price will go up, when it will.... no need to hurry or rush
patience is key
Topic: Bitcoin BULL/Rally Forming? - page 2. (Read 3550 times)
bahahaha! Iluvpie60 thinks that companies accepting Bitcoin are increasing the supply of Bitcoin
It appears basic economics was thrown right out the window of the WTC7 Penthouse
It appears basic economics was thrown right out the window of the WTC7 Penthouse
Quote me where I said that. L2 read.
nice edit to add the words "places to use". just a shame for you that we seen the pre-edit with our own eyes.
Quote
In other words when looking at a rough supply/demand chart, US, the PEOPLE, are the demand. The companies are the supply. There is TOO MUCH supply coming in vs demand coming in, to make the price go up right now.
care to edit the part highlighted in red too?
You took that out of context, read everything in order and then it flows. You can't just take that part out because then it makes it "seem like" I am saying companies are the supply of bitcoin(which i didnt). The reason I worded it that way is because companies do not demand bitcoin, they supply products which are paid for in a nominal value such as monetary or crytpo, which is then implies bitcoin is the demand in the aforementioned example.
iluvpie60 appears to be playing word acrobatics to obfuscate things.
I'm not saying he's a troll or a shill, but if it's the case that he is speaking his mind from a genuine disposition, than he simply just doesn't have any foundation whatsoever in basic economics.
OK, So that there is NO FURTHER CONFUSION. This is what iluvpie60
states in his own exact words, completely in context.
"Are you joking or are you actually this confused? We are not talking about the supply of BTC keeping the price at X. We are talking about the Supply of companies accepting the Demand of BTC keeping the price at x."
and
"You need to improve your reading comprehension. There is too much supply so price of BTC has been going down. There are too many places to spend the BTC compared to the people willing to spend the BTC(demand)."
So iluvpie60 is clearly declaring in all of his infinite wisdom that since there are more places to spend Bitcoin than people willing to spend than the price of bitcoin goes down.
OK, let's use another financial asset to state the equivalent. Let's use Gold. And let's say that there is X amount of companies who are wiling to accept Gold for their products and services and Y amount of Gold owners
who are willing to spend Gold.
If X (Amount of companies/people who want Gold (at least as a means of exchange) and are thus willing to accept Gold) is Greater than Y (the number of people who are willing to spend Gold) How can any sane person state that the price of Gold is going to go down??
In both examples, there are less people wiling to spend an asset than there are people who would otherwise be willing to accept it for trade.
THEREFORE, Price must go up
So why is the price of bitcoin going down? Markets go up, markets go down, there could be a plethora of reasons why, but none of which have anything to do with reasons thus stated by iluvpie60
you do know that apart from small mom and pop stores using coinbase.
the majority of merchants are beginning to hoard or atleast the payment gateway(bitpay mainly) are using non public exchange methods. (as i said in earlier post). and here is another point. when these large hoards are ready to sell. they wont do it on bitstamp(AML large payment flags), they wont do it on btc-e(AML large payment flags). they probably wont do it on coinbase as a large hoard sell-off would devalue their own holdings. instead these merchants would do private trading.
so the only worry you really have in regards to merchants, is the small merchants that use coinbase that dont hoard.
on average for every 1btc that would have been sold on an exchange to cash-out to fiat and then buy goods, less than 20% of bitcoin would end up on an exchange if customers spent that btc with merchants instead.
so stop trying to say merchants are bad for bitcoin!
the majority of merchants are beginning to hoard or atleast the payment gateway(bitpay mainly) are using non public exchange methods. (as i said in earlier post). and here is another point. when these large hoards are ready to sell. they wont do it on bitstamp(AML large payment flags), they wont do it on btc-e(AML large payment flags). they probably wont do it on coinbase as a large hoard sell-off would devalue their own holdings. instead these merchants would do private trading.
so the only worry you really have in regards to merchants, is the small merchants that use coinbase that dont hoard.
on average for every 1btc that would have been sold on an exchange to cash-out to fiat and then buy goods, less than 20% of bitcoin would end up on an exchange if customers spent that btc with merchants instead.
so stop trying to say merchants are bad for bitcoin!
well i agree with you there. merchants are not bad for bitcoin, there is just a lot of merchants accepting it before the majority of people are using it. we expect to have this huge bitcoin price boom but we don't have the bitcoin users to get it there. the infrastructure is being laid faster and faster on the supply side(vendor adoption) and the demand is seemingly slowing down(people paying in btc). right now as btc slowly is dipping down it would be in the best interests of most merchants to hold i agree with you there, but t hat is only if they think the btc will be worth more. there is a lot of pessimism lately so who knows.
