Topic: Bitcoin at the US Senate - page 20. (Read 67168 times)

It's up for debate what authority they should have.  But they can thwart businesses from accepting it if Bitcon remains symbolic to pedo/terrorist/drug users.  

A few examples, they can shut down Coinbase, and every other company residing in the US.  This will only force businesses to move outside of America.  I don't think the Senate is naieve enough to think they can completely control bitcoin if/when they understand it.

But I regress, why do you think it is bad for communication with the Senate?  What harm can be done in reality, and how would you argue against my statement that only good can become of this - with the stipulation that if no communication was made they would already do what they are set out to do?

So what authority do you think they have? They shouldn't have authority over me at all (in theory) since I neither live nor have citizenship of the US - and nevertheless their laws impact on my freedom to transfer my money between different countries and bank accounts, which is already abhorrent.
But that aside, do you really think they have ethical authority over private transfers of wealth between individuals?

Be aware I'm not making the argument that all taxation is unethical (I'm not taking a position on that, don't want to go down that road).

And leave out these ad-hominems "dumb", "living in bubble" etc. Argue the point.

Hi Mike,

Well, here is my suggestions...

I think one of the biggest issue at the moment is a wide spread misconception about what exactly is Bitcoin. As evidenced by this forum, there is a mass of people which are not aware that Bitcoin is just a software which allows people to use a medium of exchange defined as BTC. There are many people projecting their expectation and insecurities over the concept of the Bitcoin software.

If I was called to testify, I would ensure to be prepared to explain how exactly the Bitcoin software works in every detail, but with simple explanations. In other words, I would really teach the enquirers as best I could about the Bitcoin software. I would even do live demonstrations to let the audience to understand better what exactly the Bitcoin software can do.

I believe that providing the most accurate information to people in position of power always results in good outcomes. Misinformation can lead to wrong decisions and serious failures. It is important to ensure the enquirers understand that:

- BTC is NOT a currency (the enquirers need to be assured that BTC is a digital medium of exchange which is evaluated against national currencies, mainly the USD. This is very important because it will shape the future decisions to create laws regarding the utilization of BTC in the financial market. So they have to learn that BTC has to be regulated as medium of exchange, not as currency.)

- Bitcoin was NOT developed to undermine the utilization of fiat currencies or replace money transmission business (this is one of the more common misconceptions about the Bitcoin software. People believe that Bitcoin was made to replace business like Visa, Paypal, Western Union, etc. This is, of course, a delusional belief. The Bitcoin software could never replace such business because it not offer the necessary structure required to operate such business. So it is important the enquirers understand that the Bitcoin software was initially developed to offer an alternative way to transmit money. I would tell the enquirers that any financial institution today could use the Bitcoin software to transmit money, including any departments of the federal government such as the IRS.)

A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution.

- Bitcoin do NOT facilitate criminal activities (this must be explained in very precise details because is directed correlated to national security. The enquirers must to know that transactions generated by the Bitcoin network are not under control of one single entity, but it is recorded in a single virtual ledger which is quite difficult to tamper. So there is a way to keep track of how much money is transmitted in the Bitcoin network.)

They don't even care about foundation members. The Foundation is a way to make rich its "founders". That was obvious from the day 1 when they violated their own by-laws.

So what authority do you think they have? They shouldn't have authority over me at all (in theory) since I neither live nor have citizenship of the US - and nevertheless their laws impact on my freedom to transfer my money between different countries and bank accounts, which is already abhorrent.
But that aside, do you really think they have ethical authority over private transfers of wealth between individuals?

Be aware I'm not making the argument that all taxation is unethical (I'm not taking a position on that, don't want to go down that road).

And leave out these ad-hominems "dumb", "living in bubble" etc. Argue the point.

They do, like it or not.  If you fail to understand this you are living in a bubble.

Definitely, but they can control Bitcoin in America to a limited extent.

By entering into a dialogue with the US govt. about it, you are tacitly accepting that they have any authority to make such rules.

Bitcoin is not American, for a start.

I'm even more concerned about the extent to which the general population will be swayed by their governments' propaganda.

And how is entering a discussion going to make this happen faster?  They will do this whether they (the powers that be) want to or not.  By offering dialogue at least it leaves open discussion to not let this happen.  Just sitting back and not being proactive and pretending the government is not interested is not going to achieve anything.

And again, even if they did deem something like localbitcoins illegal, it is not enforceable.  

+1

Centralized Regulation is the antithesis of Decentralized.   

To the people bashing this you are either just mindless anarchists or just flat out dumb.

What the Bitcoin Foundation is trying to do is get the US powers that be to understand bitcoin and not stiffen bitcoin businesses in the US.

Unfortunately the US is a land of laws, and bitcoin can attempt to explain laws that should be put in to place that won't stop adaptation.

Bitcoin can go on without the US saying so, but it can also become successful quickly if the US adapts sensible laws.

Regardless, bitcoin will live whether the US attempts to thwart it or not.

It is disappointing to see so many intelligent people come to such an appallingly bad conclusion as "coin tainting is acceptable".

The failure here is to not understand that some things are principles, not matters for arbitration.

Look at the complete destruction of these principles in modern life:
the right to a fair trial and innocent until proven guilty
the right to free speech
the right to privacy

These are the principles which, in a slow and painful process since the Enlightenment, have created a whole new superior order of civilisation. But they have been abandoned.

Example: the right to free speech. Since terrorists and child pornographers and racist hate-mongers use this right, and we don't find that acceptable, we limit free speech in these cases. But any limitation of free speech for any reason means that speech is conditionally free, not actually free. And that means that a certain privileged group in society has to act as the arbiter.

So many intelligent people, certainly many or even most among those I know, think that this is an acceptable state of affairs - some things cannot be tolerated, so let's be "reasonable". There is nothing reasonable about this at all - a 1% reduction in freedom is actually a 100% reduction - something is free, or it is conditional. If it is conditional (and this is the point that I think people don't understand), human nature dictates that the conditionality will be exploited by the corrupt to gain more and more power for themselves and those with their views.

Now back to bitcoin. Money should be fungible - this is exactly freedom in the context of money. Money can still function if it is not free, as it does now for example with bank accounts, but it is a very different thing - it's really a multiparty contract in which one of the parties is some arbitrating organisation (usually a branch of government), which has the ultimate say in which money can and cannot be spent.

Gold could be used as a pure, free form of money but it was very subject to physical limitations. Bitcoin does not have those limitations and can be kept genuinely free. Please consider this. Just because pure freedom is not possible in the physical world does not mean it is impossible in the platonic realm of digital data.

Waste of time. A decentralized currency doesn't need that.

11/18/13 02:30PM Beyond Silk Road: Potential Risks, Threats, and Promises of Virtual Currencies

 SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building  

http://www.aoc.gov/capitol-buildings/dirksen-senate-office-building

These hearing are normally open to the public but you may wish to call ahead.

U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs:

340 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, DC, 20510
(202) 224-2627

...
- Bitcoin was NOT developed to undermine the utilization of fiat currencies or replace money transmission business (this is one of the more common misconceptions about the Bitcoin software. People believe that Bitcoin was made to replace business like Visa, Paypal, Western Union, etc. This is, of course, a delusional belief. The Bitcoin software could never replace such business because it not offer the necessary structure required to operate such business. So it is important the enquirers understand that the Bitcoin software was initially developed to offer an alternative way to transmit money. I would tell the enquirers that any financial institution today could use the Bitcoin software to transmit money, including any departments of the federal government such as the IRS.)
...

Why the Bitcoin foundation should not exist?

This is also correct.