I thought crypto was classified as property and not securities? If so, the securities rules wouldn't necessarily apply, right?
But let's say that crypto is a security. On top of that, let's say that every transaction, including exchanges between coins are taxable events. How exactly would that work out at tax time, on a practical level? I would think the easiest way is to track the valuation of each coin against say, USD, at both the time of buy/mine and exchange, but that's a huge amount of historical data to maintain, on top of keeping the historical transaction dates/amounts. Does someone care to opine on this?
I believe in paying my taxes so I want to get it right, but frankly it seems to me that even the regulators are kind of confused on this whole area and not providing much in the way of guidance.
Saw this article on Coindesk today, hope this goes through.
https[Suspicious link removed]mption-bitcoin-transactions-600/
Topic: Bitcoin Attorney Will Answer All Questions: - page 3. (Read 19920 times)
Regarding ALT coins, wouldn't it be safe to simplify and say that as long as purchasers agree that this is not a security, not an investment, that covers the company offering an ICO?
Where do these fit in:
1.no US customers/purchasers
2. and/or accredited investors only
Where do these fit in:
1.no US customers/purchasers
2. and/or accredited investors only
Unfortunately, purchasers cannot waive the status of an offering from a security to a non-security. The issuer cannot have the purchaser waive the issuer's non-compliance with any securities regulation. Bottom line, the onus is on the issuer.
Full disclosure, I am an attorney practicing securities arbitration. The foregoing is not intended to be legal advice and no attorney-client relationship is implied.
Dear BTC/Crypto Legal Forum:
As an experienced BTC attorney I'm happy to answer all questions here.
I have noticed some misinformation in some answers here. When it comes to taxes, laws and regulations, guessing or opinions are not helpful and can easily lead to problems. Most solutions to all the questions here can be summed up in a few short answers.
I can only give legal advice to laws in the United States but can discuss other countries in general terms. I've been involved as an attorney and a miner in BTC and Crypto's for 3 years. During that time I have represented many client's involved in our crypto world. Happy Mining!
George D. Greenberg, Esq.
AttorneyBitcoin
Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S.A.
www.attorneybitcoin.com
As an experienced BTC attorney I'm happy to answer all questions here.
I have noticed some misinformation in some answers here. When it comes to taxes, laws and regulations, guessing or opinions are not helpful and can easily lead to problems. Most solutions to all the questions here can be summed up in a few short answers.
I can only give legal advice to laws in the United States but can discuss other countries in general terms. I've been involved as an attorney and a miner in BTC and Crypto's for 3 years. During that time I have represented many client's involved in our crypto world. Happy Mining!
George D. Greenberg, Esq.
AttorneyBitcoin
Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S.A.
www.attorneybitcoin.com
Hello and thanks for doing this! I had some questions regarding the recent SEC decision on the DAO token, classifying them as securities.
I've been doing some research on this topic and have not found the exact answer.
1) Basically, I was wondering what are the legal/tax implications when participating in an ICO as an American citizen?
Let's say a US citizen uses a VPN to partake in an ICO. They double their money and then sell. They decide to cash out to fiat (USD) legally and pay the 40% short-term tax on that trade profit (as well as report it) to the IRS.
I heard that ICO providers prevent US citizens from participating to protect themselves legally from the American Government if a scam were to occur. Is this true? I basically come to realize this is a gray area.
2) If someone invests into a crypto months ago and then sells and the SEC determines that it was a security in the future, did that investor break the law? Can retroactive action be applied to this if no firm legal standing was enacted in the first place?
1. second question: ICO issuers may be cautious not to accept contributions from US citizens for fear of "selling unregistered securities" thereby possibily subjecting the issuers to SEC jurisdiction.
2. Interesting question. Take a look at https://www.sec.gov/oiea/investor-alerts-and-bulletins/ib_coinofferings.
The focus in the Investor Bulletin are sales by the ICO issuer. It's not so much whether the investor broke the law rather to help the investor protect against fraud.
Full disclosure, I am an attorney practicing securities arbitration. The foregoing is not intended to be legal advice and no attorney-client relationship is implied.
