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Topic: Bitcoin as an investment - page 2. (Read 3915 times)

soy
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1013
December 18, 2014, 04:22:33 PM
#44
The low Russian ruble and no cash flow into Bitcoin points to a very real loss of confidence in those who have defacto control and the idea itself. 

That photo of Karpeles giving the world the finger while wearing a very expensive suit comes to mine.
soy
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1013
December 18, 2014, 03:39:24 PM
#43
I like the idea of limited availability.  There will never be enough Bitcoins that every living US college graduate could own one.

But the falling price as it relates to large farms dumping the mined coins leads me to consider that KnC has had the most efficient Bitcoin miners and prices those too high but sells to a relative's farm.  Tactically they'd dump BTC until their efficient farms are the only viable farms  (I'm discounting miners who get free electric as they're unlikely unless government supported) and less efficient large farms would shutdown.  A disturbing facet is that if they then allowed the price to rise the previously mothballed farms would fire up so they would keep the price at that low.  They'd be harvesting a large slice of the mined Bitcoins until the payout for a discovered block drops from 25 to 12½.
legendary
Activity: 1762
Merit: 1011
December 18, 2014, 12:51:31 PM
#42
Bitcoin isn't an investment, it's insurance.

People devote a percentage of their investment portfolios to cash, so this is all just semantics.
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1026
★Nitrogensports.eu★
December 17, 2014, 11:07:20 PM
#41
Bitcoin isn't an investment vehicle, period.

It's a payment technology, protocol, and most of all cryptocurrency.

If you're in it to make a quick buck, you're doing it wrong.

Bitcoin is what the majority of people treat it to be.
A majority of people seem to be buying bitcoins treating it as an investment.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1278
December 17, 2014, 03:47:14 PM
#40
Bitcoin isn't an investment vehicle, period.
Stove it. It is whatever people treat it as.

Said it before but apparently there are always new people who can't think for themselves. Bitcoin requires people who will invest in it, and that requires the possibility of making a buck. It's a speculators game all the way to the top. Only then will it become a proper currency.
hero member
Activity: 1372
Merit: 783
better everyday ♥
December 17, 2014, 03:11:33 PM
#39
Bitcoin isn't an investment vehicle, period.

It's a payment technology, protocol, and most of all cryptocurrency.

If you're in it to make a quick buck, you're doing it wrong.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
December 17, 2014, 02:11:18 PM
#38
I have smalltimer on ignore.  But since you quoted him, I can humorously say exactly why he's on the ignore list.

With trolling like this: "____ is not finite by any means. It's just relatively scarce."  Shocked

What else is there to be said??  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
December 17, 2014, 01:56:47 PM
#37
nope. A lot of BS in that comment too.
Gold is not finite by any means. It's just relatively scarce.
Bitcoin is the exact opposite: it's finite but not scarce.

...

It's odd that you call someone else out on "BS" when you don't even appear to have a firm grim on the meaning of economic scarcity yourself.

The limited quantities of gold were never able to keep up with demand.  That's why it's scarce.

Finite things are not endlessly abundant.  That is what creates scarcity.

You said yourself that Bitcoin is finite.  Demand for it is what means that it is, in fact, scarce. 
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
December 17, 2014, 11:06:12 AM
#36
Satoshi intended it as a store of value and you could speculate on any store of value like gold or dollars. I thought he created it as a store of value for when banks go bankrupt.

only problem: it is no store of value  with that inflation.
So all you say does make no sense at all.


Stop comparing btc to gold. You look like idiots doing so.

Please explain this comment.

Gold is a finite resource Bitcoin is a finite resource (21M)

Gold is mined releasing more gold flowing into the market at a known rate. Bitcoin is the same

Golds value is arbituary and created purely by market forces. Bitcoin is the same.

If TOMORROW the whole world stopped buying Gold its value would be zero.

The only fundamental difference is gold is physical whereas BTC is digital but totally accountable.

SO, EXACTLY why is comparing BTC to goldf idiotic??

nope. A lot of BS in that comment too.
Gold is not finite by any means. It's just relatively scarce.
Bitcoin is the exact opposite: it's finite but not scarce.

