Gridcoin is a good initiative https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gridcoin-grc-first-coin-utilizing-boinc-official-thread-324118
However I think it just too complicated right now, you have to be mining their scrybt coin and then at the same time you have to run the BOINC client and then the block reward is dependent on your BOINC client utilization.
They should just build the gridcoin mining into the BOINC client period, that way everyone that participates in the world community grid network gets rewarded with gridcoins
Topic: Bitcoin + Boinc - A truly revolution? - page 2. (Read 4330 times)
Even if this has been discussed many times, I couldn't agree with the sentiment more.
The insane amounts of computing power being developed could be put towards curing cancer, and AIDS, and other folding@home projects.
Obviously saying "BOINC runs in the background" is pointless, because the point of this thread is dedicating 100% of the computing power to BOINC. Not idle time background power.
If you want to get rich, find a way to take the obsolete mining equipment and put it to use with BOINC.
There must be some way. Even if its just providing a service that collects / buys mining rigs from people, so they don't get split up, sold on ebay, or tossed in the trash.
Bitcoin is going to fuel computing power innovation like we've never seen in the history of computing.
I realize mining technology doesn't equal BOINC technology ... but what a waste if we can't harness the old hardware for BOINC.
The insane amounts of computing power being developed could be put towards curing cancer, and AIDS, and other folding@home projects.
Obviously saying "BOINC runs in the background" is pointless, because the point of this thread is dedicating 100% of the computing power to BOINC. Not idle time background power.
If you want to get rich, find a way to take the obsolete mining equipment and put it to use with BOINC.
There must be some way. Even if its just providing a service that collects / buys mining rigs from people, so they don't get split up, sold on ebay, or tossed in the trash.
Bitcoin is going to fuel computing power innovation like we've never seen in the history of computing.
I realize mining technology doesn't equal BOINC technology ... but what a waste if we can't harness the old hardware for BOINC.
The mining subsidy for Gridcoin is calculated in a different way now. %50 is coming from the cpu utilization and the other %50 is coming from the average daily credits.
Gridcoin is NOT just another scrypt coin!!!!
People usually start using Boinc and then they forget about it or loose interest. If there is a financial incentive people will be a lot more willing to continue using it. That is why Gridcoin is not just another scrypt coin. Go and get the client and see how much work has been put into this coin.
Gridcoin is NOT just another scrypt coin!!!!
People usually start using Boinc and then they forget about it or loose interest. If there is a financial incentive people will be a lot more willing to continue using it. That is why Gridcoin is not just another scrypt coin. Go and get the client and see how much work has been put into this coin.
The problem of combining useful computation with a proof-of-work blockchain is far from trivial.
The idea behind the proof-of-work done by Bitcoin (and its array of clones) is that the computational problem that miners try to solve and its solution depend on the transactions in the block (among other things). It is precisely this property that makes transactions included in mined blocks almost impossible to reverse, as different block-contents mean that the proof-of-work has to be redone.
Projects like BOINC deliver units of work to its users with specifics of what has to be computed. The computer then performs the calculations and returns them to BOINC. No matter exactly what is being calculated, it is predetermined by a centralized organization and not dependent on unpredictable data such as transactions.
The solution of a proof-of-work should be hard to find, but easy to verify. Each node that receives a block should be able to verify its correctness with relatively small effort. Hashing works well for this, because a verification of the hash takes only a single computation of the hash-function, which is very fast. A BOINC project could consist of running a relatively slow simulation of a, say, a molecule, rather than a brute-forcing calculation like hash-function proof-of-work. This means that if a BOINC-related computation would be used as proof-of-work, the solution may not be quickly verifiable by other nodes, which would make block propagation very slow.
Finally, the difficulty of the computation needs to be adjustable based on network hashrate. With hashing, the approach is obvious, but how do you apply variable difficulty to an arbitrary computation?
GridCoin is hailed as a "useful" coin because it's coupled with BOINC. Sadly, the integration isn't as advanced as one might think. GridCoin is, in essence, just another Scrypt-coin that uses the regular proof-of-work hashing to secure its blockchain. What makes it different is that the block reward is higher if BOINC is running during the mining process. This doesn't make GridCoin much better than mining any other Scrypt-coin and leaving BOINC running. Scrypt-mining uses the GPU, leaving the CPU free for BOINC computations. If you mine GridCoin for maximum profits, you use both your GPU and CPU.