The above answers were not from me, George D. Greenberg. The Author failed to identify himself by name.
I believe that is obvious, Mr. Greenberg. Stating that I "failed" to do anything implies I did something wrong, to which I disagree. Nevertheless, my commentary is correct.
Regarding ALT coins, wouldn't it be safe to simplify and say that as long as purchasers agree that this is not a security, not an investment, that covers the company offering an ICO?
Where do these fit in:
1.no US customers/purchasers
2. and/or accredited investors only
Where do these fit in:
1.no US customers/purchasers
2. and/or accredited investors only
Also... you say
7. Until you sell for fiat or use to purchase goods or services you have no taxable gain.
Are you 100 percent sure about this? I checked reddit and alot of other threads on this and it seems many accountants say there is a gain even if you go from altcoin to altcoin. A few ppl say you dont but majority say you do.
7. Until you sell for fiat or use to purchase goods or services you have no taxable gain.
Are you 100 percent sure about this? I checked reddit and alot of other threads on this and it seems many accountants say there is a gain even if you go from altcoin to altcoin. A few ppl say you dont but majority say you do.
Thanks for the explanation.
I now understand.
why legal bitcoin in some countries.
Best:
George D. Greenberg, Esq.
www.attorneybitcoin.com
I now understand.
why legal bitcoin in some countries.
Best:
George D. Greenberg, Esq.
www.attorneybitcoin.com
Hi there thanks for the response.
So basically you are saying this.
Say i have 5 btc that i want to use to trade on bittrex. So during this time the btc is either in bittrex or my bitcoin wallet because i read its better to keep btc in your wallet for security issues.
I trade for other altcoins etc to do trades as i read this is what is needed which again i find strange because i figure usd would make the most sense. Let say i make 10btc in a year doing this. So now my bitcoin balance goes up from 5 btc to 15btc. But i never turn any of these btc into usd.
Thus you are basically saying if btc and altcoins never get converted into fiat, then there is no tax on it? So basically someone could trade for one whole year and make say 10 btc and have 15 btc in their wallet. But they do not have to pay any tax until they cash it to usd? So basically someone could trade for years and could turn that 5btc into 35 btc and not pay any tax until they cash out? So when they do cashout, then they pay their tax right? Because if this is true, then im going to start trading very soon because i had thought you had to pay taxes on trades even if its altcoin to altcoin.
Can you confirm this? Because i had thought trading altcoin to altcoin there is no tax. But i read someone posted in a forum not sure if its this one or not where there is tax even if its altcoin to altcoin. But if you dont cash it to usd... how can you even record it because your profits would be in btc and that price is changing all the time. And also since you havent turned it into usd.
So basically you are saying this.
Say i have 5 btc that i want to use to trade on bittrex. So during this time the btc is either in bittrex or my bitcoin wallet because i read its better to keep btc in your wallet for security issues.
I trade for other altcoins etc to do trades as i read this is what is needed which again i find strange because i figure usd would make the most sense. Let say i make 10btc in a year doing this. So now my bitcoin balance goes up from 5 btc to 15btc. But i never turn any of these btc into usd.
Thus you are basically saying if btc and altcoins never get converted into fiat, then there is no tax on it? So basically someone could trade for one whole year and make say 10 btc and have 15 btc in their wallet. But they do not have to pay any tax until they cash it to usd? So basically someone could trade for years and could turn that 5btc into 35 btc and not pay any tax until they cash out? So when they do cashout, then they pay their tax right? Because if this is true, then im going to start trading very soon because i had thought you had to pay taxes on trades even if its altcoin to altcoin.
Can you confirm this? Because i had thought trading altcoin to altcoin there is no tax. But i read someone posted in a forum not sure if its this one or not where there is tax even if its altcoin to altcoin. But if you dont cash it to usd... how can you even record it because your profits would be in btc and that price is changing all the time. And also since you havent turned it into usd.
Thanks for the thread. I have questions i like to ask.