"Gold is mined releasing more gold flowing into the market at a known rate. Bitcoin is the same"
what differes is the inflationrate. Gold: unknown - probably around 1% every year. Bitcoin: 10% , USD: 5%

So there is two or more false statements in two sentences.

Bitcoin has performed worse than the russian ruble this year. Would you compare the russian ruble to gold? Why not?

"Golds value is arbituary and created purely by market forces. Bitcoin is the same."
there are practical usecases for both apart from pure speculation.
Every good that's traded on the free market has a price determined by supply and demand. Nothing special about it.

So much shit in one comment is hard to wrap the head around.
Do you actually believe what you are writing there?

Pretty much all of that comment was pure BS and even false claims. Please stop commenting.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
December 17, 2014, 10:59:46 AM
#35
...
Please explain this comment.

Gold is a finite resource Bitcoin is BTCeanie BTCabies are a finite resource (21M)

Gold is mined releasing more gold flowing into the market at a known rate. Bitcoin is the same BTCeanie BTCabies supply is no longer inflating by 10-15% a year.

Golds value is arbituary and created purely by market forces. Bitcoin is BTCeanie BTCabies are the same.

If TOMORROW the whole world stopped buying Gold its value would be zero.

The only fundamental difference is gold is physical whereas BTC is digital but totally accountable. BTCeanie BTCabies are also physical.  So totally same, no fundamental difference.

SO, EXACTLY why is comparing Bitcoin BTCeanie BTCabies to goldf idiotic??

FTFY
member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
December 17, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
#34
Satoshi intended it as a store of value and you could speculate on any store of value like gold or dollars. I thought he created it as a store of value for when banks go bankrupt.

only problem: it is no store of value  with that inflation.
So all you say does make no sense at all.


Stop comparing btc to gold. You look like idiots doing so.

Please explain this comment.

Gold is a finite resource Bitcoin is a finite resource (21M)

Gold is mined releasing more gold flowing into the market at a known rate. Bitcoin is the same

Golds value is arbituary and created purely by market forces. Bitcoin is the same.

If TOMORROW the whole world stopped buying Gold its value would be zero.

The only fundamental difference is gold is physical whereas BTC is digital but totally accountable.

SO, EXACTLY why is comparing BTC to goldf idiotic??
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
December 17, 2014, 10:02:15 AM
#33
Satoshi intended it as a store of value and you could speculate on any store of value like gold or dollars. I thought he created it as a store of value for when banks go bankrupt.

only problem: it is no store of value  with that inflation.
So all you say does make no sense at all.


Stop comparing btc to gold. You look like idiots doing so.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
December 17, 2014, 08:13:55 AM
#32
I like bitcoin and it's a good long term investment it's just not doing well at the moment. Internet became big and now it's time for the internet money Wink
We will surely see bitcoin trade for $500+ again, but it may take months or even years.


It just as easily could go to $10 really.  Once it reaches "mass adoption" it could stabilize there.
member
Activity: 99
Merit: 10
December 16, 2014, 09:45:36 PM
#31
buy and hold Bitcoin is better for really long term investing
sr. member
Activity: 641
Merit: 253
▰▰▰ Global Cryptocurrency Paymen
December 16, 2014, 07:54:14 PM
#30
I like bitcoin and it's a good long term investment it's just not doing well at the moment. Internet became big and now it's time for the internet money Wink
We will surely see bitcoin trade for $500+ again, but it may take months or even years.
member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
December 16, 2014, 07:18:05 PM
#29
I do find most of the comments quite funny seriously lacking depth of thought.

Bitcoin is currently a speculative investment!

I invest in BTC because of the underlying technology and because it is a serious disrupter to traditional banking and transfer of wealth.

Assuming I am correct then BTC will increase in value over time and it has done rather well so far.

The $1000 bubble is normal and so is the market correction back to 300/400. If you look at the growth, from inception to today's spot value its impressive.

The value will go up when people see it as an "INVESTMENT" and they buy BTC with Fiat. Day to day some people are buying BTC to spend but this is currently a drop in the Ocean.

Let me share with you a little bit of reality to compare where BTC is today.

Apple started out in the 70's and is about 40 years old.

In that time they have grown from a silly little nerdy company (compared with Microsoft during the 80's) to a Company worth $630 BILLION

BTC is currently worth $5billion which is less than the amount of $100 dollar shares traded in Apple each day.