Typical distributed computing projects require a central organization to collect and verify contributions to prevent cheating. It's possible for such an organization to reward its users with some form of crypto-currency, but this currency would still need it's own miners to secure its blockchain. There may be a way to seemlessly integrate useful computations into a proof-of-work scheme, but as I said at the start of this post: It's far from trivial.
The idea behind the proof-of-work done by Bitcoin (and its array of clones) is that the computational problem that miners try to solve and its solution depend on the transactions in the block (among other things). It is precisely this property that makes transactions included in mined blocks almost impossible to reverse, as different block-contents mean that the proof-of-work has to be redone.
Projects like BOINC deliver units of work to its users with specifics of what has to be computed. The computer then performs the calculations and returns them to BOINC. No matter exactly what is being calculated, it is predetermined by a centralized organization and not dependent on unpredictable data such as transactions.
The solution of a proof-of-work should be hard to find, but easy to verify. Each node that receives a block should be able to verify its correctness with relatively small effort. Hashing works well for this, because a verification of the hash takes only a single computation of the hash-function, which is very fast. A BOINC project could consist of running a relatively slow simulation of a, say, a molecule, rather than a brute-forcing calculation like hash-function proof-of-work. This means that if a BOINC-related computation would be used as proof-of-work, the solution may not be quickly verifiable by other nodes, which would make block propagation very slow.
Finally, the difficulty of the computation needs to be adjustable based on network hashrate. With hashing, the approach is obvious, but how do you apply variable difficulty to an arbitrary computation?
GridCoin is hailed as a "useful" coin because it's coupled with BOINC. Sadly, the integration isn't as advanced as one might think. GridCoin is, in essence, just another Scrypt-coin that uses the regular proof-of-work hashing to secure its blockchain. What makes it different is that the block reward is higher if BOINC is running during the mining process. This doesn't make GridCoin much better than mining any other Scrypt-coin and leaving BOINC running. Scrypt-mining uses the GPU, leaving the CPU free for BOINC computations. If you mine GridCoin for maximum profits, you use both your GPU and CPU.
Typical distributed computing projects require a central organization to collect and verify contributions to prevent cheating. It's possible for such an organization to reward its users with some form of crypto-currency, but this currency would still need it's own miners to secure its blockchain. There may be a way to seemlessly integrate useful computations into a proof-of-work scheme, but as I said at the start of this post: It's far from trivial.
computingforgood.org already does this (it is a distribution mechanism for XRP, where you apparently found TradeFortress' "description" of it) and there are 2 altcoin projects that also try something like that.
The power consumption estimate is likely far off, as nowadays BTC are probably mined with ASICs almost exclusively (even large botnets do not make much sense any more for SHA256 coins). BOINC also is a generic infrastructure project and does not equal "meaningful work" in any way.
The power consumption estimate is likely far off, as nowadays BTC are probably mined with ASICs almost exclusively (even large botnets do not make much sense any more for SHA256 coins). BOINC also is a generic infrastructure project and does not equal "meaningful work" in any way.
Bitcoin mining is solving a real problem. If you've not worked out what that is, start at bitcoin 101, page 1.
There's really no conflict here. Let the miners mine away; that requires special, dedicated hardware, anyway. And let EVERYONE run BOINC humanitarian tasks on all their PCs, too. Projects like World Community Grid (worldcommunitygrid.org). BOINC runs unobtrusively in the background, 24/7.
Quote
why we don't use this computacional power to solve real problems in our planet?
well, economy ... is a problem for people (but not for banks and government).
so ... solve economy "problem" is more easy in time.
retrieve all money to a complet vault controled by nothing except "people".
Yes, I understand your point of view and believe that too. But we are wasting time, energy and money while we don't adapt cryptocurrencies to do this data processing.
This has been discussed numerous times.
