Bitcoin capital fleeing to Ethereum?

Samarkand

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Quote from: pera on February 01, 2018, 06:17:38 PM

...
Yeah, I don't think they will ever switch to some PoS, but I may be wrong... There are though some "new" (2016) academic developments with respect to PoS: it's not trivial but it is feasible. This doesn't mean that PoS will replace PoW because they have a different set of strong/weak points, so I think they will just coexist. (I'm also curious about this new proof of space and time, which I believe could be a real alternative to PoW)

You could be right.

But don´t you think that academic developments of consensus algorithms are different to them being
actually viable for a network that secures billions of $ in digital assets?

What if there are bugs that don´t show up in academic theories?
What if there are unknown attack vectors that make it easy to steal user balances?

It is simply completely crazy to switch the consensus algorithm of a platform that
currently has a market cap (I know, market cap is not a great metric for
cryptocurrencies) of nearly 100 billion $. If PoS proves to be insecure or bad for other
reasons a large amount of this wealth could evaporate.

Proof-of-work has been shown to be secure for nearly a decade, PoS has never been
attempted aside from a few altcoins with low market caps.

el kaka22

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Quote from: TERA2 on February 01, 2018, 07:44:33 AM

Im still awiting for Ethereum to correct to $30. Its going to happen eventually. Like litecoin correcting from $50 to $1

Simple plain manipulation by the wall street dudes, that is all I am seeing in the market right now. For those who are opting in for profit or for whatever they may be thinking in their head, I really hope they get the benefit from it in the long run.

Unfortunately, we have the wall street guys in our midst now and I won't be surprised if they start using the news in favor of Ethereum to get another pumped up price for them to make some cool profit on it, so I will be very careful and take profit quickly when the time is right as there is nothing upholding that price.

Probably investors are switching into Ethereum for profit since it is presently in its uptrend while bitcoin keeps tanking. They are really both quite close and when I saw it on coinmarketcap, I just thought, what if we actually ended up seeing the moment of fight of market cap between the two. I guess we will never know now until we see it happen. However, I do not think we will ever get to that before bitcoin recovers, and then we will see a drastic switch over.

myhoho

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I think ethereum is going to take over bitcoin.
Ethereum' smart contracts roks and bitcoin have nothing to do. Ethereum is the best crypto for now but nice competitors coming like QTUM, ADA etc..

gabmen

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Quote from: Kevin77 on February 03, 2018, 08:45:58 AM

Quote from: Cobalt9317 on January 31, 2018, 11:35:39 PM

Quote from: tippytoes on January 31, 2018, 10:48:25 PM

I have to agree with you regarding avoiding ethereum before. Initially, it was too complicated for me. But then, it all started with the airdrop hype. Everybody is having their airdrop in eth platform. So I tried. Anyway, there's no harm in trying, right? And guess what, I earned a lot from those eth tokens. So I'm not complaining. Grin

There are a lot of advantages in eth platform that's maybe why a lot are utilizing now their services.

Ethereum is increasing in value because just like you said more company is using smart contract base on Ethereum.

But the probability of Ethereum to surpass Bitcoin is highly unlikely to happen, a lot of user is trading their Bitcoin for Ethereum now because it looks like the price is increasing, But that is only temporarily we can see some sell in high and will lead Ethereum to the stable price and chances are Bitcoin capital will remain.

P.S But I really doubt that Ethereum will not surpass Bitcoin a lot of company are now using the technology of ETH.

Well, they are pretty close in market capitalization, so based on that, I would not say there is no possibility of it. We really need some news right now to cause bitcoin to gain some momentum. Ethereum is a good project that has given birth to similar good ones, no doubt !

However, the move in the market now to me, is more like whales trying to pull stunts to cause an uptrend in the market for Ethereum, get some pretty good profit from the trend just before bitcoin gets on the recovery mode. Just my thoughts though. Also, I see right now as the good time to invest in alts.

Well just because etherium went up a little bit during btc's decline doesn't mean btc peeps are moving to eth. It happened just for a short time and then eth joined in on the red party. Though i agree with all of you about eth's and smart contract's better potential, people will always see eth as second fiddle to btc, at least for the next few years

Kevin77

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Quote from: Cobalt9317 on January 31, 2018, 11:35:39 PM

Quote from: tippytoes on January 31, 2018, 10:48:25 PM

I have to agree with you regarding avoiding ethereum before. Initially, it was too complicated for me. But then, it all started with the airdrop hype. Everybody is having their airdrop in eth platform. So I tried. Anyway, there's no harm in trying, right? And guess what, I earned a lot from those eth tokens. So I'm not complaining. Grin

There are a lot of advantages in eth platform that's maybe why a lot are utilizing now their services.