1. I know assuming you buy bitcoin and hold it and dont sell, there is no taxes on it. Now let me use this example. Let say you bought 10 bitcoin a long time ago for like 500 each. You held on to it. However you also sportsbet and play some poker online. And let say these sites use bitcoin as deposit/withdraw. So let say you have 5000 usd in a sportsbetting account. You withdraw from it via btc. So when you receive the btc, you receive around that amount in btc. However lets make it simple and say you did not have any sportsbetting winnings. Now if you withdraw that btc, there is obviously no tax involved right? Now the other thing is say you deposit that same amount of btc into another sportsbetting site. Let say when you deposit that amt of btc in another site, they only credit you with 4850 or something like that because most sites charge you a percentage on btc fees. So here... you actually lost money going from btc to fiat. But in the first process where you withdraw the 5k fiat into btc, let just say it was around 5k to make it simple. So basically with this 4850 in your balance in a sportsbook let say you bet sports and just break even again. Then you cash it out into btc and want to transfer that 4850 usd worth of btc into another sportsbetting site. The thing is here even though you moved more than 1 btc a few times and it got converted into fiat every time, there is no tax on bitcoin right? The reason i ask this is because you have 10btc in your wallet. But now you moved the 1.xx btc few times with sportsbetting sites which converted to fiat.
However, you are not touching your original 10btc. You are basically using this other btc to move money around sportsbook or poker sites etc. Because my thought would be... wouldnt they say you cashed out btc 2 or 3 times already and have gains of 4000 btc price -500 btc original buying price so 3500 each times 2 = 7000? Because it seems like now your original 10btc... 8 of them are at 500 original price and 2 are at 4000 usd price? I assume there is no way this is done like this right? I guess you can say its like a First in first out method? However, if someone needs to use btc to move funds to sportsbooks and poker sites... its obvious that the original 10 btc that are being held are not touched right? Because if this was the case, then unless someone holds btc and never even use btc withdrawn from other sites to move... then wouldnt everyone have capital gains immediately?
2. Do trading sites like bittrex, coinbase and others give 1099? I heard coinbase does but one person told me he had a 1099 that was so incorrect. He said they gave him a 1099 which showed like over 100k profit in a year when he made less than 20k i believe. He said it was because coinbase tracks every btc send and receive as INCOME... which is obviously incorrect. So i dont plan to use coinbase at all because of it. But do you know about bittrex? Because that is what im planning to use to trade altcoins.
3. If you are trading altcoins for altcoins or btc for altcoins and vice versa, is there a tax on it? I recall ppl say there is no tax unless that coin is converted into usd. That makes the most sense. Because say you trade btc for another coin like lisk. Thus if you want lisk... you need to trade btc for it. You cannot even trade usd for it. So say you made a 1k profit on lisk. However the profit is in BTC... its not in usd. But every sale you make that has profit is capital gains right? But how are these gains even computed? Let say this. Let say you traded 10k worth of btc for 10k worth of lisk. Lisk goes up 50 percent. You selll it and make around 5k in profit minus fees so let say 4800 usd worth of profit. However this profit is in btc ON THAT DAY. So what happens if u just keep the btc as it is. Let say btc drops a bit and now your profit is only 4300 etc. But are you suppose to record the profit on that day.. or the last day of the calendar year? The thing is if you are a usd balance in your account and say you use 10k usd to buy 10k worth of lisk. Then say you sold it for 15k usd. Then sure... its easy to say the profit is like 4800 usd after fees. But if its in BTC AND YOU HAVEN'T CASHED ANY BTC OUT... how do you even record gains? I believe i read trading altcoin to altcoin counts tax. But how is it even possible when the profit is in BTC? Your profit is fluctuation all the time. Say you profited 1.1 btc from trading btc for lisk. But after a while that 1.1 btc is only worth 3500. Later on its 3800. What is even the amount you tax it at? Unless you convert it to usd... how do you even record a tax?
