Bitcoin banks | Bitcointalksearch.org

drotares

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Quote from: Razick on February 25, 2015, 06:01:10 PM

This is a common fallacy in the Bitcoin community. The fact is banks could work almost the same with Bitcoin as with the US dollar. Yes, that includes creating more Bitcoin from nothing. Keep in mind: Banks don't actually print more dollar bills, but they do put new "dollars" in circulation. Likewise, Bitcoin banks wouldn't mine Bitcoin into existence, but they would create new "bitcoins." There is nothing to prevent fractional reserve banking.

Also, remember that banks work with cash. There is no built in mechanism to force a borrower to repay a cash loan, but there is a legal structure, which works just as well with Bitcoin.

What do you think about the weaknesses of fractional reserve lending? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HYSMxu-Dns)

I think these comments are interesting: http://www.quora.com/How-does-bitcoin-and-the-information-technology-that-makes-it-possible-have-implications-for-our-world-as-a-global-society

Razick

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This is a common fallacy in the Bitcoin community. The fact is banks could work almost the same with Bitcoin as with the US dollar. Yes, that includes creating more Bitcoin from nothing. Keep in mind: Banks don't actually print more dollar bills, but they do put new "dollars" in circulation. Likewise, Bitcoin banks wouldn't mine Bitcoin into existence, but they would create new "bitcoins." There is nothing to prevent fractional reserve banking.

Also, remember that banks work with cash. There is no built in mechanism to force a borrower to repay a cash loan, but there is a legal structure, which works just as well with Bitcoin.

drotares

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Quote from: hazenyc on February 24, 2015, 02:36:47 PM

Quote from: drotares on February 24, 2015, 02:10:54 PM

Quote from: hazenyc on February 23, 2015, 10:24:19 PM

There might be a way that PoS coins could operate as a distributed credit system making it akin to banking.
Right now staking wallets hoard money in order increase their chances of winning the 'raffle' that mints new PoS coins and adds them to the blockchain.
This is fundamentally flawed for a currency system since hoarding money causes a deflationary spiral and a liquidity crisis. It also moves the cryptocurrency ecosystem into a phase of rentier capitalism that will only benefit few and remove the 'spirit' of the experiment.

What if, though, the funds inside staking wallets are made available for loan. The wallet holder will still have the rights to the 'raffle tickets' but the coins in question could be borrowed by whomever. The borrower would be 'short' the raffle tickets to the lender. Those rights to the tickets could be transferable and assignable becoming the seeds for crypto banknotes.

This is just a seed of an idea and I am sure there are flaws and also positives that I have not yet figured out.

What do you think of this bitcoin-based approach to loans? www.crowbe.com

This doesn't really say much except that it's a microloan facility which already exists from a number of sites. Microloans are person to person or peer-to-peer loans which are not assignable so it's not that useful. Meaning if I loan you 1 BTC to start a cookie business you can't assign that debt to somebody else so that now my debt is to them and not you. Debts should be fungible and transferable/assignable. Microloans carry a high degree of credit risk as well.

I see the bitcoin blockchain as being able to verify dollar loans via colored coins but that's also not the same thing.

The difference is that those micro loans are not made out of "thin air" (benefits and risks are shared in a community
through prorations based on the weight of the lender), and also is an invest because after some prorates you will eventully have back your BTC plus a profit. The idea is to carry loans to poor areas. The impact of one BTC in a poor currency could be huge.

tee-rex

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Quote from: hazenyc on February 19, 2015, 07:21:53 PM

Quote from: Amph on February 19, 2015, 04:13:25 PM

bitcoin has already a banks, and this is your wallet, your personal bank, which is the best and most secure bank, if you know what you do

a wallet is a bank the same way a piggy bank is a bank. What you are referring to is a vault perhaps.
A bank (as a business) is not a place to store cash, it is a place that issues loans and takes deposits. When you deposit money in the bank they don't actually have your money - instead your deposit is a claim to demand that amount of money. It shows up on the bank's balance sheet as a liability.

Though I agree with you on the whole, but what about savings banks then, which primary purpose is accepting savings deposits, not issuing loans?

hazenyc

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Activity: 668

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Quote from: drotares on February 24, 2015, 02:10:54 PM

Quote from: hazenyc on February 23, 2015, 10:24:19 PM

There might be a way that PoS coins could operate as a distributed credit system making it akin to banking.
Right now staking wallets hoard money in order increase their chances of winning the 'raffle' that mints new PoS coins and adds them to the blockchain.
This is fundamentally flawed for a currency system since hoarding money causes a deflationary spiral and a liquidity crisis. It also moves the cryptocurrency ecosystem into a phase of rentier capitalism that will only benefit few and remove the 'spirit' of the experiment.