dont worry relax.. it seems your a FIAT investor, looking for a quick spike to cash out within the month. im sorry but bitcoin is a long term project. once the ground work of infrastructure is settled and payment gateways are all military grade security and liability insured.(not script kiddies php code) these companies will do the advertising and get the consumers/average joe into bitcoin.
just watch what happens when for instance the winklevoss ETF opens up. you'll see
just be patient
oh and by the way, dont be a FIAT investor as the dollar is going to go 'Zimbabwe' on your ass. where a loaf of bread will cost you $1000 in a few years. so no point cashing out btc below $1000.. unless its the best loaf of bread in the world
you do know that apart from small mom and pop stores using coinbase.
the majority of merchants are beginning to hoard or atleast the payment gateway(bitpay mainly) are using non public exchange methods. (as i said in earlier post). and here is another point. when these large hoards are ready to sell. they wont do it on bitstamp(AML large payment flags), they wont do it on btc-e(AML large payment flags). they probably wont do it on coinbase as a large hoard sell-off would devalue their own holdings. instead these merchants would do private trading.
so the only worry you really have in regards to merchants, is the small merchants that use coinbase that dont hoard.
on average for every 1btc that would have been sold on an exchange to cash-out to fiat and then buy goods, less than 20% of bitcoin would end up on an exchange if customers spent that btc with merchants instead.
so stop trying to say merchants are bad for bitcoin!
the majority of merchants are beginning to hoard or atleast the payment gateway(bitpay mainly) are using non public exchange methods. (as i said in earlier post). and here is another point. when these large hoards are ready to sell. they wont do it on bitstamp(AML large payment flags), they wont do it on btc-e(AML large payment flags). they probably wont do it on coinbase as a large hoard sell-off would devalue their own holdings. instead these merchants would do private trading.
so the only worry you really have in regards to merchants, is the small merchants that use coinbase that dont hoard.
on average for every 1btc that would have been sold on an exchange to cash-out to fiat and then buy goods, less than 20% of bitcoin would end up on an exchange if customers spent that btc with merchants instead.
so stop trying to say merchants are bad for bitcoin!
well i agree with you there. merchants are not bad for bitcoin, there is just a lot of merchants accepting it before the majority of people are using it. we expect to have this huge bitcoin price boom but we don't have the bitcoin users to get it there. the infrastructure is being laid faster and faster on the supply side(vendor adoption) and the demand is seemingly slowing down(people paying in btc). right now as btc slowly is dipping down it would be in the best interests of most merchants to hold i agree with you there, but t hat is only if they think the btc will be worth more. there is a lot of pessimism lately so who knows.
I expect a slide to $500-$520 and then a rebound to the $800 level .. just my opinion
you do know that apart from small mom and pop stores using coinbase.
the majority of merchants are beginning to hoard or atleast the payment gateway(bitpay mainly) are using non public exchange methods. (as i said in earlier post). and here is another point. when these large hoards are ready to sell. they wont do it on bitstamp(AML large payment flags), they wont do it on btc-e(AML large payment flags). they probably wont do it on coinbase as a large hoard sell-off would devalue their own holdings. instead these merchants would do private trading.
so the only worry you really have in regards to merchants, is the small merchants that use coinbase that dont hoard.
on average for every 1btc that would have been sold on an exchange to cash-out to fiat and then buy goods, less than 20% of bitcoin would end up on an exchange if customers spent that btc with merchants instead.
so stop trying to say merchants are bad for bitcoin!
the majority of merchants are beginning to hoard or atleast the payment gateway(bitpay mainly) are using non public exchange methods. (as i said in earlier post). and here is another point. when these large hoards are ready to sell. they wont do it on bitstamp(AML large payment flags), they wont do it on btc-e(AML large payment flags). they probably wont do it on coinbase as a large hoard sell-off would devalue their own holdings. instead these merchants would do private trading.
so the only worry you really have in regards to merchants, is the small merchants that use coinbase that dont hoard.
on average for every 1btc that would have been sold on an exchange to cash-out to fiat and then buy goods, less than 20% of bitcoin would end up on an exchange if customers spent that btc with merchants instead.
so stop trying to say merchants are bad for bitcoin!
bahahaha! Iluvpie60 thinks that companies accepting Bitcoin are increasing the supply of Bitcoin
It appears basic economics was thrown right out the window of the WTC7 Penthouse
It appears basic economics was thrown right out the window of the WTC7 Penthouse
Quote me where I said that. L2 read.
nice edit to add the words "places to use". just a shame for you that we seen the pre-edit with our own eyes.