Bitcoin is in its infancy and subject to reacting violently to any market action but I will tell you VERY SIMPLY why BTC price will not keep dropping.

1 More and more people recognise the technology is sound and thus an excellent alternative to traditional currency

2 As the price drops it will become more and more attractive to investors and their very action to purchase will push the price back up.

Personally I would love to see it drop to around $250/$275 because the amount of money which could flood in could be enough for a lot of Russians and Chinese to transfer wealth from dollar too.. and that means BIG FAST RISE to $500.

Then next year the same bollox will be spouted in these forums again.. Then it will move up to $1000 and the next generation of people arriving at the forum will start spouting the same rubbish from the $1000 perspective when it drops to $800.

So remember guys.. BTC is in its infancy if it suddenly opens its mouth, saying  "Daddy" or just randomly farts the whole family will bang on about it for days!

As time moves forward Bitcoin will be exposed to growing pains until it matures OR fails.. I believe it is way past failure unless something happens in the underlying technology for everyone to lose faith.

It doesnt take much to lose faith.. In less than 2 years Russians have lost faith in their currency!
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
December 16, 2014, 04:11:51 PM
#28
give up, microsoft does not accept bitcoin, they accept USD from BIYPAY
yes, bitcoin is still not $0 today buy it's going to be there lower and lower as the passed history already showed us

I don't understand this argument. They take my bitcoin. I don't care what they do with them after I send them. In fact if they did not turn them back into fiat I would think they are making a mistake and abdicating their fiduciary responsibility.
I do not care about the price. I look at adoption. I use my bitcoin money and so I want places to spend them. These are stellar times! I can buy anything for bitcoin now, including microsoft products.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
December 16, 2014, 03:57:44 PM
#27
Bitcoin is independent of any of the fiat economies.


Oh, really?

Yet Bitcoin's value is measured in USD ... And merchants "accepting" bitcoin, actually doesn't accept Bitcoin at all, but USD through Bitpay and Coinbase ... Doesn't sound very independent to me.

If all the fiat economies of the world were to come crumbling down at the same time, would poor peasants in Africa and Asia all suddenly come flocking to Bitcoin? Or would they perhaps focus on getting food in their stomachs instead?
People in every country except America are saying "WTF are you talking about?" Dollars have no connection to bitcoin unless you have access to dollars, and most of the world does not.
Quote
The Bitcoin hype started dying as soon as Gox went out of business and took Markus and Willy with it. Every BTC bubble was fueled by Gox manipulation schemes. Now the world is seeing bitcoin for what it really is: A couple of thousand deluded cultist hoarders, and another couple of thousand junkies and pervs looking for drugs and child porn on the deep web.

Bitcoin has at least tripled in size since there was an Mt.Gox. Just in the last few days the second largest company in the world started using them. Huge players are arriving all the time. Now I can buy new cars, real estate, any kind of consumer item. You say there are a couple of thousand of us? BitPay (just one of many payment processors) has over 30K businesses that accept it. Coinbase has 37K.  Hell I've met thousands of bitcoin people myself at conferences and such. Wherever I travel around the world I spend my bitcoin and meet people who have embraced it. It is a world wide phenomena and growing exponentially.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
December 16, 2014, 03:47:24 PM
#26
Bitcoin was never meant as a investment and it is risky to do so.

The early hype was that since the number of Bitcoins that can exist won't change it will have better long term value than fiat.  This was after some years of savings accounts earning pennies per thousand dollars per year.  So, I'd say it was presented as an investment.

Marketing lies, guy. That's all it is, one lie after another. 'digital gold' is another good one lmao. Litecoin too is 'digital silver' lmao. The bitscam pyramid is one for the history books.
Marketing by who? ...

Every permabull chanting "BUY HODL EVERYTHING'S FINE"?
soy
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1013
December 16, 2014, 03:40:40 PM
#25
I can't find mention of it on Wikipedia but in the not too distant past I think the Polish zloty banknotes were printed in Great Britain but Poland couldn't pay for the printing because the mint required payment in a hard currency.  I think it's something of the same idea when the manufacturers of Bitcoin mining equipment dump Bitcoins for immediate hard cash.
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