What if, though, the funds inside staking wallets are made available for loan. The wallet holder will still have the rights to the 'raffle tickets' but the coins in question could be borrowed by whomever. The borrower would be 'short' the raffle tickets to the lender. Those rights to the tickets could be transferable and assignable becoming the seeds for crypto banknotes.

This is just a seed of an idea and I am sure there are flaws and also positives that I have not yet figured out.

What do you think of this bitcoin-based approach to loans? www.crowbe.com

This doesn't really say much except that it's a microloan facility which already exists from a number of sites. Microloans are person to person or peer-to-peer loans which are not assignable so it's not that useful. Meaning if I loan you 1 BTC to start a cookie business you can't assign that debt to somebody else so that now my debt is to them and not you. Debts should be fungible and transferable/assignable. Microloans carry a high degree of credit risk as well.

I see the bitcoin blockchain as being able to verify dollar loans via colored coins but that's also not the same thing.

drotares

newbie

Activity: 7

Merit: 0

Quote from: hazenyc on February 23, 2015, 10:24:19 PM

There might be a way that PoS coins could operate as a distributed credit system making it akin to banking.
Right now staking wallets hoard money in order increase their chances of winning the 'raffle' that mints new PoS coins and adds them to the blockchain.
This is fundamentally flawed for a currency system since hoarding money causes a deflationary spiral and a liquidity crisis. It also moves the cryptocurrency ecosystem into a phase of rentier capitalism that will only benefit few and remove the 'spirit' of the experiment.

What if, though, the funds inside staking wallets are made available for loan. The wallet holder will still have the rights to the 'raffle tickets' but the coins in question could be borrowed by whomever. The borrower would be 'short' the raffle tickets to the lender. Those rights to the tickets could be transferable and assignable becoming the seeds for crypto banknotes.

This is just a seed of an idea and I am sure there are flaws and also positives that I have not yet figured out.

What do you think of this bitcoin-based approach to loans? www.crowbe.com

hazenyc

sr. member

Activity: 668

Merit: 257

^^ And I am not talking about what BitShares is trying to do with creating BitAssets pegged to Fiat and paid interest because of leverage required by speculators. I am talking about a lending facility for real economic production and not (necessarily) speculation on the price of the underlying.

hazenyc

sr. member

Activity: 668

Merit: 257

There might be a way that PoS coins could operate as a distributed credit system making it akin to banking.
Right now staking wallets hoard money in order increase their chances of winning the 'raffle' that mints new PoS coins and adds them to the blockchain.
This is fundamentally flawed for a currency system since hoarding money causes a deflationary spiral and a liquidity crisis. It also moves the cryptocurrency ecosystem into a phase of rentier capitalism that will only benefit few and remove the 'spirit' of the experiment.

What if, though, the funds inside staking wallets are made available for loan. The wallet holder will still have the rights to the 'raffle tickets' but the coins in question could be borrowed by whomever. The borrower would be 'short' the raffle tickets to the lender. Those rights to the tickets could be transferable and assignable becoming the seeds for crypto banknotes.

This is just a seed of an idea and I am sure there are flaws and also positives that I have not yet figured out.

drotares

newbie

Activity: 7

Merit: 0

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on February 23, 2015, 09:59:50 AM

Quote from: indiemax on February 22, 2015, 04:41:49 PM

Quote from: oblivi on February 16, 2015, 12:05:30 PM

Quote from: manselr on February 16, 2015, 11:46:33 AM

Why the hell would you trust a Bitcoin bank if all the exchanges always end up fucked? whats the difference?

Just own your own BTC; have some responsibility for fuck sakes.

I trust the Winklevii brothers and their Gemini exchange, seems solid as hell.

until it goes wrong Grin

Well it's supposed to have all regulations needed to be considered a solid bank.
If Gemini fails too Bitcoin couldn't survive that hit.

How could you regulate a Bitcoin-based bank, don't you think that is like regulate the internet?
One of the challenges is to have bitcoin "exchange houses" to local currencies in poor countries. Considering that digital wallets are accessible from cellphones and these are already quite widespread.

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: indiemax on February 22, 2015, 04:41:49 PM

Quote from: oblivi on February 16, 2015, 12:05:30 PM

Quote from: manselr on February 16, 2015, 11:46:33 AM

Why the hell would you trust a Bitcoin bank if all the exchanges always end up fucked? whats the difference?

Just own your own BTC; have some responsibility for fuck sakes.

