Not just in Argentina. It happened in Venezuela also and in other countries including Libya. This might also be happening in Hong Kong with the rising tension within their territory. All of these cases are giving their fiat a very uncertain value and future. And if they want to make sure that whatever money they have left will not end up worthless they need to convert them into something whose value will grow instead of decrease. Bitcoin is one great option of course.
Bitcoin will only be a safe haven when it is stable but it's not. Venezuela, Argentina and Hong Kong are not making bitcoin or any cryptocurrencies as safe haven because of a certain problem in their country, what they are doing is a mere saving, uniting, and storing of amount in a most volatile assent present now. That is not a safe haven, that is the only choice they have for now because of inflation and protests. But look at the price now even if some countries are going in with bitcoin, I've never seen such significant change in price for a quite long time. 
Topic: Bitcoin becoming a safehaven currency in Argentina - page 3. (Read 1682 times)
Not just in Argentina. It happened in Venezuela also and in other countries including Libya. This might also be happening in Hong Kong with the rising tension within their territory. All of these cases are giving their fiat a very uncertain value and future. And if they want to make sure that whatever money they have left will not end up worthless they need to convert them into something whose value will grow instead of decrease. Bitcoin is one great option of course.
right, some countries use bitcoin to overcome hyperinflation in their countries. the chaos of their country's economy makes their fiat money worthless, so that people come to live in poverty, indeed Hong Kong is a country that still has many problems today, and it is possible to lead to crypto 
Not just in Argentina. It happened in Venezuela also and in other countries including Libya. This might also be happening in Hong Kong with the rising tension within their territory. All of these cases are giving their fiat a very uncertain value and future. And if they want to make sure that whatever money they have left will not end up worthless they need to convert them into something whose value will grow instead of decrease. Bitcoin is one great option of course.
when the economic crisis occurs, the value of the national currency will fall and experience hyperinflation as happened in Venezuela and Argentina. they must look for alternative means of payment that are of relatively stable value and are not affected by inflation. Some countries affected by the crisis can not use US dollars because of sanctions from the United States so that the last solution so that they can survive they must use bitcoin for payment. so that now the adoption of bitcoin in a country that is experiencing a crisis continues to increase.
Bitcoins power to be out of reach from all governments failures is the reason why it was created in the first place. It was basically a back up plan for everyone after 2008 because that was a global crisis that was created by just bunch of guys in suits in a wall street office.
You may think how small they are in the grasp of things, just maybe 1000 people involved with the housing mortgage bubble at most, probably less of them that are worthy like CEO's and CFO's yet those guys literally almost bankrupted all of USA as in the biggest power on the earth economical and military wise and they actually hurt Greece+Spain+Italy type of huge countries as well. Now if bitcoin was around and people invested into bitcoin as much as they did to other stuff in those nations, they would have been safe even with economy going south.
You may think how small they are in the grasp of things, just maybe 1000 people involved with the housing mortgage bubble at most, probably less of them that are worthy like CEO's and CFO's yet those guys literally almost bankrupted all of USA as in the biggest power on the earth economical and military wise and they actually hurt Greece+Spain+Italy type of huge countries as well. Now if bitcoin was around and people invested into bitcoin as much as they did to other stuff in those nations, they would have been safe even with economy going south.
There are many countries like Argentina that are in crisis. Gold and Bitcoin can be a value retention tool for economically distressed countries. People have to take precautions against economic problems.
Both are not perfect solution to solving the problem of volatility. Bitcoin can go up or down by as much as 10% in a single day. You can't use such an asset as a store of value. Similarly, storing gold is not very easy. Storing it in the physical form can attract unwanted attention from criminals, especially in economically broke countries such as Venezuela and Argentine. Storing paper gold is also not the best option, as you can't trust the banks from these countries.
I don't get it that the volatility is felt as something bad. We need high volatility to reach 'our' highend goals of +$100k/coin to have any meaningful impact on the world economy.
edit: and it seems to be always better than a fiat paper currency, which devalues every 5 years by half.
There are many countries like Argentina that are in crisis. Gold and Bitcoin can be a value retention tool for economically distressed countries. People have to take precautions against economic problems.
Both are not perfect solution to solving the problem of volatility. Bitcoin can go up or down by as much as 10% in a single day. You can't use such an asset as a store of value. Similarly, storing gold is not very easy. Storing it in the physical form can attract unwanted attention from criminals, especially in economically broke countries such as Venezuela and Argentine. Storing paper gold is also not the best option, as you can't trust the banks from these countries.
I don't get it that the volatility is felt as something bad. We need high volatility to reach 'our' highend goals of +$100k/coin to have any meaningful impact on the world economy.
edit: and it seems to be always better than a fiat paper currency, which devalues every 5 years by half.
