

Unquote

Here is a link to the pdf http://www.nber.org/papers/w23488.pdf

I hope it helps.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
I would highly appreciate if a developer might enlighten me and answer this question:
Assuming that blockchain or BTC completely ignored privacy, would this make transactions faster, less costly...etc.?
Or it is technically as is?

if we could turn back the clock where the bitcoin wasn't launch at full blast then we could ask the developer about this assumption but now it is too late to change the bitcoin protocol as it coin circulating reach to maturity level as high as 80 percent, and it is not easy to rewrote or re-implement new protocol once the infrastructure had been establish and a huge amount of money was invested to run the bitcoin industry, it is hard to take down and begin again from scratch.

I understand, till now nobody can travel back in time.

What I am thinking is not starting from scratch, just developing, modifying the software, the protocol or whatever to accommodate the required changes.  Software can be always and continuously modified to perform faster and faster, and cheaper, without re writing the whole application from scratch. This is the software part.

For the hardware, miners can still keep mining and solving the problems as usual using the same hardware.
They might lose some of the profits, but they might gain more if the amount and speed of transaction is increased and more people use it.
 
May be w need to think something like torrents, p2p...
What you think?
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
the transaction fee is a sort of service fee from the miners and the witness signer of the the ledger from the blockchain in order to secure your transaction free from hacks and tampering. adding security features of bitcoin takes a lot of cost. If you want sort it out like verification is thru phone or any devices nearby that are bitcoin users are the one who verifies your transaction without the need of miners signatures on the blockchain, that's is what we called off-chain verification. Lightning Network trying to proposed this kind of solution to reduce transaction fees and speed up transaction capacity per second,the only problem is it needs another centralized network or server that need to broadcast or sending the data back to the mining pool and acknowledges the miner that those transactions were verified from the mobile devices but it does violates the bitcoin protocol of decentralization, an off-chain verification is possible but it can be a different entity not related to bitcoin mining.

Well, though I am not that deep in technical stuff related to bitcoin,as a principle, everything is better decentralised, well, I don’t mind keeping my wallet running all time to contribute part or idle processor power to the network, I’ll be mining very little, and I don’t mind giving the few Satoshi I mined with my mobile to the miner who have a lot of hardware, but in return, I might get a reduced transaction cost.
This will help spreading the use of altcoins.
sr. member
Activity: 616
Merit: 256
I would highly appreciate if a developer might enlighten me and answer this question:
Assuming that blockchain or BTC completely ignored privacy, would this make transactions faster, less costly...etc.?
Or it is technically as is?

if we could turn back the clock where the bitcoin wasn't launch at full blast then we could ask the developer about this assumption but now it is too late to change the bitcoin protocol as it coin circulating reach to maturity level as high as 80 percent, and it is not easy to rewrote or re-implement new protocol once the infrastructure had been establish and a huge amount of money was invested to run the bitcoin industry, it is hard to take down and begin again from scratch.
sr. member
Activity: 616
Merit: 256
The goal is to have Bitcoin and crypto as a currency, where everybody has access to, easily cheaply transfer and transact,... etc.

The current situation and problems in my opinion:

2- transaction cost, sending a crypto from someone to another, it is relatively high, so not still convenient to buy a bottle of water or a pizza and it costs the same amount to pay the seller. This simply means the buyer would pay double the price. So, still not convenient as a currency compared to FIAT.

I wonder if this can be sorted out as follows:
All wallets should have a feature like “Ok, this public address is sending to this public address 0.05 USD, let me send with it a private key for this transaction for this amount in particular. Sending through whatever communication, Bluetooth, WiFi, nfc, Sms, whatever. No need for blockchain and mining fees.

Maybe (and here I expect some miners to try to shoot me), maybe we can use wallets already running on thousands of individual mobile phones to do the job of verification. Everybody in the individual users wins. Almost instant, no transaction cost, so it will be convenient to buy a bottle of water with bitcoins.

The receivers wallet may take the senders public address and check it on the blockchain, if it really exists, if it really has the amount transferred. If true, it makes one entry with one single confirmation.


Hopefully I did not offend anybody, especially miners. Miners should think, what profit would be if the world is actually transacting in crypto.

I know many will see the above as nonsense, a few might see an idea, some might agree some might not.

But constructive discussion will always give the fruits.

the transaction fee is a sort of service fee from the miners and the witness signer of the the ledger from the blockchain in order to secure your transaction free from hacks and tampering. adding security features of bitcoin takes a lot of cost. If you want sort it out like verification is thru phone or any devices nearby that are bitcoin users are the one who verifies your transaction without the need of miners signatures on the blockchain, that's is what we called off-chain verification. Lightning Network trying to proposed this kind of solution to reduce transaction fees and speed up transaction capacity per second,the only problem is it needs another centralized network or server that need to broadcast or sending the data back to the mining pool and acknowledges the miner that those transactions were verified from the mobile devices but it does violates the bitcoin protocol of decentralization, an off-chain verification is possible but it can be a different entity not related to bitcoin mining.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
I would highly appreciate if a developer might enlighten me and answer this question:
Assuming that blockchain or BTC completely ignored privacy, would this make transactions faster, less costly...etc.?
Or it is technically as is?
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
The problem is not in bitcoin volatility. The problem is that the developers of bitcoin in the pursuit of privacy is not foreseen that the currency management is necessary for its development. No one now can create the conditions to organize the circulation of bitcoin in trade and it makes it difficult to become a full-fledged currency.

Wow.. you just raised an important issue about focusing on privacy.
Though I am a very very very pro of privacy, I was thinking, what privacy people really have if they have to trade on an exchange, with KYC and AML, even on localbitcoins, the seller got my name because I transferred fiat to him from my bank to his.
There is no privacy as such.

May be developers can find a way to create a voting thing online in different places, if a bitcoin user minds to sacrifice part of his privacy for more speed of transaction or for lower cost.

I believe acceptable privacy is something like “privacy” with bank accounts, just a few people can see and know that you transferred money or got money from Mr. Xyz, but they don’t really care about you.

Just my opinion, when it comes to privacy someone only care about “specific” people not knowing “specific” things, it is not about absolutely no body knows nothing.
It is impractical. As said, you can cheat some people all the time, or cheat all the people for sometime, but you can’t cheat all the people all the time. Replace with privacy and...

Maybe developers need to conduct a voting.

Edit: volatility I think is scaring many people away, not everybody is risk tolerant, risk tolerance even differs between different people.
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