I trust the Winklevii brothers and their Gemini exchange, seems solid as hell.

until it goes wrong Grin

Well it's supposed to have all regulations needed to be considered a solid bank.
If Gemini fails too Bitcoin couldn't survive that hit.

indiemax

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Quote from: oblivi on February 16, 2015, 12:05:30 PM

Quote from: manselr on February 16, 2015, 11:46:33 AM

Why the hell would you trust a Bitcoin bank if all the exchanges always end up fucked? whats the difference?

Just own your own BTC; have some responsibility for fuck sakes.

I trust the Winklevii brothers and their Gemini exchange, seems solid as hell.

until it goes wrong Grin

BillyBobZorton

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Activity: 1204

Merit: 1028

Quote from: oblivi on February 20, 2015, 03:47:32 PM

Quote from: manselr on February 20, 2015, 12:16:53 PM

Quote from: Amph on February 19, 2015, 04:13:25 PM

bitcoin has already a banks, and this is your wallet, your personal bank, which is the best and most secure bank, if you know what you do

Some people just will never get their heads around having to be fully responsable of your own wealth storage, they will demand banks to feel safer.

Exactly. Most people have that mentality and nothing is going to change that I am afraid.

This. The main critique of bitcoin like the day on the CNN documentary is the never ending hacks in the exchanges.

drotares

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Quote from: hazenyc on February 19, 2015, 07:21:53 PM

Quote from: Amph on February 19, 2015, 04:13:25 PM

bitcoin has already a banks, and this is your wallet, your personal bank, which is the best and most secure bank, if you know what you do

a wallet is a bank the same way a piggy bank is a bank. What you are referring to is a vault perhaps.
A bank (as a business) is not a place to store cash, it is a place that issues loans and takes deposits. When you deposit money in the bank they don't actually have your money - instead your deposit is a claim to demand that amount of money. It shows up on the bank's balance sheet as a liability.

Because banks issues loans and deposits, I think new approaches could be developed with the Bitcoin's protocol. There are more than two billion of adults on the planet today without access to banks, credit cards, or to the mainstream financial system. Having a Bitcoin-based bank could be one solution.

I recommend to read this: http://www.quora.com/How-does-bitcoin-and-the-information-technology-that-makes-it-possible-have-implications-on-our-world-as-a-global-society

ajareselde

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Satoshi is rolling in his grave. #bitcoin

Quote from: Amph on February 19, 2015, 04:13:25 PM

bitcoin has already a banks, and this is your wallet, your personal bank, which is the best and most secure bank, if you know what you do

But the point being made was the bitcoin credit giver aka bitcoin bank, and i doubt there are no takers here. What would the differece be from existing banks would be is the real question,
since bitcoin, like any fiat fluctuates in value, and there would probably be some loosers in that game.
"Be you own bank" is just for your own funds, but getting loans is a different thing entirely.

oblivi

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Quote from: manselr on February 20, 2015, 12:16:53 PM

Quote from: Amph on February 19, 2015, 04:13:25 PM

bitcoin has already a banks, and this is your wallet, your personal bank, which is the best and most secure bank, if you know what you do

Some people just will never get their heads around having to be fully responsable of your own wealth storage, they will demand banks to feel safer.

Exactly. Most people have that mentality and nothing is going to change that I am afraid.

manselr

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Activity: 868

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Quote from: Amph on February 19, 2015, 04:13:25 PM

bitcoin has already a banks, and this is your wallet, your personal bank, which is the best and most secure bank, if you know what you do

Some people just will never get their heads around having to be fully responsable of your own wealth storage, they will demand banks to feel safer.

hazenyc

sr. member

Activity: 668

Merit: 257

Quote from: Amph on February 19, 2015, 04:13:25 PM

bitcoin has already a banks, and this is your wallet, your personal bank, which is the best and most secure bank, if you know what you do

a wallet is a bank the same way a piggy bank is a bank. What you are referring to is a vault perhaps.
A bank (as a business) is not a place to store cash, it is a place that issues loans and takes deposits. When you deposit money in the bank they don't actually have your money - instead your deposit is a claim to demand that amount of money. It shows up on the bank's balance sheet as a liability.

Amph

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bitcoin has already a banks, and this is your wallet, your personal bank, which is the best and most secure bank, if you know what you do

BillyBobZorton

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I would trust a bank only if it has the highest most solid regulation and whoever fucks up will get punished.

pereira4

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There's is a place for banks in teh bitcoin world, not everyone wants to have the responsability of securing their own entire wealth.

Topic: Bitcoin banks (Read 4882 times)