Bitcoin can help all nations. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Odusko

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Quote from: AliKhan5544 on February 16, 2023, 03:28:24 AM

yes it can change everyone,s fate

I agree with you but the fate can change only if bitcoin is focused on with the right perspective, El Salvador have taken the right step in that direction as they have made bitcoin a legal tender among other things that come with that is fhe bitcoin bond which is a fraction of the countries reserve and should yield interest if the price of bitcoin keeps increasing the way it is right now.
But to make a point very clear, the $800 millions debt repayments are not mentioned to be from Bitcoin, because El Salvador has not sold any of their Bitcoin since their bought it some time ago.

TheGreatPython

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Quote from: borovichok on February 15, 2023, 09:24:15 AM

Bitcoin was created with the intention of making trading and owning it profitable for the average person. Due to the rigorous regulations set on cryptocurrencies that carry a fine for breaking them, not all nations can buy bitcoin. Bitcoin is welcomed in industrialized nations, but underdeveloped nations are wary of the initiative for fear that it could replace their fiat money. Existence of bitcoin is beneficial, since it will simplify operations and payment methods worldwide. Although it won't be adopted everywhere, the bulk of European nations are already familiar with it and are reaping significant financial benefits.

I don't think it was intentional or the developer of BTC expected that his invention can be used for trading and investing. What he only know is that he created a kind of currency which are opposed to fiats. I wouldn't wonder any more if industrialized nations are like that, it's because they embrace every opportunity, not like to the undeveloped nations who are scared of many things.

This is the main thing that limits them to improve as a nation. BTC can indeed simplify the payment operation because there will be no need for a third party when we use it but some people might think BTC is too complex so they will still stick to what they already know.

MinoRaiola

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Quote from: GeorgeJohn on February 13, 2023, 03:33:05 PM

If i should ask you this question, how Bitcoin help a nation? From my perspective in cryptocurrency and especially bitcoin which is the most influential coin in cryptocurrency can help a nation when the country decode the important of cryptocurrency, so i believe that cryptocurrency can have a support for a nation when they invest via Bitcoin with a credible traders that knows the advantages and disadvantages of cryptocurrency precisely.

If people do P2P and that globally. An example: If a woman in India lives in poverty and calls for help, then a person in Europe could send her some Bitcoin (or altcoins) within a few minutes so that she can buy some food, or pay a doctor because she is sick. There are millions of people who live with less than 2$ a day, if you want to help these people quickly, you could do it with bitcoin. A nation or the government can watch people help each other, or they can enable the option for all people to help each other. When you eat in a restaurant in Europe, you spend much money compared to India, El Salvador, Africa and many other. We could all support each other all over the world, but that is a dream that may never come true. Who needs the IMF for this?

AliKhan5544

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yes it can change everyone,s fate

Flexystar

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Hmm, seems IMF is on wrong foot lately. Anyways they are bank people so they will never agree the very existence of borderless transaction using bitcoin. It is but obvious that they will show negative data more prominently as compared to what nation has achieved with bitcoin acceptance. If such organisations do not render the proper use of crypto currencies then definitely they are not surrounded by very smart people.

Imagine situation where El Salvador’s holdings grown to trillions of dollars in a decade or so? Since price is supposed to go up as we see lesser emission and high demand with the time. The country where bitcoin is legal tender will be looked at as hot hub for the use of crypto currencies. It will be one of the first rich country due bitcoins holding decisions.

El Salvador is doing just that. They are strongly keeping hold of it. They would not care about IMF or any authority once they gain nice returns in the coming years.

Artemis3

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Quote from: uneng on February 14, 2023, 02:40:04 PM

If Bukele is an idiot or not, only time will tell. The fact is that he took a big risk when investing in bitcoin during a bearish market, and now luck must be on his side in order to not finish as an idiot on the story. As he is using fiat and keeping bitcoins untouched, he is creating more debt for the country through loans, while betting bitcoin can overcome the bearish scenario soon, so he can finally pay the debt created with profit from bitcoin investment.

What risk? There is no risk when you buy bitcoin. Only fools who don't know they need to wait for selling, if ever.