See eg
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-the-sciencecoin-project-initial-planning-phase-197000
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/curecoin-foldinghome-team-2000-dgc-in-bounty-73013-193084
:-)
Searching using SETI or folding or ... Shows a ton more.
See eg
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-the-sciencecoin-project-initial-planning-phase-197000
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/curecoin-foldinghome-team-2000-dgc-in-bounty-73013-193084
:-)
Searching using SETI or folding or ... Shows a ton more.
Thanks for your comment and links! (:
But I'm nothing talk about new currencies, I'm talking about adapt Bitcoin for this tasks - how this can be done and why this wasn't done yet is my main question. It was already discussed numerous times, but I didn't find any results. In a practical way, nothing was done.
Later I will search again for 'folding@home' and 'boinc', thanks.
P.S:
ScienceCoin appears to be deactived, no new update/commit to Github in 8 months.
I don't understand this topic about Curecoin. I'm a programmer, if I can't understand the topic (don't find any useful information in this topic), how we can expect "normal" people will understand this currency project? They also don't have a good home page explaining the project, just a ugly forums where I didn't find any useful information about what is this project.
The question and discussions persist, can Bitcoin be adapted to this new 'design / philosophy'?
The problem of combining useful computation with a proof-of-work blockchain is far from trivial.
The idea behind the proof-of-work done by Bitcoin (and its array of clones) is that the computational problem that miners try to solve and its solution depend on the transactions in the block (among other things). It is precisely this property that makes transactions included in mined blocks almost impossible to reverse, as different block-contents mean that the proof-of-work has to be redone.
Projects like BOINC deliver units of work to its users with specifics of what has to be computed. The computer then performs the calculations and returns them to BOINC. No matter exactly what is being calculated, it is predetermined by a centralized organization and not dependent on unpredictable data such as transactions.
The solution of a proof-of-work should be hard to find, but easy to verify. Each node that receives a block should be able to verify its correctness with relatively small effort. Hashing works well for this, because a verification of the hash takes only a single computation of the hash-function, which is very fast. A BOINC project could consist of running a relatively slow simulation of a, say, a molecule, rather than a brute-forcing calculation like hash-function proof-of-work. This means that if a BOINC-related computation would be used as proof-of-work, the solution may not be quickly verifiable by other nodes, which would make block propagation very slow.
Finally, the difficulty of the computation needs to be adjustable based on network hashrate. With hashing, the approach is obvious, but how do you apply variable difficulty to an arbitrary computation?
GridCoin is hailed as a "useful" coin because it's coupled with BOINC. Sadly, the integration isn't as advanced as one might think. GridCoin is, in essence, just another Scrypt-coin that uses the regular proof-of-work hashing to secure its blockchain. What makes it different is that the block reward is higher if BOINC is running during the mining process. This doesn't make GridCoin much better than mining any other Scrypt-coin and leaving BOINC running. Scrypt-mining uses the GPU, leaving the CPU free for BOINC computations. If you mine GridCoin for maximum profits, you use both your GPU and CPU.
Typical distributed computing projects require a central organization to collect and verify contributions to prevent cheating. It's possible for such an organization to reward its users with some form of crypto-currency, but this currency would still need it's own miners to secure its blockchain. There may be a way to seemlessly integrate useful computations into a proof-of-work scheme, but as I said at the start of this post: It's far from trivial.
The idea behind the proof-of-work done by Bitcoin (and its array of clones) is that the computational problem that miners try to solve and its solution depend on the transactions in the block (among other things). It is precisely this property that makes transactions included in mined blocks almost impossible to reverse, as different block-contents mean that the proof-of-work has to be redone.
Projects like BOINC deliver units of work to its users with specifics of what has to be computed. The computer then performs the calculations and returns them to BOINC. No matter exactly what is being calculated, it is predetermined by a centralized organization and not dependent on unpredictable data such as transactions.
The solution of a proof-of-work should be hard to find, but easy to verify. Each node that receives a block should be able to verify its correctness with relatively small effort. Hashing works well for this, because a verification of the hash takes only a single computation of the hash-function, which is very fast. A BOINC project could consist of running a relatively slow simulation of a, say, a molecule, rather than a brute-forcing calculation like hash-function proof-of-work. This means that if a BOINC-related computation would be used as proof-of-work, the solution may not be quickly verifiable by other nodes, which would make block propagation very slow.