4. I heard you get taxed on long term and short term gains. How much percentage is each? And how long is each?
5. If someone bought btc a long time ago let say $10000 worth. Let just say that btc turned into 250000 usd. How much percentage in that tax would that person has to pay? I know it depends on what state you are but let say you are in the highest tax state which i believe is california. If someone makes like 240000 usd holding btc and then selling it... would he get taxed like 30-35 percent? Or would it be like 15-20 percent etc? So basically if someone makes 250k trading btc... they pay less tax as oppose to do them working a regular job because capital gains is only 15 percent? However they also have to pay self employment tax so it adds up to at least 30 percent? So if someone is a professional sportsbettor or poker player and makes 50k... that person would pay more tax than someone who trades btc and make the same 50k even though both are self employed? Because from this, im assuming if you make most of your money on capital gains, you pay less tax than a regular job or a professional gambler etc?
6. Related to the question about the 1099. So if sites like bittrex i believe reports to the irs... is this true or not? Then what numbers are they giving to the irs? I assume all the numbers? The thing is wouldn't there be issues because if someone withdraws 15k worth of btc from the site. But say 13k worth of btc was theres? Thus they only had 2k profit but bittrex would say its 15k? So how do traders even record their profit/loss for taxes when you sell and buy but its NOT IN USD? thus its in btc to other altcoins etc? This is really confusing because the same btc now could be worth much less or more later on. And if u dont cash your btc out, then how is there any profit?
7. What happens if you profit a good amount trading but never cashed any btc into fiat. Thus the btc profit is always in an exchange or your btc wallet. Say you make 50k trading. But u did not cash any of it out. So you are suppose to report 50k even though you never turned any btc into cash and never cashed it out to your bank account? So what happens if next year you lose 50k worth of btc trading? So you pay tax on 50k trading one year... do you get back your taxes paid the next year if you lose the 50k back etc?
I know i posted quite a bit of questions. I have not traded yet still because im not sure how taxes work with btc since i found out on bittrex... if u want to buy altcoins, u need to use btc and u cannot use usd. That just makes it so confusing.
1. I know assuming you buy bitcoin and hold it and dont sell, there is no taxes on it. Now let me use this example. Let say you bought 10 bitcoin a long time ago for like 500 each. You held on to it. However you also sportsbet and play some poker online. And let say these sites use bitcoin as deposit/withdraw. So let say you have 5000 usd in a sportsbetting account. You withdraw from it via btc. So when you receive the btc, you receive around that amount in btc. However lets make it simple and say you did not have any sportsbetting winnings. Now if you withdraw that btc, there is obviously no tax involved right? Now the other thing is say you deposit that same amount of btc into another sportsbetting site. Let say when you deposit that amt of btc in another site, they only credit you with 4850 or something like that because most sites charge you a percentage on btc fees. So here... you actually lost money going from btc to fiat. But in the first process where you withdraw the 5k fiat into btc, let just say it was around 5k to make it simple. So basically with this 4850 in your balance in a sportsbook let say you bet sports and just break even again. Then you cash it out into btc and want to transfer that 4850 usd worth of btc into another sportsbetting site. The thing is here even though you moved more than 1 btc a few times and it got converted into fiat every time, there is no tax on bitcoin right? The reason i ask this is because you have 10btc in your wallet. But now you moved the 1.xx btc few times with sportsbetting sites which converted to fiat.
However, you are not touching your original 10btc. You are basically using this other btc to move money around sportsbook or poker sites etc. Because my thought would be... wouldnt they say you cashed out btc 2 or 3 times already and have gains of 4000 btc price -500 btc original buying price so 3500 each times 2 = 7000? Because it seems like now your original 10btc... 8 of them are at 500 original price and 2 are at 4000 usd price? I assume there is no way this is done like this right? I guess you can say its like a First in first out method? However, if someone needs to use btc to move funds to sportsbooks and poker sites... its obvious that the original 10 btc that are being held are not touched right? Because if this was the case, then unless someone holds btc and never even use btc withdrawn from other sites to move... then wouldnt everyone have capital gains immediately?
2. Do trading sites like bittrex, coinbase and others give 1099? I heard coinbase does but one person told me he had a 1099 that was so incorrect. He said they gave him a 1099 which showed like over 100k profit in a year when he made less than 20k i believe. He said it was because coinbase tracks every btc send and receive as INCOME... which is obviously incorrect. So i dont plan to use coinbase at all because of it. But do you know about bittrex? Because that is what im planning to use to trade altcoins.