Ethereum is increasing in value because just like you said more company is using smart contract base on Ethereum.

But the probability of Ethereum to surpass Bitcoin is highly unlikely to happen, a lot of user is trading their Bitcoin for Ethereum now because it looks like the price is increasing, But that is only temporarily we can see some sell in high and will lead Ethereum to the stable price and chances are Bitcoin capital will remain.

P.S But I really doubt that Ethereum will not surpass Bitcoin a lot of company are now using the technology of ETH.

Well, they are pretty close in market capitalization, so based on that, I would not say there is no possibility of it. We really need some news right now to cause bitcoin to gain some momentum. Ethereum is a good project that has given birth to similar good ones, no doubt !

However, the move in the market now to me, is more like whales trying to pull stunts to cause an uptrend in the market for Ethereum, get some pretty good profit from the trend just before bitcoin gets on the recovery mode. Just my thoughts though. Also, I see right now as the good time to invest in alts.

pera

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バカ

Quote from: Samarkand on February 01, 2018, 08:47:41 AM

The current price of ETH is completely unsustainable.
There is not a single dApp that has a huge userbase and I´m also
not seeing the emergence of one in the foreseeable future. [...]

Well... there is CryptoKitties Grin

Quote

The switch to PoS keeps getting postponed, which could be an indication
that there are unsolved problems. Besides, it is questionable whether Proof-of-Stake
is even technically viable at all. There is a reason why Satoshi Nakamoto decided to use
Proof-of-Work for Bitcoin.

Yeah, I don't think they will ever switch to some PoS, but I may be wrong... There are though some "new" (2016) academic developments with respect to PoS: it's not trivial but it is feasible. This doesn't mean that PoS will replace PoW because they have a different set of strong/weak points, so I think they will just coexist. (I'm also curious about this new proof of space and time, which I believe could be a real alternative to PoW)

Apraksin

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Moon?

Ethereum has managed to become a trusted asset much like Bitcoin, which is an extremely rare quality in a market where speculation and manipulation is the order of the day.

topper26

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no people are not mad selling bitcoin to ethereum, if you look today ether is in the red also and the coinmarketcap difference between btc and etc is now 52bil as mentioned earlier it was 40 billion. the flippening is not happening just more fud

XCANA

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I strongly believe that so many people are currently converting their Bitcoin to ethereum as a result of the current market decline of Bitcoin and ethereum is still fair as compared to Bitcoin and bitcoin Cash decline in value.

richardsNY

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It could be the case for a small fraction of the people, but the point is that Ethereum doesn't need Bitcoin capital to increase further. The major part of the altcoin market is sinking as well, so in the same way one could ask whether or not people are selling them for Ethereum as well. People should just calm down. Don't forget that Ethereum has reached current levels last year already, so it's not that much of an achievement after all -- the only difference is that due to Bitcoin's price, Ethereum managed to reach an all time high based on the fiat, and not necessarily based on their price in terms of BTC. That's something people tend to overlook.

Gameroid

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Quote from: Cobalt9317 on January 31, 2018, 11:35:39 PM

Quote from: tippytoes on January 31, 2018, 10:48:25 PM

I have to agree with you regarding avoiding ethereum before. Initially, it was too complicated for me. But then, it all started with the airdrop hype. Everybody is having their airdrop in eth platform. So I tried. Anyway, there's no harm in trying, right? And guess what, I earned a lot from those eth tokens. So I'm not complaining. Grin

There are a lot of advantages in eth platform that's maybe why a lot are utilizing now their services.

Ethereum is increasing in value because just like you said more company is using smart contract base on Ethereum.

But the probability of Ethereum to surpass Bitcoin is highly unlikely to happen, a lot of user is trading their Bitcoin for Ethereum now because it looks like the price is increasing, But that is only temporarily we can see some sell in high and will lead Ethereum to the stable price and chances are Bitcoin capital will remain.

P.S But I really doubt that Ethereum will not surpass Bitcoin a lot of company are now using the technology of ETH.