Guess what, of all the bitcoins they have bought, apparently, they have sold NONE. They are holding, this is zero risk, unless you believe the rhetoric that bitcoin is going to zero, repeated every year and actually going the opposite direction...

What El Salvador is doing is building a sovereign reserve, better than gold without the outrageous custody costs... In a future where most of its income is in bitcoin, i suppose they will start using/selling some, but currently they have plenty of fiat to burn, no need to spend precious bitcoin.

It is a normal strategy ("HODL") any bitcoiner should have. He is no fool unlike the rest of the politicians worldwide, at least regarding Bitcoin. However no country can ever develop with crime, so that other part is also correct imo no matter what others say. I know how crime destroys an economy very well, write it down: if they keep walking this path, El Salvador will become the Switzerland of the Americas.

borovichok

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Quote from: Mpamaegbu on February 14, 2023, 02:13:56 PM

Despite how dearly I love the idea of Bitcoin, both as an asset and means of payment from my POV, I strongly believe it won't solve the world's financial problems. My reasons aren't far fetched. Not all nations are blessed with electricity supply like what we've in the advanced countries. Dealings in Bitcoin require power supply but sadly not every nation has that. Secondly, accepting Bitcoin as legal tender is a matter of choice. Invariably, not everyone is in tune with using Bitcoin and that counts for something. Its use won't be globally accepted. So, it can't really be of help to all nations.

Bitcoin was created with the intention of making trading and owning it profitable for the average person. Due to the rigorous regulations set on cryptocurrencies that carry a fine for breaking them, not all nations can buy bitcoin. Bitcoin is welcomed in industrialized nations, but underdeveloped nations are wary of the initiative for fear that it could replace their fiat money. Existence of bitcoin is beneficial, since it will simplify operations and payment methods worldwide. Although it won't be adopted everywhere, the bulk of European nations are already familiar with it and are reaping significant financial benefits.

uneng

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Quote from: Artemis3 on February 14, 2023, 12:02:23 PM

Quote from: BitDane on February 13, 2023, 03:17:48 PM

I believe the issue of high volatility is one of the major reason why IMF is issuing warnings to El Salvador. For IMF, investing in a high volatile asset is a red flag since IMF believe that the Bitcoin market can crash anytime and will incur losses to El Salvador's economy.

We know that IMF is a strong believer of centralized financial institution, so Bitcoin being decentralized is one negative point for IMF.

Bitcoin if taken seriously and with right regulation can surely help one country. It has been discussed and stated that Bitcoin can bring new jobs, potential business venture and start-ups that can give a country profit.

Not it doesn't, so called "crash" already happened but Bukele is no idiot. He is holding the bitcoins while spending the fiat.
Don't think of bitcoin as asset, think of it as currency. But different than fiat. Use what you must hold the rest. If you can hold all of it even better, but in a future without fiat income, then yes, you are going to spend some of it, but there is no need to get in debt or burn it all before it loses is value...

Yes, Fiat is designed to lose its value, its not a "maybe", it is intentionally made to lose value from their dogmatic economy beliefs (Monetarists). Instead the so called "volatility" of bitcoin, turns out when you zoom out the graph, that is not such. Long term its tendency is more than clear, even right now, its still valued higher than 3 years ago, think about it. At the same time, fiat has gone down worldwide, as designed to do, just a bit faster with govs overspending and abusing their powers to just "print more" whenever they feel like it.

Inflation is the worst of taxes, and govs can cause it at will, not Bitcoin...

If Bukele is an idiot or not, only time will tell. The fact is that he took a big risk when investing in bitcoin during a bearish market, and now luck must be on his side in order to not finish as an idiot on the story. As he is using fiat and keeping bitcoins untouched, he is creating more debt for the country through loans, while betting bitcoin can overcome the bearish scenario soon, so he can finally pay the debt created with profit from bitcoin investment.