Quote
In other words when looking at a rough supply/demand chart, US, the PEOPLE, are the demand. The companies are the supply. There is TOO MUCH supply coming in vs demand coming in, to make the price go up right now.
care to edit the part highlighted in red too?
You took that out of context, read everything in order and then it flows. You can't just take that part out because then it makes it "seem like" I am saying companies are the supply of bitcoin(which i didnt). The reason I worded it that way is because companies do not demand bitcoin, they supply products which are paid for in a nominal value such as monetary or crytpo, which is then implies bitcoin is the demand in the aforementioned example.
which is why I later said...
the Supply of companies accepting the Demand of BTC keeping the price at x.
the Supply of companies accepting the Demand of BTC keeping the price at x.
bahahaha! Iluvpie60 thinks that companies accepting Bitcoin are increasing the supply of Bitcoin
It appears basic economics was thrown right out the window of the WTC7 Penthouse
It appears basic economics was thrown right out the window of the WTC7 Penthouse
Quote me where I said that. L2 read.
nice edit to add the words "places to use". just a shame for you that we seen the pre-edit with our own eyes.
Quote
In other words when looking at a rough supply/demand chart, US, the PEOPLE, are the demand. The companies are the supply. There is TOO MUCH supply coming in vs demand coming in, to make the price go up right now.
care to edit the part highlighted in red too?
in his quote I say Places to use also... bahahaha! Iluvpie60 thinks that companies accepting Bitcoin are increasing the supply of Bitcoin
It appears basic economics was thrown right out the window of the WTC7 Penthouse
It appears basic economics was thrown right out the window of the WTC7 Penthouse
Quote me where I said that. L2 read.
nice edit to add the words "places to use". just a shame for you that we seen the pre-edit with our own eyes.
Quote
In other words when looking at a rough supply/demand chart, US, the PEOPLE, are the demand. The companies are the supply. There is TOO MUCH supply coming in vs demand coming in, to make the price go up right now.
care to edit the part highlighted in red too?
bahahaha! Iluvpie60 thinks that companies accepting Bitcoin are increasing the supply of Bitcoin
It appears basic economics was thrown right out the window of the WTC7 Penthouse
It appears basic economics was thrown right out the window of the WTC7 Penthouse
Quote me where I said that. L2 read.
bahahaha! Iluvpie60 thinks that companies accepting Bitcoin are increasing the supply of Bitcoin
It appears basic economics was thrown right out the window of the WTC7 Penthouse
It appears basic economics was thrown right out the window of the WTC7 Penthouse
As i see BTC price is keeping move down since the first week of the month is still value about $630 till $650. But currently become lower than $600 for 1 btc.
iluvepie60:
im sorry but here is some minor corrections
1. bitpay doesnt sell to the exchange markets. they have private investors throwing dollars at them and getting the bitcoin in return away from the markets. bitpay only uses the 'price' as a guide to valuate how much to give to investors in return for their investments. however if you mentioned coinbase.. then you would have had a point about merchants getting coin and immediately selling back to fiat.
2. even if there were 1 merchant or 500,000 merchants the number does not make an impact. if people do not want to use their btc because they are in a holding pattern.. they will hold. and simply use their fiat bank accounts to buy goods the old fashioned way.
3. overstock are hoarding coins, not selling them... need i explain more about this point?
4. instead of last year when people would sell coins on exchanges to cash out, they are now spending with merchants. so at this point(A) less coins are being sold on exchanges. once a merchant receives them 100% of coin does not hit an exchange(point B) so imagine these 2 scenario's
s: 1000 people want to buy a $600 computer from bestbuy in august 2012, they have to cashout 3btc($200x3) each and then walk into store to buy a computer.
s: this year 1000 want to buy a $600 computer from overstock, they spend 1btc each. none of which hits an exchange at point A or B. meaning no exchange sell-off.
5. the reason the prices are more stable and not seeing rapid spikes, is because large investors are not using exchanges anymore (point1 explains one reason why) the other is that exchanges are now more AML compliant so people cant simply throw over $10k at a wire transfer like before. thus exchanges are now doing little trades not large 200-1000 bitcoin trades in one order. so the volatility has slowed down and larger trades are done privately so you wont see large dumps from payment gateways, or large spikes by investors.