3. If you are trading altcoins for altcoins or btc for altcoins and vice versa, is there a tax on it? I recall ppl say there is no tax unless that coin is converted into usd. That makes the most sense. Because say you trade btc for another coin like lisk. Thus if you want lisk... you need to trade btc for it. You cannot even trade usd for it. So say you made a 1k profit on lisk. However the profit is in BTC... its not in usd. But every sale you make that has profit is capital gains right? But how are these gains even computed? Let say this. Let say you traded 10k worth of btc for 10k worth of lisk. Lisk goes up 50 percent. You selll it and make around 5k in profit minus fees so let say 4800 usd worth of profit. However this profit is in btc ON THAT DAY. So what happens if u just keep the btc as it is. Let say btc drops a bit and now your profit is only 4300 etc. But are you suppose to record the profit on that day.. or the last day of the calendar year? The thing is if you are a usd balance in your account and say you use 10k usd to buy 10k worth of lisk. Then say you sold it for 15k usd. Then sure... its easy to say the profit is like 4800 usd after fees. But if its in BTC AND YOU HAVEN'T CASHED ANY BTC OUT... how do you even record gains? I believe i read trading altcoin to altcoin counts tax. But how is it even possible when the profit is in BTC? Your profit is fluctuation all the time. Say you profited 1.1 btc from trading btc for lisk. But after a while that 1.1 btc is only worth 3500. Later on its 3800. What is even the amount you tax it at? Unless you convert it to usd... how do you even record a tax?
4. I heard you get taxed on long term and short term gains. How much percentage is each? And how long is each?
5. If someone bought btc a long time ago let say $10000 worth. Let just say that btc turned into 250000 usd. How much percentage in that tax would that person has to pay? I know it depends on what state you are but let say you are in the highest tax state which i believe is california. If someone makes like 240000 usd holding btc and then selling it... would he get taxed like 30-35 percent? Or would it be like 15-20 percent etc? So basically if someone makes 250k trading btc... they pay less tax as oppose to do them working a regular job because capital gains is only 15 percent? However they also have to pay self employment tax so it adds up to at least 30 percent? So if someone is a professional sportsbettor or poker player and makes 50k... that person would pay more tax than someone who trades btc and make the same 50k even though both are self employed? Because from this, im assuming if you make most of your money on capital gains, you pay less tax than a regular job or a professional gambler etc?
6. Related to the question about the 1099. So if sites like bittrex i believe reports to the irs... is this true or not? Then what numbers are they giving to the irs? I assume all the numbers? The thing is wouldn't there be issues because if someone withdraws 15k worth of btc from the site. But say 13k worth of btc was theres? Thus they only had 2k profit but bittrex would say its 15k? So how do traders even record their profit/loss for taxes when you sell and buy but its NOT IN USD? thus its in btc to other altcoins etc? This is really confusing because the same btc now could be worth much less or more later on. And if u dont cash your btc out, then how is there any profit?
7. What happens if you profit a good amount trading but never cashed any btc into fiat. Thus the btc profit is always in an exchange or your btc wallet. Say you make 50k trading. But u did not cash any of it out. So you are suppose to report 50k even though you never turned any btc into cash and never cashed it out to your bank account? So what happens if next year you lose 50k worth of btc trading? So you pay tax on 50k trading one year... do you get back your taxes paid the next year if you lose the 50k back etc?
I know i posted quite a bit of questions. I have not traded yet still because im not sure how taxes work with btc since i found out on bittrex... if u want to buy altcoins, u need to use btc and u cannot use usd. That just makes it so confusing.
Please PM me here.
Best:
George Greenberg
Best:
George Greenberg
what is the best legal structure to have for an ICO?
best place to incorporate?
thank you
best place to incorporate?
thank you
Hello George,
We're a BTC mining team from South America and we'd like to start mining next year in Trinidad and Tobago. We know is legal there but we wanted to know if there're any laws that you know might prevent us from doing it legally.
Thank you,
Chris
We're a BTC mining team from South America and we'd like to start mining next year in Trinidad and Tobago. We know is legal there but we wanted to know if there're any laws that you know might prevent us from doing it legally.