Mpamaegbu

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Despite how dearly I love the idea of Bitcoin, both as an asset and means of payment from my POV, I strongly believe it won't solve the world's financial problems. My reasons aren't far fetched. Not all nations are blessed with electricity supply like what we've in the advanced countries. Dealings in Bitcoin require power supply but sadly not every nation has that. Secondly, accepting Bitcoin as legal tender is a matter of choice. Invariably, not everyone is in tune with using Bitcoin and that counts for something. Its use won't be globally accepted. So, it can't really be of help to all nations.

Gcrypto786

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Quote from: Lida93 on February 13, 2023, 12:22:12 PM

IMF issues another warning to El Salvador on its Bitcoin decisions:
The country has been very certain about its decision to integrate Bitcoin into its financial sector. However, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) keeps issuing warnings. After a recent visit of IMF staff in the country, they observed that the Bitcoin risk to the country has not materialized yet. This is said to be due to its limited use of the decentralized asset.

Many people only see the Huge money in crypto but only a few of them realize the dark side of crypto. Regularizing Crypto but on the user, risk will be a good decision instead of mixing it with the whole country and involving it with the Government. That's the main reason IMF warn them and many others.

Artemis3

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Quote from: BitDane on February 13, 2023, 03:17:48 PM

I believe the issue of high volatility is one of the major reason why IMF is issuing warnings to El Salvador. For IMF, investing in a high volatile asset is a red flag since IMF believe that the Bitcoin market can crash anytime and will incur losses to El Salvador's economy.

We know that IMF is a strong believer of centralized financial institution, so Bitcoin being decentralized is one negative point for IMF.

Bitcoin if taken seriously and with right regulation can surely help one country. It has been discussed and stated that Bitcoin can bring new jobs, potential business venture and start-ups that can give a country profit.

Not it doesn't, so called "crash" already happened but Bukele is no idiot. He is holding the bitcoins while spending the fiat.
Don't think of bitcoin as asset, think of it as currency. But different than fiat. Use what you must hold the rest. If you can hold all of it even better, but in a future without fiat income, then yes, you are going to spend some of it, but there is no need to get in debt or burn it all before it loses is value...

Yes, Fiat is designed to lose its value, its not a "maybe", it is intentionally made to lose value from their dogmatic economy beliefs (Monetarists). Instead the so called "volatility" of bitcoin, turns out when you zoom out the graph, that is not such. Long term its tendency is more than clear, even right now, its still valued higher than 3 years ago, think about it. At the same time, fiat has gone down worldwide, as designed to do, just a bit faster with govs overspending and abusing their powers to just "print more" whenever they feel like it.

Inflation is the worst of taxes, and govs can cause it at will, not Bitcoin...

kryptqnick

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I've read it earlier about El Salvador that they have a special attitude toward foreign debt: they try to repay as much as they can and be independent of others. That, in a way, helped them deal with the IMF, which was against El Salvador making Bitcoin legal tender, but since El Salvador tries not to owe money, the IMF didn't have much leverage over them.
So even if they owe something to the IMF now, I don't think El Salvador will change its policies regarding Bitcoin. I'm impressed if Bitcoin actually helped them as much. It hasn't been great over the last year for Bitcoin, so I assumed they lost money rather than gained it.

Lucius

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@Lida93, please don't open a new thread for things discussed in other threads, especially since we have a main thread about El Salvador. How much Bitcoin helped (or didn't) El Salvador is a topic we can discuss endlessly, but it certainly didn't help pay off the debt you're talking about here. The truth is much different than what most people think, so I will just quote @stompix post in the hope that it will help someone to understand who paid what and where the money came from.

Quote from: stompix on January 26, 2023, 12:46:54 PM

And not a word on the $450m they took in a loan with Central American Bank for Economic Integration and the other $100m they took from the Inter-American Development Bank to pay $604 million in bond maturity.

But yeah, let's talk about 800 paid in full when in reality it's just $604 million paid with the help of getting 550 million in loans!
And from 800 we're down to 54!

Man, Bukele is playing everyone for fools just with some tweets, all it has to do is post the BTC sign and everyone stops questioning any of his statements. When was the last time somebody asked this guy to prove they actually bought those coins and they do have them? Fairly normal to ask Binance to do so, but god forbids we're asking the idol to show proof of any of his claims!
Don't trust, verify my ass!
~snip~

famososMuertos

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No. Please, you don't have to dispersed in the extended idea "Help me".

