Topic: Bitcoin & Centralization - page 2. (Read 559 times)

Well somewhat of an off subject comment but it's almost weird to conceive that digital money isn't higher than what it is when governments can print whatever they want basically whenever. Aren't people kind of suspicious of this? Also whats going on with the Dow Jones? Has anybody looked into how high it has gone in the Donald Trump Presidency? Wow, I'm loving the pump don't get me wrong but WOW..

But it doesn't work that way, because the moment you try, you will find your operations don't execute instantly for the entire amount. The capacity for whale manipulation is lower than some people think. This is why this "misery" doesn't even exist.

Wealth distribution is unrelated to coin centralization, that is a fact. No one can destroy Bitcoin overnight, like governments, banks, wars, etc can with fiat. Those that invested earlier, profit the most, and there is no turning back. Bitcoin is no longer something to make money by just buying and holding, that stage is already gone. It is a coin that keeps its value over time, that's its intended purpose, and thanks to its design, its smoothly entering this stage.

Before Bitcoin the world did not have this kind of coin, now it does. Even if you (like me) missed the early days, we can still use it to at least preserve what little wealth we may have up to this point. Should you keep it in fiat, you risk losing it overnight.

Suppose a catastrophe (natural or artificial) happens in your country tomorrow, if you had moved all your money into Bitcoin, your wealth would have been kept safe even if everyone else around you enters misery due to the fiat/economy collapse. But this is a decision you can only take BEFORE it happens (even if it never happens). Once it happens, it is too late to react. The smart investor would simply diversify, just in case. It is foolish to trust your government or your central bank, especially when you know they have the power to make you poor overnight.

Decentralization is unfortunately impossible in modern conditions, so bitcoin is likely to be centralized.

It's not centralized, and it's nowhere going to be. You may think that, but everyone else had that opportunity to get some Bitcoins in insane amounts when you got in it earlier than the others. You could've mined that too if you had the time to discovered Bitcoin more previously. It's lucky timing with their holdings, and I don't think it's going to be scary knowing that there are those kinds of distributions. There's nothing you could do but continue your own business, right?

I think you don't  really understand what centralisation and decentralization actually means. Decentralization is the crypto space means no one controls the amount of transactions made by an individual within a day and the amount of funds the person is sending. Decentralization means financial freedom. You should also know that decentralization is cause the frequent change in the market value of most cryptocurrencies since the decentralized nature causes people to determine the market price of a particular coin. 

Most of the times what make bitcoin decentralized nature appear blur is due to the selfishness of some whales, governments and even some of us. Many whale's transaction activities are without the considering of others and therefore erupting manipulations,  the government policies too such as  tax deduction, which should not be a bad idea any way but tend to lead to ban when it is not at their exact will.
Many of us too who refuses to release the little that is right to the government are also a factor.

Well, you are partially countering your own argument.

If I have lots of Bitcoins (say, 5-10K), I can easily control the liquidity in the market.  I can easily fake pump/dump by choosing any single exchange and that will manipulate the whole market.

That's the current misery with Bitcoin. Although the Proof of Work algorithm ensures its fair-working as a currency (since lots of nodes already ensuring decentralization of chain's instance) but 'Bitcoin as an investment' is still prey to the early holders. That's what make Bitcoin a risky investment and main reason why it is referred as Bubble by many experienced investors.

That's exactly what I'm thinking.  Ownership doesn't come into the equation when you're talking about decentralization--with bitcoin, it means that many miners are responsible for creation of coins and maintenance of the blockchain.  None of that depends on banks or governments.  That's my understanding anyway.  Bitcoin is as decentralized as a currency can get, even if its price (which is a separate issue) could be manipulated by whales.

That's what a lot of people say, anyway.  But nobody can ever point to exactly who these whales are or what the manipulation is.  It almost gets into tinfoil hat territory IMO when people start ranting about those whales.

