Bitcoin Axiom #0 - If you do not have the private keys for your bitcoins ... - page 2.

whtchocla7e

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Quote from: justusranvier on February 25, 2014, 12:57:07 PM

From a legal perspective, you can say that the coins an exchange owes are still yours even if they lose them. You might even be right.

From a legal perspective, you can't prove anything. Nobody can claim the right to a Bitcoin private key thus nobody can claim the right to any Bitcoin.

Yea, guess what? Bitcoin doesn't give a...

There's no place for the human element in mathematics.

hostmaster

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---With that scenario, your computer is not yours, government can take it. If you have no computer, you have no bitcoins.
---
Yes with one little difference, no body knows if i own bitcoin... Grin

justusranvier

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Quote from: whtchocla7e on February 25, 2014, 12:38:45 PM

If I lose the keys to my house, it's still my house.

From a legal perspective, you can say that the coins an exchange owes are still yours even if they lose them. You might even be right.

Guess what? Bitcoin doesn't give a shit. You can talk about law until you're blue in the face, but the network won't care.

Bitcoin is a distributed computer that enforces a rule that says, "satisfying the conditions of an input script is both necessary and sufficient to spend bitcoins".

That is the only law bitcoin recognizes.

Musent

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Quote from: hostmaster on February 25, 2014, 12:48:38 PM

Quote from: Musent on February 25, 2014, 12:43:59 PM

Quote from: hostmaster on February 25, 2014, 12:40:19 PM

Quote from: whtchocla7e on February 25, 2014, 12:38:45 PM

If I lose the keys to my house, it's still my house.

Untill one day goverment officials ask you the keys because you did not paid back loans. ... this is good dream continue dreaming... i am safe i am safe i have keys i am safe.

This statement makes no sense about losing keys to a house. Has nothing to do with making payments lol.

Takes time to understand... Yes. Enjoy. think a bit. I question here, what is really yours in the real life? You can own a home but it is not your home. You can have a company billion dollars worth but one of day, goverment officials decide it's their anymore.
You can own a bitcoin it's yours. Because bitcoin anonymous. You only lose it when you lose keys.

With that scenario, your computer is not yours, government can take it. If you have no computer, you have no bitcoins.

hostmaster

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Quote from: Musent on February 25, 2014, 12:43:59 PM

Quote from: hostmaster on February 25, 2014, 12:40:19 PM

Quote from: whtchocla7e on February 25, 2014, 12:38:45 PM

If I lose the keys to my house, it's still my house.

Untill one day goverment officials ask you the keys because you did not paid back loans. ... this is good dream continue dreaming... i am safe i am safe i have keys i am safe.

This statement makes no sense about losing keys to a house. Has nothing to do with making payments lol.

Takes time to understand... Yes. Enjoy. think a bit. I question here, what is really yours in the real life? You can own a home but it is not your home. You can have a company billion dollars worth but one of day, goverment officials decide it's their anymore.
You can own a bitcoin it's yours. Because bitcoin anonymous. You only lose it when you lose keys.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: whtchocla7e on February 25, 2014, 12:46:52 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on February 25, 2014, 12:42:55 PM

Bitcoin has no centralized ledger of ownership.

I think it does -- the block chain.

Bitcoin in itself is perfectly organized.

Until you insert humans into the equation.

The blockchain is a ledger but it isn't centralized, it is decentralized. It has no central authority, changes to the ledger are by consensus.

whtchocla7e

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on February 25, 2014, 12:42:55 PM

Bitcoin has no centralized ledger of ownership.

I think it does -- the block chain.

Bitcoin in itself is perfectly organized.

Until you insert humans into the equation.

Musent

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Quote from: Holliday on February 25, 2014, 12:43:18 PM

Quote from: whtchocla7e on February 25, 2014, 12:38:45 PM

If I lose the keys to my house, it's still my house.

Bitcoin private keys are the deed and the keys rolled into one. As long as you can protect your private keys, no one, including the government, can take your Bitcoins without your permission.

If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.

Create secure private keys, and then protect them, and you will never lose any bitcoins.

This is what every owner of bitcoin should know. Great advice Holliday.

Musent

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Quote from: hostmaster on February 25, 2014, 12:40:19 PM

Quote from: whtchocla7e on February 25, 2014, 12:38:45 PM

If I lose the keys to my house, it's still my house.

Untill one day goverment officials ask you the keys because you did not paid back loans. ... this is good dream continue dreaming... i am safe i am safe i have keys i am safe.

This statement makes no sense about losing keys to a house. Has nothing to do with making payments lol.

Holliday

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Quote from: whtchocla7e on February 25, 2014, 12:38:45 PM

If I lose the keys to my house, it's still my house.

Bitcoin private keys are the deed and the keys rolled into one. As long as you can protect your private keys, no one, including the government, can take your Bitcoins without your permission.

If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.

Create secure private keys, and then protect them, and you will never lose any bitcoins.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: whtchocla7e on February 25, 2014, 12:38:45 PM

If I lose the keys to my house, it's still my house.

Excellent point. If you do not have private key for your house, then you still own the house. Bitcoins are not houses. The key to a house only grants access, ownership of houses is by a centralized ledger run by the state. This is why if you lose your house key, you may have a temporary loss of access but you still own the house. The entry in the state's ledger will still list you as the owner. Bitcoin has no centralized ledger of ownership. It was intended to remove the need for a centralized ledger of ownership thus the private key for bitcoins is more relevant than the key to your house.

hostmaster

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Quote from: whtchocla7e on February 25, 2014, 12:38:45 PM

If I lose the keys to my house, it's still my house.

Untill one day goverment officials ask you the keys because you did not paid back loans. ... this is good dream continue dreaming... i am safe i am safe i have keys i am safe.

Nothing is really yours everything belongs to govs. For example all companies when wanted become goverments... Welcome to the planet earth.
House is yours because you pay taxes.

grifferz

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Quote from: whtchocla7e on February 25, 2014, 12:38:45 PM

If I lose the keys to my house, it's still my house.

It's almost like crypto keys and physical keys aren't really comparable or something.

whtchocla7e

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If I lose the keys to my house, it's still my house.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Bitcoin Axiom #0 - If you do not have the private keys for your bitcoins, then you have no bitcoins.

If you deposit your bitcoins with an exchange then although their site may display an amount of bitcoins what you have is an IOU for a certain amount of bitcoins. An IOU is a form of debt, it only has value as long as it is honored. A significant portion of debt is never repaid. Bitcoin has no counterparty risk, a bitcoin IOU does have counterparty risk.

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