Interesting thread so far even if the risk of becoming a spam megathread is still latent 
So the restriction clearly isn't related to cryptocurrency volatility, but to the fact that if credit card users buy BTC e.g. on Coinbase with their cards, they do an exchange on the local forex market (normally, Peso -> US Dollar) before they can buy the Bitcoins because Coinbase won't accept Pesos, only dollars. This operation can contribute to a loss of reserves by the Central Bank, as you correctly wrote here:
Argentine people can, however, still buy Bitcoins without restrictions on the local market, with whatever payment means they want. The consequence is, obviously, that this will drive the local price higher than if we calculated a price based on the USD value and the USD/ARS exchange rate if demand is high enough. But that has already been discussed in the first posts here.
I made a thread with a related topic some weeks ago about the possibility that a high market price on a single currency (like now in Argentina, or 2017 in South Korea, or 2013 in China), if strong enough, could influence the USD/BTC price because of arbitrage movements.
Every Argentinian can buy max $300 every month since this is a new limit, and as far I know Argentina is not on Binance blacklist.
Only a little (pedantic) correction: It's a total of $200, because the 100 cash USD cannot be added to the 200 which can be bought using electronic means. So if you buy 200 electronically, you can't buy the 100 with cash. Here's an explanation in Spanish.In my opinion, the prohibition of purchasing cryptocurrency using a credit card is temporary. The government and the central bank take the policy with the aim of:
- Instability of the cryptocurrency market causes the highest risk when allowing the use of credit cards to purchase cryptocurrency. Concern about bad credit. So the bank assumes it's easier for customers to buy cryptocurrency than it is to pay credit card bills.
- The crypto market volatility is very high, banks are afraid that if there is a price decline like last year the debtor's ability to pay their bills also decreases.
There is no prohibition of purchasing cryptocurrency using credit cards. To be precise, the restriction says that Argentine banks need central bank approval if their clients want to use credit/debit cards to buy cryptocurrencies on foreign exchange sites.- Instability of the cryptocurrency market causes the highest risk when allowing the use of credit cards to purchase cryptocurrency. Concern about bad credit. So the bank assumes it's easier for customers to buy cryptocurrency than it is to pay credit card bills.
- The crypto market volatility is very high, banks are afraid that if there is a price decline like last year the debtor's ability to pay their bills also decreases.
So the restriction clearly isn't related to cryptocurrency volatility, but to the fact that if credit card users buy BTC e.g. on Coinbase with their cards, they do an exchange on the local forex market (normally, Peso -> US Dollar) before they can buy the Bitcoins because Coinbase won't accept Pesos, only dollars. This operation can contribute to a loss of reserves by the Central Bank, as you correctly wrote here:
While in Argentina itself, the ban on buying bitcoin with a credit card is intended to maintain the country's foreign exchange reserves.
Argentine people can, however, still buy Bitcoins without restrictions on the local market, with whatever payment means they want. The consequence is, obviously, that this will drive the local price higher than if we calculated a price based on the USD value and the USD/ARS exchange rate if demand is high enough. But that has already been discussed in the first posts here.
I made a thread with a related topic some weeks ago about the possibility that a high market price on a single currency (like now in Argentina, or 2017 in South Korea, or 2013 in China), if strong enough, could influence the USD/BTC price because of arbitrage movements.
There are many countries like Argentina that are in crisis. Gold and Bitcoin can be a value retention tool for economically distressed countries. People have to take precautions against economic problems.
Both are not perfect solution to solving the problem of volatility. Bitcoin can go up or down by as much as 10% in a single day. You can't use such an asset as a store of value. Similarly, storing gold is not very easy. Storing it in the physical form can attract unwanted attention from criminals, especially in economically broke countries such as Venezuela and Argentine. Storing paper gold is also not the best option, as you can't trust the banks from these countries.
It's proven that bitcoin really a safe haven against hyperinflation or failure governance.
A government that cannot maintain economic and political stability in the country is the one responsible for every loss and misery experienced by the community, hence people will choose to get the best way to overcome hardship including using cyptocurrency.
And that is one of the many reasons of why governments hate cryptocurrencies especially bitcoin, whenever a government finds itself facing economic problems they always employ the same solution which is to print as much currency as they want, and this is a very effective way to steal the wealth of their citizens.A government that cannot maintain economic and political stability in the country is the one responsible for every loss and misery experienced by the community, hence people will choose to get the best way to overcome hardship including using cyptocurrency.
But they cannot do this with bitcoin, if they print more currency then the price of bitcoin will just go up protecting all of those that are holding bitcoin from their manoeuvres and becoming a safe haven against inflation.