Thank you,
Chris
Hello Chris. I cannot advise on laws outside of the United States as I simply don't know and have not been engaged to study the same.
Best of luck:
George D. Greenberg, Esq.
www.attorneybitcoin.com
Hello,
Maybe you can answer me this:
The Bitcoin & crypto exchange C-CEX.com literally stole 358 Dash from my account back in 2014 and used the money to pay other users whose bitcoins had been stolen in a hack that happened a couple months before the incident. After many months they finally refunded me 50 Dash. When I asked for the other 300 they closed my account and banned my IP address. Now in august 2017 308 Dash is worth $100,838
Very little is known about C-CEX.com and who runs it beside that they are based in Ukraine. Could they be associated with BTC-E.com? Could be but I have no proof.
I offered a Bitcoin bounty on Roger Ver's BitcoinBounty.com but no information was ever gathered.
Other users got their digital money stolen from C-CEX as well so I am not excluding a class action lawsuit but for that I need resources and I don't have any at the moment.
What are my other options?
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Maybe you can answer me this:
The Bitcoin & crypto exchange C-CEX.com literally stole 358 Dash from my account back in 2014 and used the money to pay other users whose bitcoins had been stolen in a hack that happened a couple months before the incident. After many months they finally refunded me 50 Dash. When I asked for the other 300 they closed my account and banned my IP address. Now in august 2017 308 Dash is worth $100,838
Very little is known about C-CEX.com and who runs it beside that they are based in Ukraine. Could they be associated with BTC-E.com? Could be but I have no proof.
I offered a Bitcoin bounty on Roger Ver's BitcoinBounty.com but no information was ever gathered.
Other users got their digital money stolen from C-CEX as well so I am not excluding a class action lawsuit but for that I need resources and I don't have any at the moment.
What are my other options?
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
I'm sorry for your losses. I have had a lot of questions recently about frozen, lost, stolen BTC. Is there a pattern emerging here? Were the exchanges prepared for such a huge run up in such a short amount of time? I do not have other options for you, but then again, I'm not a litigation attorney so don't take my word as final. One thing is for sure; it is not wise to keep larger amounts of coin on an exchange.
George D. Greenberg, Esq.
www.attorneybitcoin.com
Hello,
Maybe you can answer me this:
The Bitcoin & crypto exchange C-CEX.com literally stole 358 Dash from my account back in 2014 and used the money to pay other users whose bitcoins had been stolen in a hack that happened a couple months before the incident. After many months they finally refunded me 50 Dash. When I asked for the other 300 they closed my account and banned my IP address. Now in august 2017 308 Dash is worth $100,838
Very little is known about C-CEX.com and who runs it beside that they are based in Ukraine. Could they be associated with BTC-E.com? Could be but I have no proof.
I offered a Bitcoin bounty on Roger Ver's BitcoinBounty.com but no information was ever gathered.
Other users got their digital money stolen from C-CEX as well so I am not excluding a class action lawsuit but for that I need resources and I don't have any at the moment.
What are my other options?
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Maybe you can answer me this:
The Bitcoin & crypto exchange C-CEX.com literally stole 358 Dash from my account back in 2014 and used the money to pay other users whose bitcoins had been stolen in a hack that happened a couple months before the incident. After many months they finally refunded me 50 Dash. When I asked for the other 300 they closed my account and banned my IP address. Now in august 2017 308 Dash is worth $100,838
Very little is known about C-CEX.com and who runs it beside that they are based in Ukraine. Could they be associated with BTC-E.com? Could be but I have no proof.
I offered a Bitcoin bounty on Roger Ver's BitcoinBounty.com but no information was ever gathered.
Other users got their digital money stolen from C-CEX as well so I am not excluding a class action lawsuit but for that I need resources and I don't have any at the moment.
What are my other options?
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Hello Mr. Greenberg,
I am a lawyer from China and am doing some research on Bitcoin/block chain issues.