Finally, the difficulty of the computation needs to be adjustable based on network hashrate. With hashing, the approach is obvious, but how do you apply variable difficulty to an arbitrary computation?
GridCoin is hailed as a "useful" coin because it's coupled with BOINC. Sadly, the integration isn't as advanced as one might think. GridCoin is, in essence, just another Scrypt-coin that uses the regular proof-of-work hashing to secure its blockchain. What makes it different is that the block reward is higher if BOINC is running during the mining process. This doesn't make GridCoin much better than mining any other Scrypt-coin and leaving BOINC running. Scrypt-mining uses the GPU, leaving the CPU free for BOINC computations. If you mine GridCoin for maximum profits, you use both your GPU and CPU.
Typical distributed computing projects require a central organization to collect and verify contributions to prevent cheating. It's possible for such an organization to reward its users with some form of crypto-currency, but this currency would still need it's own miners to secure its blockchain. There may be a way to seemlessly integrate useful computations into a proof-of-work scheme, but as I said at the start of this post: It's far from trivial.
This has been discussed numerous times.
See eg
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-the-sciencecoin-project-initial-planning-phase-197000
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/curecoin-foldinghome-team-2000-dgc-in-bounty-73013-193084
:-)
Searching using SETI or folding or ... Shows a ton more.
See eg
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-the-sciencecoin-project-initial-planning-phase-197000
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/curecoin-foldinghome-team-2000-dgc-in-bounty-73013-193084
:-)
Searching using SETI or folding or ... Shows a ton more.
Quote
why we don't use this computacional power to solve real problems in our planet?
well, economy ... is a problem for people (but not for banks and government).
so ... solve economy "problem" is more easy in time.
retrieve all money to a complet vault controled by nothing except "people".
Bitcoin - Economic Revolution
I thought create this post a lot of time ago, but just now I have courage to really post it.
I thought create this post a lot of time ago, but just now I have courage to really post it.
Please, read full text, you will not regret. Everyone knows we're really making a economic revolution. I must say, I'm left-wing (for many reasons, like I don't like see people starving while another minoritary people are swimming in golden pools), but I really trust that we're going to a great revolution, and any revolution is valid. Maybe in future, with Bitcoin, we can solve a lot of social problems of our world. Now we're going to where I want...
Use mining power to solve real problems
According Ripple website, "it is estimated that bitcoin is using approximately 23,312 megawatt hours per day (see electric consumption at blockchain.info/stats) of electric for block solving algorithms". Another important information is that bitcoin is the most powerful supercomputer in the world (this topic).
I was wondering, why we don't use this computacional power to solve real problems in our planet? If we use this power to process data for projects like Folding@home and Boinc, this way we are helping scientists and directly, the world, studying diseases, mathematical, physical theorems, searching for extraterrestrial life, find solutions to problems not solvable today and MUCH more. Why no one asks about it? Why can't we create two of the greatest revolutions the world has ever seen, and at same time?
A little more real.
I want know, why Bitcoin community don't talk about that? We really can change the world, for ever. We're doing the hardest thing, we're creating a decentralized currency that is being used by a lot of people / stores. We just need adapt what we have to solve real problems, with the power we're using to mine Bitcoin. The spent time studying and implementing this adaptation don't worth?
I want know, what's the real problem about implement it? It need be implemented in Bitcoin core or just in the mining softwares? It's possible integrate Bitcoin with Boinc / Folding@Home projects? If not, why we don't create our own project, based on Bitcoin limitations? It is not worth enough for you to at least be studied thoroughly?
Am I going crazy or are we putting our electricity in the trash while hundred thousands people die?
Already see (discarded):
- Ripple Coin - This site tell that this is a scam (centralized currency)
- "Bitcoin vs boinc discussion" - In my opinion, this topic don't is a good quality topic. And no one give this topic the deserved attention.
- Gridcoin - A friend told me read something about this currency be another scam (someone can confirm?)
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