Bitcoin becoming a safehaven to a country because citizens are finding ways to help them individually when their own currency is struggling to survive. Other country are also trying to move in Bitcoin just like Venezuela.
But despite their size and their power the same rules applies to governments as everyone else and if you spend more money than what you earn sooner or later you'll get in trouble.
I've never heard of Ripio, and my question is can't Argentinians buy bitcoin on some other exchange if they need to? I assume Ripio is an online exchange and that Argentina's citizens aren't limited as to what crypto exchanges they can use (tho I could be wrong). Also that mark up doesn't seem too extreme to me. That sounds about like what you'd get if you were to buy bitcoin at an ATM.
Very interesting article, by the way. It sounds crazy to me that the gov't would limit the amount of dollars you could buy per month when the economy is suffering so badly. Hopefully bitcoin can give the people who live there an alternative to cash and that they'll stick with it in the future. This is exactly what bitcoin was made for.
Very interesting article, by the way. It sounds crazy to me that the gov't would limit the amount of dollars you could buy per month when the economy is suffering so badly. Hopefully bitcoin can give the people who live there an alternative to cash and that they'll stick with it in the future. This is exactly what bitcoin was made for.
They can use Localbitcoins like us. Venezuela has been suffering those "limits" since 2004, only recently they lifted most restrictions against the USD (up until a few months back, it was technically illegal to buy things with it but people were doing it anyway).
Of course the smartest thing to do now for them is go Bitcoin and then do whatever. Because they will skip all the restrictions that way. The government destroyed their fiat so people naturally wants to get rid of it, which the government immediately forbids. We know that tale very well here and its consequences.
Funny you mention authorized exchanges, we have that too here in theory. But, its not like they have stopped people from using the favored aforementioned Finnish exchange instead...
When you think something is "too extreme", its because you haven't lived on these parts... Don't forget, Ecuador and Bolivia banned Bitcoin, and Ecuador doesn't even have their own fiat, they use the USD... Hopefully the new Bolivian regime might change that... As for Argentina, as long as they go in the path against freedom, especially economic freedom, they have a very dim future, just look at us.
The more the State tries to "control", the worse things will get. The only good control, is no control but a completely free market.
There are many countries like Argentina that are in crisis. Gold and Bitcoin can be a value retention tool for economically distressed countries. People have to take precautions against economic problems.
I don't know what is wrong with these Latin American countries. They elect socialists to power and they indulge in all sort of freebie distribution and destroy the economy. Look at the case in Venezuela. Most of the issues can be resolved, if the subsidy on gasoline is removed and the prices are brought closer to the international rates. But the government doesn't want to do that.
No, not like that. I think this can happen in any country, where as long as the people can be tricked and enticed with the "instant economy" the prospective leaders will surely get it. Even more ironic is, when things have gotten very bad, the leaders will not admit their mistakes before and instead look for scapegoats.
Prefer leaders who have the principle to protect the country's economy by relying on what they do have.
It's proven that bitcoin really a safe haven against hyperinflation or failure governance.
A government that cannot maintain economic and political stability in the country is the one responsible for every loss and misery experienced by the community, hence people will choose to get the best way to overcome hardship including using cyptocurrency.
And that is one of the many reasons of why governments hate cryptocurrencies especially bitcoin, whenever a government finds itself facing economic problems they always employ the same solution which is to print as much currency as they want, and this is a very effective way to steal the wealth of their citizens.A government that cannot maintain economic and political stability in the country is the one responsible for every loss and misery experienced by the community, hence people will choose to get the best way to overcome hardship including using cyptocurrency.
But they cannot do this with bitcoin, if they print more currency then the price of bitcoin will just go up protecting all of those that are holding bitcoin from their manoeuvres and becoming a safe haven against inflation.
Bitcoin becoming a safehaven to a country because citizens are finding ways to help them individually when their own currency is struggling to survive. Other country are also trying to move in Bitcoin just like Venezuela.
https://www.newsbtc.com/2019/10/30/bitcoin-trades-at-large-premium-in-argentina-as-dollar-purchase-restrictions-set-in/
I guess the workaround is buying bitcoin and then taking a trip to another country where you can cash out in dollars using local bitcoins.
In most of the countries dollar isn't the legal tender and there is usually a limit on the amount of dollars you can keep in country where it isn't a legal tender. I guess the workaround is buying bitcoin and then taking a trip to another country where you can cash out in dollars using local bitcoins.
I doubt once you convert your bitcoin to dollar and then coming back to argentina where the currency is peso, it will make any sense at all. So, this method isn't feasible.