But are you talking about bitcoin or Bitcoin? Because it is very easy to confuse and not to distinguish between asset and protocol: they are two distinct things.

There will always be poor, rich and ultra rich people no matter what currency are we going to use. However decentralization in Bitcoin is about not being controlled by a central entity. For example the Feds can increase the supply of US Dollar indefinitely. Also they control how much liquidity is poured into the market, etc.

Yeah, these whales do manipulate the price. But not always. Market tends to come back to its natural growth and price. They have the Bitcoin in the bulk. But do mind it, there are many such whales. You can lose money in trade if the manipulation isn't followed by the people. So, you can't always do that. If there is a trend, you can only intensify it unless and until there's a cartel of all the whales. So rest assured, I won't term Bitcoin as centralized for that.

Bitcoin is not centralized, it’s still what it is – decentralized. Just because it is being held by lots of whales doesn’t mean that it has become centralized. The government cannot adopt Bitcoin and that’s because of its decentralized nature, it s not owned by anyone or country and there is no particular control unit. Every country can’t adopt the same currency, so that’s why they are not adopting it.

Yep, you’re right as times goes on a lot of people will start to adopt Bitcoin and it will spread out. Though I have also seen people that claims that it’s not going to be like that, rather whales will buy up and hold everything and when the time comes people won’t be able to buy Bitcoin again. That’s all lies, no time is late to buy Bitcoin, people trade bitcoin every minute and no matter the condition, so such is not going to happen.

Larger holdings doesn't mean that the scales are tipped to them. Centralisation means that the currency itself originates and is being regulated by a single entity which in the case of fiats is the central bank of each country. If you are afraid that a certain 1% club exists that manipulate bitcoin's price then let me cast it aside, there are whales indeed but since bitcoin is in itself secure. They can only do so much with the manipulation they are doing.

All are possible especially when it comes to technology. I know that there is a way to do that. But is it really advantageous to Bitcoin to be that way or remain Decentralized so that it can function well? Well, I am open for all types of changes but I suggest that there should be a thorough study first before doing that so that it will not be open for abuse by a single entity.

i do have in my mind that BTC is centralized due to percent of new BTC mined in China, which cannot be seen as good decentralization strategy, from global hash rate, 70% is mined in Sichuan province, which is large percent for me, and I would like to see better global coverage for BTC miners, which is not realistic due to power price and equipment manufacturers, which are mainly based in China...

Whales holds bigger amount to play with the market, and creates hype in the right time. Their unpredictable mindset is making more crucial to many individuals who've been following cryptocurrency. I don't know with other people who doesn't appreciate cryptocurrency, but for us who's strongly supports the progress, remained faithful with the community.

If we simply think about centralization itself you will understand that somehow or someway Bitcoin is under control in a different way and it is inevitable to happen. May it be the governments trying to regulate it or the miners trying to control the hashrate or even the whales trying to influence the market Bitcoin itself simply isn't protected from those kinds of threats since BTC as a commodity all has some kind of demand outside the market and that is the demand to control it. We simply can't avoid this things from happening but I'm sure we can limit it.

An important point is that we do not know how many currencies are still in circulation so that there are thousands of Bitcoins produced in the first days and nobody knows about them.

These unknown coins will create a balance and decentralize the cryptosystem.
Also, the awareness of BTC holding using open-source wallets increased, decentralized platforms have evolved, and therefore the risk of central platforms is less severe.

Even though whales control the market it doesn't mean that bitcoin is centralized maybe you can call it manipulated or something. Bitcoin remains decentralized whatever happens. Decentralization that people want from bitcoin is they can store and secure their assets without giving 3rd party access to their money. But if we're talking about the price being controlled or the volatility it could be different than centralization.

Well i find it a feasible solution for maybe a store of wealth something like gold in a sense but it's just not feasible for everyday use. I think most people would agree that it's technology nowadays is almost borderline archaic and obsolete. None the less still a fan of the Bitcoin. 9k usd anyone?