6. to cause a $50 price decline in any 1 day would take a couple thousands bitcoins to be sold in a fast and continuous fashion. that would mean 1000 people will need to buy a dell PC in only a few hours. yet so far dell may get 200,000 deals a year, (after all dell CEO got over excited about a 85btc order in one day, so its expected that is the largest amount of btc they have seen so far)
have a nice day
im sorry but here is some minor corrections
1. bitpay doesnt sell to the exchange markets. they have private investors throwing dollars at them and getting the bitcoin in return away from the markets. bitpay only uses the 'price' as a guide to valuate how much to give to investors in return for their investments. however if you mentioned coinbase.. then you would have had a point about merchants getting coin and immediately selling back to fiat.
2. even if there were 1 merchant or 500,000 merchants the number does not make an impact. if people do not want to use their btc because they are in a holding pattern.. they will hold. and simply use their fiat bank accounts to buy goods the old fashioned way.
3. overstock are hoarding coins, not selling them... need i explain more about this point?
4. instead of last year when people would sell coins on exchanges to cash out, they are now spending with merchants. so at this point(A) less coins are being sold on exchanges. once a merchant receives them 100% of coin does not hit an exchange(point B) so imagine these 2 scenario's
s: 1000 people want to buy a $600 computer from bestbuy in august 2012, they have to cashout 3btc($200x3) each and then walk into store to buy a computer.
s: this year 1000 want to buy a $600 computer from overstock, they spend 1btc each. none of which hits an exchange at point A or B. meaning no exchange sell-off.
5. the reason the prices are more stable and not seeing rapid spikes, is because large investors are not using exchanges anymore (point1 explains one reason why) the other is that exchanges are now more AML compliant so people cant simply throw over $10k at a wire transfer like before. thus exchanges are now doing little trades not large 200-1000 bitcoin trades in one order. so the volatility has slowed down and larger trades are done privately so you wont see large dumps from payment gateways, or large spikes by investors.
6. to cause a $50 price decline in any 1 day would take a couple thousands bitcoins to be sold in a fast and continuous fashion. that would mean 1000 people will need to buy a dell PC in only a few hours. yet so far dell may get 200,000 deals a year, (after all dell CEO got over excited about a 85btc order in one day, so its expected that is the largest amount of btc they have seen so far)
Quote
Recieved PowerEdge server order @ http://dell.com for more than 85 #bitcoin (~$50K USD) http://dell.com/bitcoin #Dellbitcoin
have a nice day
Yes, wrong section, but returning IT I think that the price will drop again before rising.
So I seen we've climbed overall from around $400 to $600 with bitcoin, then stopped at around $600. If it repeats, then we should be at $800 soon enough.
This belongs in the speculation sub-section. Flagging for move. So I seen we've climbed overall from around $400 to $600 with bitcoin, then stopped at around $600. If it repeats, then we should be at $800 soon enough.
No...
As adoption by companies goes up the supply of places to use BTC goes up. As users of BTC go up the demand goes up. Right now we are in a massive company sweep, where more and more companies are accepting BTC. The "supply" of companies accepting BTC is far outweighing the "demand" for using said BTC.
In other words when looking at a rough supply/demand chart, US, the PEOPLE, are the demand. The companies are the supply. There is TOO MUCH supply coming in vs demand coming in, to make the price go up right now.
That is the most simplistic I can explain that. I vote to sticky this please so we can stop talking about it until tons of people are using btc. k thx.
Lol, What you've said truly makes no sense....Do you know how this all even works?
Ok, I'll give you the run down.
Someone buys Bitcoin
They use that Bitcoin to buy something on Overstock.com
Overstock sells the bitcoin for usd after that Person has bought w/e
There, The person buying the bitcoin, and Overstock selling the bitcoin cancel each other out, so it has No effect on the price. Learn how markets move sir. Then you have to factor in the newcomers, coming in and buying bitcoin because they heard/saw on tv that another company is accepting bitcoin(dell, expedia etc etc). That causes the price to Rise.
PS: I loled when you said the companies coming in are the Supply, please go RESEARCH before making stupid comments, thanks.
You need to improve your reading comprehension. There is too much supply so price of BTC has been going down. There are too many places to spend the BTC compared to the people willing to spend the BTC(demand). So when any of those places gets BTC they have to hurry up and get rid of it(what bitpay does). Thus creating a temporary market effect of companies selling under the average price which brings the average down. Why else is BTC down to like 560 right now? It isn't because so many people are using it.
Please save the talking down of people for someone who is dumber than you.
