Bitcoin as property - page 4. | Bitcointalksearch.org

richardsNY

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Quote from: cellard on April 08, 2018, 08:54:50 AM

In fact we should be reporting our monthly bitcoin income from signature campaigns, but who the hell does that? I would do it, but im too scared to get a penalty for not doing so earlier, and I also don't know what kind of proof they will demand, I just don't know what to expect, and nobody has clear answers for this, therefore I've resorted to holding it all until I have a clear vision of what we are talking about in this case.

It depends per country. I have been a freelancer for a good while, and haven't had one single time where the tax department required me to provide any proof. I recorded everything obviously, for in case they did ask for it, but it didn't happen. In some cases I had to pay like 50% in tax over all my earnings as freelancer, which is just insane. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind paying tax when reasonable, but this is a clear form of theft, and for that reason will never pay tax over my signature campaign earnings, and I'm sure others think alike -- just don't let greedy governments take away even more from you. Don't wake sleeping dogs....

Theb

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For your information all transactions involving a sell of good or services regardless what kind of payment you have given or receive involves tax. Sometimes it mostly involves value-added tax. Bitcoin being defined as a property won't change the fact that it is taxable. The only problem is how will the government deal with it? As a sell of property requires a lot more documents before the trasfer of property.

Even though the transaction is recorded in the Blockchain you will still need a notarized deed of sale before the sale of Bitcoin proceeds. So if I were in the government I would really make a bill were I give several exceptions and a specific definition to Bitcoin in order to end a lot of confusion.

ahmad21

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Not agree with the idea given in the video. I made out a similar doctrin using the Sales of good act as per which bitcoin can be considered as good. A good buying of which entails indirect tax while selling of which entails you direct tax. But I was able to draw up a similar doctrine with the financial instituions act. As per which bitcoin may be a financial instrument which can be traded and will be treated as a share or debenture when coming to payment of taxes. I would say its better if we wait for instructions of the authorities as to how to declare this income of bitcoin.

MCVXYZ

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Quote from: izanagi narukami on April 07, 2018, 10:22:15 AM

How about my government decide not to legalize bitcoin ?
If they don't legalize bitcoin, they don't have the right to apply the tax,right ?
They still not make any restrict policy yet so I can still use bitcoin without paying any tax !

According to the legal doctrine if something is not forbidden at the legislative level,means that its legal,So how is this issue regulated in your country?It sounds a bit antagonistic,if they don't legalize bitcoin how they can ask people for the tax? its nonsense,but there is one drawback,In particular,Everything depends on how your country's court defines the legal definition of bitcoin,I say this because may if there are no special,unique norms for concrete realationships may there will be used general norms for property right or tax law,etc.Anyway this is a very complex issue which takes a lot of time to deal with it.

cellard

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Quote from: orions.belt19 on April 07, 2018, 12:23:04 AM

According to this video, https://www.facebook.com/cnbccrypto/videos/1688689147880991/

Bitcoin is considered as property and therefore whenever you sell your BTCto cash, there are two transactions. You first sell the ‘property’ to cash value then what you gain from the sale is used as cash. These transactions are therefore taxable.

For HODLers, if you cash out it in less than a year then it would be considered as income so there’s tax for that. If you hodl for more than a year, then IRS will consider it as 20% capital gains.

It's not clear to me at all that this is the case, if you got paid in bitcoin instead of buying it. For instance, we the people that get paid for signature campaigns... this is income gains. Are you saying that if you hold the bitcoin transacted to you in exchange of the signature campaign work for 1+ year, you are able to cash these gains out as capital gains? Im not sure about that at all.

In fact we should be reporting our monthly bitcoin income from signature campaigns, but who the hell does that? I would do it, but im too scared to get a penalty for not doing so earlier, and I also don't know what kind of proof they will demand, I just don't know what to expect, and nobody has clear answers for this, therefore I've resorted to holding it all until I have a clear vision of what we are talking about in this case.

MCVXYZ

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In essence,For me its a special kind of property and thats why goverments,In particular legislative bodies are trying to create different and unique norms to regulate this economical relationships.Just imagine there are the same principles as for example when you are meeting a cheque,the bearer of this note can redeem it for real funds and also bitcoin holder too by its own,unique signature.What about capital gains,I think there will be the drawbacks,because of executive mechanism,Its also so hard and takes a lot of special knowledge and time to monitor everything connected with this cases.

Virtual miner

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Quote from: Proton2233 on April 08, 2018, 04:06:11 AM

Quote from: izanagi narukami on April 07, 2018, 10:22:15 AM

How about my government decide not to legalize bitcoin ?
If they don't legalize bitcoin, they don't have the right to apply the tax,right ?
They still not make any restrict policy yet so I can still use bitcoin without paying any tax !