Yes that can also be a reason but i think that some people who cannot wait for the price of bitcoin to increase they withdrawal their investment fro bitcoin and now investing it in Etherium and other coins, but i am sure that when bitcoin will start increasing its price, they will again convert their assets into bitcoin, In fact bitcoin is more reliable than any other currency.

xLays

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https://shuffle.com?r=nba

Look at coinmarketcap now! Its only 40 billion difference to overtake bitcoin capital. ETH hodler are laughing today. Including me.

oda.krell

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I don't understand the aversion to Ethereum (or other alts), especially from speculators that otherwise seem to be pretty dispassionate about the market.

What's wrong with holding a diversified long-term position, where the ratios approximately correspond to your long-term belief of success of the respective asset?

Taking that view, one could still have the most faith in BTC coming out on top, but grant that ETH serves a purpose as well, for example: as a bet on "single competent person in charge of an open-source project", think: Linus Torvalds and Linux kernel development.

LoyceV

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Quote from: pera on January 31, 2018, 10:09:53 PM

I have avoided Ethereum like the plage since day one mostly because of technological reasons, and when the DAO fiasco happened I felt like I proved my bias against it.

I felt the same; Ethereum had one USP: "Code is law!". They broke that, which makes them a useless centrally controlled altoin. Created with one goal: make the creator rich!

Quote

Having said that, from a market perspective I have to admit that Ethereum had an amazing performance during the last four months, and it's doing remarkably well during this bloody January.

The market can be irrational. Right after the DAO-failure, I never expected so many people to keep buying this coin that can fork at any time!
Ethereum has also been massively used by ITOs (most of them under the fake name ICO). Hundreds of them have a similar looking website, some random BS "idea", many promises, a BS roadmap, and people have been throwing a few billion dollars at them last year. Since they sell tokens running on Ethereum, it profited from this.

Quote

Right now Bitcoin have a market cap of $172B, and for Ethereum it's $110B. If this trend continues we may get overpassed this quarter, and since it seems like no new money is coming to the crypto market in general I wonder if people are, for whatever reason, swapping Bitcoin for Ethereum.

The Ethereum-boys have been saying that for a long time now. One way or another, it doesn't matter, Ethereum is nothing like Bitcoin.

Quote

Are bad programmed smart contracts running over an insecure platform that hot for this market?

Apparently! If the DOA taught us one thing, it's that nobody understands smart contracts, which renders them useless. I haven't seen a real application yet.

TERA2

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Deb Rah Von Doom

Quote from: Capt00 on February 01, 2018, 09:05:36 AM

Quote from: TERA2 on February 01, 2018, 07:44:33 AM

Im still awiting for Ethereum to correct to $30. Its going to happen eventually. Like litecoin correcting from $50 to $1

Why you are waiting for that man? Don't you ever happy that ethereum reaching $1000? This is a big chance for us, their value today seems to be a big help for other altcoins to grow and with that we can generate more profit from them.

Why would I be happy about an Ethereum rally? It's a bitcoin competition and it's basically centralized. If what you are saying is true then maybe. However I doubt that Ethereum is solely responsible for altcoin rallies. Altcoins had huge rallies before there was even an Ethereum. Anyway regardless of if I am happy about , Eth has risen way too much without a major correction. It basically went straight from $10 to $1500 in a matter of months - that's a 15,000% gain - that does not happen in crypto without triggering a huge bear market.

Capt00

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Quote from: TERA2 on February 01, 2018, 07:44:33 AM

Im still awiting for Ethereum to correct to $30. Its going to happen eventually. Like litecoin correcting from $50 to $1

Why you are waiting for that man? Don't you ever happy that ethereum reaching $1000? This is a big chance for us, their value today seems to be a big help for other altcoins to grow and with that we can generate more profit from them.

Samarkand

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The current price of ETH is completely unsustainable.
There is not a single dApp that has a huge userbase and I´m also
not seeing the emergence of one in the foreseeable future. Besides, more than 31M $
are rewarded in mining rewards every 24 hours (Bitcoin mining rewards are 17M $ per 24h).
If we assume that most of these get sold
within a month and miners don´t hold the block rewards for the long-term
Ethereum needs fresh capital inflows of ~900M $ just to keep its current
price level.

The switch to PoS keeps getting postponed, which could be an indication
that there are unsolved problems. Besides, it is questionable whether Proof-of-Stake
is even technically viable at all. There is a reason why Satoshi Nakamoto decided to use
Proof-of-Work for Bitcoin.

To sum up, I´d guess that the upside for Ethereum is extremely limited
and it is much more likely that it will eventually fall all the way back to
sub-100 $. I haven´t even taken into account the possibility that a better
smart contract platform emerges or that one of the current competitors
steps up and improves drastically.

BTCLovingDude

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BTC to the moon is inevitable...