So. Let's go to the specifics of your idea, which as antecedent to its context, has that headline.

Bitcoin is a tool that, depending on its individual use, helps the payment process and safekeeping of our assets, as never before could be done so efficiently, whether buying or selling.

Then, it is decentralized in the traditional context of the financial framework. Hence, it is this context, the one that worries the FMI.

Plaguedeath

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Bitcoin doesn't help any other nations in this story, El Salvador just pay their bonds using Bitcoin, Bitcoin isn't an airdropped coin where it make El Salvador can earn $800 Million. Actually the better example how Bitcoin can be used to help all nations are the donation for Ukraine [1], as for earthquake disaster on Turkey, they only accept altcoins [2]. It's really not make sense how charity organizations ask for 10-20% fee while using Bitcoin or altcoins only charge for less than 1% for the fee and 5% to cashout.

[1] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/donate-to-ukraine-5387590
[2] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/good-cause-to-use-stablecoins-help-earthquake-victims-in-turkiye-5438580

Fundamentals Of

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The IMF is a fiat-based organization. If a country prefers to adopt a currency that the IMF cannot control and influence in more ways than one, you can expect that it won't support it. It would discourage the country. It would also criticize the new currency. If possible, it would even try to bring it down. It's just that Bitcoin is decentralized. All the IMF could do is to be critical of it. They cannot shut it down. So they are making up issues and problems that would arise if El Salvador's adoption of Bitcoin pushes through. In the end, they're proven wrong.

Sebas.tian

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Yes, Bitcoin can help a Nation which El Salvador be the first country to made Bitcoin legal tender for their economy to improve and to eliminate high rate of unemployment in the country. El Salvador government has used Bitcoin to build many infrastructure around the country for other countries to know how important Bitcoin is to a nation and how it can help a Nation to be far from inflation in the land. I think, the risk El Salvador government took some years ago to made Bitcoin popular in their country that is attracting other countries to do the same thing, because of the positive results that is coming from El Salvador government.

pooya87

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Quote from: Lida93 on February 13, 2023, 12:22:12 PM

its no news that the IMF as an organization is not unconnected to centralized authority system.

I wonder, could it be due to these factors that the IMF in bent on giving out warnings to the El Salvador government against their acceptance of bitcoin into their financial sector and heavily investing on it but rather doing so under the pretext of supposed risk that El Salvador decision might pose to it's economy?

IMF is not at all independent. It is located in Washington, D.C. United States and despite what they officially announce, they have always been enforcing US interests. Their only concerns regarding El Salvador and their warning is not about bitcoin in El Salvador's economy. Their concern is that a country that didn't have a national currency and was using 100% US dollar is now slowly dumping the dollar and moving away from it.

OcTradism

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Quote from: Lida93 on February 13, 2023, 12:22:12 PM

Bitcoin can help all nations

If you have neutral mind and experienced enough, when you see anything project, person, company that promises perfect things, it's lie. I am not doubtful that they are lying with perfect promises that easily to realize.

Bitcoin is good to help poor people to become richer if they can invest and hold Bitcoin many years and don't trade. Bitcoin can help people individually or communities locally as payment method, part of treasury but it can not and will never be able to fix all things around the world.

The world has many countries and each of them have unique social economic politic status so you will not have anything that can solve all of problems in all nations globally.

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Quote from: Stalker22 on February 13, 2023, 05:43:25 PM

Quote from: Baofeng on February 13, 2023, 03:41:15 PM

Quote from: Sam nickelsson on February 13, 2023, 12:37:42 PM

How did that 800M come from ?

Same question, I haven't follow how much they invested on Bitcoin and when did they sell to take profits.

I do not think that they did. At least I have not seen anywhere that Bukele has made it public.

Nowhere it is mentioned about the country doing 800 million. The tourism industry have boomed which was at the low bottom due to the pandemic. Something around 35% growth in the tourism industry have taken place which is really good. More infrastructure plans have been planned out of the bitcoin bonds and things haven't touched the reality. Possibly it takes time and begins when the market turns to be strongly bullish.

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