But yeah in many countries, crypto is becoming a safe haven because of the hyperinflation of the fiat currency. People are buying crypto to safeguard their funds.
It's proven that bitcoin really a safe haven against hyperinflation or failure governance.
A government that cannot maintain economic and political stability in the country is the one responsible for every loss and misery experienced by the community, hence people will choose to get the best way to overcome hardship including using cyptocurrency.
A government that cannot maintain economic and political stability in the country is the one responsible for every loss and misery experienced by the community, hence people will choose to get the best way to overcome hardship including using cyptocurrency.
Argentina's problem is very complex and acute because it is a legacy of the previous government. Bitcoin can indeed be a safe haven when inflation occurs but its role is not significant as a solution to resolve inflation or turn the wheels of the economy of a country trapped in a crisis. In the case of Argentina bitcoin is only an alternative type of payment but the government is fully aware that to suppress inflation it must keep the dollar from leaving Argentina. because the price of goods and services is calculated in dollars instead of the cryptocurrency.
The government must indeed be observant and responsive in formulating monetary and fiscal policies to overcome all economic problems that arise. Without intending to defend the government, natural conditions also triggered the Argentine economic crisis, the drought that caused commercial production of soybeans and other grains to decline so that it could not contribute to state income. Argentina is the world's largest soybean exporter and ranked third in the world's largest corn exporter.
The Argentine government is now trying to increase spending by focusing on social programs in order to revive domestic consumption and limit the outflow of dollars. In addition, the Fiscal sector is also used as a mainstay to increase state revenues including an increase in export taxes on grains. Application of a 30% tax on foreign currency purchases and write off taxes for savings in the form of pesos.
It's proven that bitcoin really a safe haven against hyperinflation or failure governance.
A government that cannot maintain economic and political stability in the country is the one responsible for every loss and misery experienced by the community, hence people will choose to get the best way to overcome hardship including using cyptocurrency.
And that is one of the many reasons of why governments hate cryptocurrencies especially bitcoin, whenever a government finds itself facing economic problems they always employ the same solution which is to print as much currency as they want, and this is a very effective way to steal the wealth of their citizens.A government that cannot maintain economic and political stability in the country is the one responsible for every loss and misery experienced by the community, hence people will choose to get the best way to overcome hardship including using cyptocurrency.
But they cannot do this with bitcoin, if they print more currency then the price of bitcoin will just go up protecting all of those that are holding bitcoin from their manoeuvres and becoming a safe haven against inflation.
Bitcoin becoming a safehaven to a country because citizens are finding ways to help them individually when their own currency is struggling to survive. Other country are also trying to move in Bitcoin just like Venezuela.
with the occurrence of hyper inflation, of course, make their currencies worthless, when cryptocurrency arises and becomes an alternative for payment. but this is also not without risk. with large fluctuations, of course it will be difficult when working with other countries, because not many countries use it
indeed, currently not many countries use Bitcoin or legalize it, but if you are in Argentina then you will buy Bitcoin for your safehaven assets. They don't think anymore if Bitcoin has a big risk, all they think about is how to maintain the value of their assets at that time. It's proven that bitcoin really a safe haven against hyperinflation or failure governance.
A government that cannot maintain economic and political stability in the country is the one responsible for every loss and misery experienced by the community, hence people will choose to get the best way to overcome hardship including using cyptocurrency.
And that is one of the many reasons of why governments hate cryptocurrencies especially bitcoin, whenever a government finds itself facing economic problems they always employ the same solution which is to print as much currency as they want, and this is a very effective way to steal the wealth of their citizens.A government that cannot maintain economic and political stability in the country is the one responsible for every loss and misery experienced by the community, hence people will choose to get the best way to overcome hardship including using cyptocurrency.
But they cannot do this with bitcoin, if they print more currency then the price of bitcoin will just go up protecting all of those that are holding bitcoin from their manoeuvres and becoming a safe haven against inflation.
It's proven that bitcoin really a safe haven against hyperinflation or failure governance.
A government that cannot maintain economic and political stability in the country is the one responsible for every loss and misery experienced by the community, hence people will choose to get the best way to overcome hardship including using cyptocurrency.
This isn't happening with Argentina alone, going through most of the countries facing hyperinflation I believe people from Zimbabwe, Venezuela prefer cryptocurrency to be a safehaven for their hard earned wealth. As days pass the value keeps declining, but with cryptocurrency even after fall there is possible chances of growth. This makes people prefer cryptocurrency as safehaven than more strong fiat of other countries.A government that cannot maintain economic and political stability in the country is the one responsible for every loss and misery experienced by the community, hence people will choose to get the best way to overcome hardship including using cyptocurrency.
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