That's funny because you stated the The Companies are the Supply.
That statement alone shows you have no idea what you're talking about genius. I'm not even gonna bother reading this paragraph. LOL
Nobody on here is going to agree with you.
@ your PS comment, how can you ever logically conclude that BTC is the supply in this scenario. Are you joking or are you actually this confused? We are not talking about the supply of BTC keeping the price at X. We are talking about the Supply of companies accepting the Demand of BTC keeping the price at x.
jeez dude....
So I seen we've climbed overall from around $400 to $600 with bitcoin, then stopped at around $600. If it repeats, then we should be at $800 soon enough.
No...
As adoption by companies goes up the supply of places to use BTC goes up. As users of BTC go up the demand goes up. Right now we are in a massive company sweep, where more and more companies are accepting BTC. The "supply" of companies accepting BTC is far outweighing the "demand" for using said BTC.
In other words when looking at a rough supply/demand chart, US, the PEOPLE, are the demand. The companies are the supply. There is TOO MUCH supply coming in vs demand coming in, to make the price go up right now.
That is the most simplistic I can explain that. I vote to sticky this please so we can stop talking about it until tons of people are using btc. k thx.
Lol, What you've said truly makes no sense....Do you know how this all even works?
Ok, I'll give you the run down.
Someone buys Bitcoin
They use that Bitcoin to buy something on Overstock.com
Overstock sells the bitcoin for usd after that Person has bought w/e
There, The person buying the bitcoin, and Overstock selling the bitcoin cancel each other out, so it has No effect on the price. Learn how markets move sir. Then you have to factor in the newcomers, coming in and buying bitcoin because they heard/saw on tv that another company is accepting bitcoin(dell, expedia etc etc). That causes the price to Rise.
PS: I loled when you said the companies coming in are the Supply, please go RESEARCH before making stupid comments, thanks.
You need to improve your reading comprehension. There is too much supply so price of BTC has been going down. There are too many places to spend the BTC compared to the people willing to spend the BTC(demand). So when any of those places gets BTC they have to hurry up and get rid of it(what bitpay does). Thus creating a temporary market effect of companies selling under the average price which brings the average down. Why else is BTC down to like 560 right now? It isn't because so many people are using it.
Please save the talking down of people for someone who is dumber than you.
That's funny because you stated the The Companies are the Supply.
That statement alone shows you have no idea what you're talking about genius. I'm not even gonna bother reading this paragraph. LOL
So I seen we've climbed overall from around $400 to $600 with bitcoin, then stopped at around $600. If it repeats, then we should be at $800 soon enough.
No...
As adoption by companies goes up the supply of places to use BTC goes up. As users of BTC go up the demand goes up. Right now we are in a massive company sweep, where more and more companies are accepting BTC. The "supply" of companies accepting BTC is far outweighing the "demand" for using said BTC.
In other words when looking at a rough supply/demand chart, US, the PEOPLE, are the demand. The companies are the supply. There is TOO MUCH supply coming in vs demand coming in, to make the price go up right now.
That is the most simplistic I can explain that. I vote to sticky this please so we can stop talking about it until tons of people are using btc. k thx.
Lol, What you've said truly makes no sense....Do you know how this all even works?
Ok, I'll give you the run down.
Someone buys Bitcoin
They use that Bitcoin to buy something on Overstock.com
Overstock sells the bitcoin for usd after that Person has bought w/e
There, The person buying the bitcoin, and Overstock selling the bitcoin cancel each other out, so it has No effect on the price. Learn how markets move sir. Then you have to factor in the newcomers, coming in and buying bitcoin because they heard/saw on tv that another company is accepting bitcoin(dell, expedia etc etc). That causes the price to Rise.
PS: I loled when you said the companies coming in are the Supply, please go RESEARCH before making stupid comments, thanks.
You need to improve your reading comprehension. There is too much supply so price of BTC has been going down. There are too many places to spend the BTC compared to the people willing to spend the BTC(demand). So when any of those places gets BTC they have to hurry up and get rid of it(what bitpay does). Thus creating a temporary market effect of companies selling under the average price which brings the average down. Why else is BTC down to like 560 right now? It isn't because so many people are using it.
Please save the talking down of people for someone who is dumber than you.
@ your PS comment, how can you ever logically conclude that BTC is the supply in this scenario. Are you joking or are you actually this confused? We are not talking about the supply of BTC keeping the price at X. We are talking about the Supply of companies accepting the Demand of BTC keeping the price at x.
jeez dude....
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