I understand from various news reports that FBI seized a lot of Bitcoin from Silk Road and BTC-e during previous operations against them, and FBI may sell or may have sold them in the market. I am wondering how FBI can do this. As I understand it, no one can have access to the Bitcoin unless they get the private key to it. How can FBI get the private key to the Bitcoin held by Silk Road or BTC-e? Can FBI force someone to surrender his/her private key? I don't think so.
If I am the owner of some Bitcoin and I memorize the private key in my mind instead of writing it down, is it possible for the law enforcement authority in the US to take my Bitcoin and sell it in the market? If not, does it mean that the Bitcoin may not be subject to enforcement even if there is an effective judgment?
I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
Regards,
Yao Liang
I am a lawyer from China and am doing some research on Bitcoin/block chain issues.
I understand from various news reports that FBI seized a lot of Bitcoin from Silk Road and BTC-e during previous operations against them, and FBI may sell or may have sold them in the market. I am wondering how FBI can do this. As I understand it, no one can have access to the Bitcoin unless they get the private key to it. How can FBI get the private key to the Bitcoin held by Silk Road or BTC-e? Can FBI force someone to surrender his/her private key? I don't think so.
If I am the owner of some Bitcoin and I memorize the private key in my mind instead of writing it down, is it possible for the law enforcement authority in the US to take my Bitcoin and sell it in the market? If not, does it mean that the Bitcoin may not be subject to enforcement even if there is an effective judgment?
I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
Regards,
Yao Liang
Dear Yao Liang:
That is a lot of 'if's.' Your worries are speculative as you do not have any current issues. In general, if there is a judgment and you are asked under oath to disclose assets that may be subject to attachment or garnishment to satisfy the judgment, and you refuse to so disclose, you could be held in contempt of court.
George D. Greenberg, Esq.
www.attorneybitcoin.com
So if I have records of purchases on coinbase a while ago, and I used that btc to play on chinese bitcoin futures (margin), I never touched fiat, and I increased my bitcoin stash around 800%, and have been holding that bitcoin ever since, should there be any problems with me claiming that bitcoin as long term capital gains tax? What if the chinese bitcoin exchange was hacked and is now gone for some time?
I suggest you consult a Certified Public Accountant, Sir.
George D. Greenberg
Dear BTC/Crypto Legal Forum:
As an experienced BTC attorney I'm happy to answer all questions here.
I have noticed some misinformation in some answers here. When it comes to taxes, laws and regulations, guessing or opinions are not helpful and can easily lead to problems. Most solutions to all the questions here can be summed up in a few short answers.
I can only give legal advice to laws in the United States but can discuss other countries in general terms. I've been involved as an attorney and a miner in BTC and Crypto's for 3 years. During that time I have represented many client's involved in our crypto world. Happy Mining!
George D. Greenberg, Esq.
AttorneyBitcoin
Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S.A.
www.attorneybitcoin.com
As an experienced BTC attorney I'm happy to answer all questions here.
I have noticed some misinformation in some answers here. When it comes to taxes, laws and regulations, guessing or opinions are not helpful and can easily lead to problems. Most solutions to all the questions here can be summed up in a few short answers.
I can only give legal advice to laws in the United States but can discuss other countries in general terms. I've been involved as an attorney and a miner in BTC and Crypto's for 3 years. During that time I have represented many client's involved in our crypto world. Happy Mining!
George D. Greenberg, Esq.
AttorneyBitcoin
Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S.A.
www.attorneybitcoin.com
Hello and thanks for doing this! I had some questions regarding the recent SEC decision on the DAO token, classifying them as securities.
I've been doing some research on this topic and have not found the exact answer.
1) Basically, I was wondering what are the legal/tax implications when participating in an ICO as an American citizen?
Let's say a US citizen uses a VPN to partake in an ICO. They double their money and then sell. They decide to cash out to fiat (USD) legally and pay the 40% short-term tax on that trade profit (as well as report it) to the IRS.
I heard that ICO providers prevent US citizens from participating to protect themselves legally from the American Government if a scam were to occur. Is this true? I basically come to realize this is a gray area.
2) If someone invests into a crypto months ago and then sells and the SEC determines that it was a security in the future, did that investor break the law? Can retroactive action be applied to this if no firm legal standing was enacted in the first place?