You're wrong. The fact that your government has not legalized bitcoin does not mean that you are exempt from taxes. When you change bitcoin to Fiat you get money into a Bank account. This amount is your income and is subject to income tax. The rules are written so you can avoid taxes only if you do not use Fiat.

But that also depends that under which head you classify your bitcoin income. It cannot come under the head of salary because it doesn't match the criteria to be classified as a salary income. And property income, I don't really think it is... It cannot be classified under the head Profits and gains from business and profession. Then all we are left with are Income from capital gain & Income from other sources. To be qualified under the head capital gain income, it must meet the definition of the CAPITAL ASSET given under the Indian Income Tax Act 1961, i.e., Personal effects of movable nature including wearing apparel, furniture and vehicle used for personal use by the tax payer or any dependent member of such taxpayer.
So, bitcoins could be deemed a capital asset if they are purchased for investment. Any gain arising on transfer of a bitcoin shall be taxable as capital gain. However, if the transactions in bitcoins are substantial and frequent, it could be held that the taxpayer is trading in bitcoins, and the income would be taxable as business income. (Source: https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opinion/taxing-cryptocurrencies-in-india/article10012267.ece )

BennyK

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Quote from: izanagi narukami on April 07, 2018, 10:22:15 AM

How about my government decide not to legalize bitcoin ?
If they don't legalize bitcoin, they don't have the right to apply the tax,right ?
They still not make any restrict policy yet so I can still use bitcoin without paying any tax !

You have a point but indirectly, you pay tax whenever you change your Bitcoin to Fiat.
Many people consider Bitcoin as an asset whereas others see it as a currency but irrespective of the angle of view, the whole concept and principle of Bitcoin does not change. As long as it serves the purpose we want, I don't see the point in worrying much about whatever substance it is regarded as.

Proton2233

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Quote from: izanagi narukami on April 07, 2018, 10:22:15 AM

How about my government decide not to legalize bitcoin ?
If they don't legalize bitcoin, they don't have the right to apply the tax,right ?
They still not make any restrict policy yet so I can still use bitcoin without paying any tax !

You're wrong. The fact that your government has not legalized bitcoin does not mean that you are exempt from taxes. When you change bitcoin to Fiat you get money into a Bank account. This amount is your income and is subject to income tax. The rules are written so you can avoid taxes only if you do not use Fiat.

izanagi narukami

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How about my government decide not to legalize bitcoin ?
If they don't legalize bitcoin, they don't have the right to apply the tax,right ?
They still not make any restrict policy yet so I can still use bitcoin without paying any tax !

Hamphser

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Quote from: Guryon_master on April 07, 2018, 07:50:30 AM

I am not totally convinced with this 'though the possibility is there, the thing is, how can we consider it as property if bitcoin is only existing in the internet and the holder has no control with the price? Property is a thing that no one can control it and also when we talk about property we are talking about the physical thing. Could you please give me more explaination regarding this matter? I do really want to understand it? Thanks.

Property can be always classified or do mean on all the things we do posses and bitcoin can be considered as one but we do all know in the word "property" it would turn out always to see it on physical form and i do rather believe that bitcoin is an asset rather than a property.You said it hasnt a physical form and do only exist digitally and market price cant really be dictated and it do matter most on supply and demand where i somehow disagree into this matter.

Guryon_master

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I am not totally convinced with this 'though the possibility is there, the thing is, how can we consider it as property if bitcoin is only existing in the internet and the holder has no control with the price? Property is a thing that no one can control it and also when we talk about property we are talking about the physical thing. Could you please give me more explaination regarding this matter? I do really want to understand it? Thanks.

Palmerson

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Live cams shows pimped with cryptocurrency

Such difficulties with the payment of taxes due to the fact that the ultimate goal of the government to make sure that people abandoned the use of cryptocurrencies. With a great desire, it was possible to make a separate account for cashing out cryptocurrencies and through this account people could buy and sell cryptocurrencies. The difference between withdrawal and proceeds could be subject to a small tax. But governments don't need it. They want to make tax administration as difficult as possible.

orions.belt19

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According to this video, https://www.facebook.com/cnbccrypto/videos/1688689147880991/

Bitcoin is considered as property and therefore whenever you sell your BTCto cash, there are two transactions. You first sell the ‘property’ to cash value then what you gain from the sale is used as cash. These transactions are therefore taxable.

For HODLers, if you cash out it in less than a year then it would be considered as income so there’s tax for that. If you hodl for more than a year, then IRS will consider it as 20% capital gains.

Topic: Bitcoin as property - page 4. (Read 479 times)