1. second question: ICO issuers may be cautious not to accept contributions from US citizens for fear of "selling unregistered securities" thereby possibily subjecting the issuers to SEC jurisdiction.
2. Interesting question. Take a look at https://www.sec.gov/oiea/investor-alerts-and-bulletins/ib_coinofferings.
The focus in the Investor Bulletin are sales by the ICO issuer. It's not so much whether the investor broke the law rather to help the investor protect against fraud.
Full disclosure, I am an attorney practicing securities arbitration. The foregoing is not intended to be legal advice and no attorney-client relationship is implied.
The above answers were not from me, George D. Greenberg. The Author failed to identify himself by name.
So if I have records of purchases on coinbase a while ago, and I used that btc to play on chinese bitcoin futures (margin), I never touched fiat, and I increased my bitcoin stash around 800%, and have been holding that bitcoin ever since, should there be any problems with me claiming that bitcoin as long term capital gains tax? What if the chinese bitcoin exchange was hacked and is now gone for some time?
Dear BTC/Crypto Legal Forum:
As an experienced BTC attorney I'm happy to answer all questions here.
I have noticed some misinformation in some answers here. When it comes to taxes, laws and regulations, guessing or opinions are not helpful and can easily lead to problems. Most solutions to all the questions here can be summed up in a few short answers.
I can only give legal advice to laws in the United States but can discuss other countries in general terms. I've been involved as an attorney and a miner in BTC and Crypto's for 3 years. During that time I have represented many client's involved in our crypto world. Happy Mining!
George D. Greenberg, Esq.
AttorneyBitcoin
Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S.A.
www.attorneybitcoin.com
As an experienced BTC attorney I'm happy to answer all questions here.
I have noticed some misinformation in some answers here. When it comes to taxes, laws and regulations, guessing or opinions are not helpful and can easily lead to problems. Most solutions to all the questions here can be summed up in a few short answers.
I can only give legal advice to laws in the United States but can discuss other countries in general terms. I've been involved as an attorney and a miner in BTC and Crypto's for 3 years. During that time I have represented many client's involved in our crypto world. Happy Mining!
George D. Greenberg, Esq.
AttorneyBitcoin
Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S.A.
www.attorneybitcoin.com
Did you listen to Rossdale CLE class on bitcoin ? If so, what was your opinion ?
I felt it wasn't comprehensive on certain subject ....
http://www.mcssl.com/store/legalresourcesinc/catalog/product/10a48f46dc5141e99cda0056d1eda08f
Hello Mr. Greenberg,
I am a lawyer from China and am doing some research on Bitcoin/block chain issues.
I understand from various news reports that FBI seized a lot of Bitcoin from Silk Road and BTC-e during previous operations against them, and FBI may sell or may have sold them in the market. I am wondering how FBI can do this. As I understand it, no one can have access to the Bitcoin unless they get the private key to it. How can FBI get the private key to the Bitcoin held by Silk Road or BTC-e? Can FBI force someone to surrender his/her private key? I don't think so.
If I am the owner of some Bitcoin and I memorize the private key in my mind instead of writing it down, is it possible for the law enforcement authority in the US to take my Bitcoin and sell it in the market? If not, does it mean that the Bitcoin may not be subject to enforcement even if there is an effective judgment?
I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
Regards,
Yao Liang
I am a lawyer from China and am doing some research on Bitcoin/block chain issues.
I understand from various news reports that FBI seized a lot of Bitcoin from Silk Road and BTC-e during previous operations against them, and FBI may sell or may have sold them in the market. I am wondering how FBI can do this. As I understand it, no one can have access to the Bitcoin unless they get the private key to it. How can FBI get the private key to the Bitcoin held by Silk Road or BTC-e? Can FBI force someone to surrender his/her private key? I don't think so.
If I am the owner of some Bitcoin and I memorize the private key in my mind instead of writing it down, is it possible for the law enforcement authority in the US to take my Bitcoin and sell it in the market? If not, does it mean that the Bitcoin may not be subject to enforcement even if there is an effective judgment?
I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
Regards,
Yao Liang
Jump to: