Bitcoin changes finance - but for the better or the worse?

X-ray

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Quote from: machinek20 on April 11, 2017, 06:40:57 PM

I think it is moving to a better finance to the better world, because bitcoin become a currency without inflation, its mean that if we invest in bitcoin our investment wont lose its value due to the government control

Can you tell me about some reasons to be a support for the bitcoin to make the better finance system?
Bitcoin can't do that, but the finance needs the blockchain. because the blockchain is offering a simple database to store all of the finance activities. And we do not need manual step to do that.

machinek20

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I think it is moving to a better finance to the better world, because bitcoin become a currency without inflation, its mean that if we invest in bitcoin our investment wont lose its value due to the government control

JariKriting

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Quote from: HabBear on April 07, 2017, 12:39:29 AM

Bitcoin offers an alternative to traditional (fiat based) finance.

There's no interest that's inherent in this system. There's no mechanism for easy lending. There's no money supply manipulation. There's no lending off of a balance sheet (only) asset, i.e., imaginary money.

Does Bitcoin offer a positive evolution to finance? If so, how?

bitcoin is good finance evolution
with bitcoin my income is incraese and my finance get revolution, because iam cryptocurency trading bitcoin and altcoin my income above to my work office
but if bitcoin to revolution and replace position fiat money, i think still very imposible

Hydrogen

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Quote from: HabBear on April 08, 2017, 12:13:16 AM

Quote from: Hydrogen on April 07, 2017, 06:26:46 PM

Off the top of my head, btc has positives in terms of.

-Putting pressure on wire transfer services to reduce their transaction fees.
-Putting pressure on state sanctioned currencies to compete in terms of price stability.

There are positive ways in which btc changes finance for the better.

So i have to disagree with you. I don't think wire transfer services are changing their fee structure at all, but some people now realize there's an alternative to typical wire transfer options.

And how is Bitcoin encouraging fiat currency stability? Bitcoin is super unstable!

In 2014 walmart launched their own money transfer service, which undercut transfer fees by a big margin. source

Walmart's transfer fees(and their competitors) in comparison to bitcoin:

The answer may be: yes, wire transfer services are changing their fees & if they want to compete with bitcoin they will need to change them even more.

Fiat stability is like a large dam that either blocks all water or allows all water through(after the dam is destroyed).

At first glance, crypto might appear less stable than the dollar and other fiat. But if that fiat dam breaks and hyperinflation occurs I don't think things will look that way anymore.

There are also issues with fiat being overburdened with deficit.

Bitcoin "instability" isn't really an issue as even when it declined to $900, it was still 300% higher than it was 1 or 2 years prior.

If bitcoin and crypto becomes more mainstream, it could put a lot of pressure on wire transfer services run by walmart.

It could put more pressure on fiat also to show that being regulated can provide real and lasting value, which evidence could contradict at this point.

megynacuna

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It s definitely changed the global financial sector for the better for the masses and not necessarily the government or central banks. It's provided an alternative remittance system for transferring money globally at lower fees from the comfort of our homes 24/7 and that's better than fiat remittances. It has single handedly eradicated double spending of currency and that's positive do in all I think Bitcoin's influence has been that on the positive side.

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Quote from: pinkflower on April 08, 2017, 12:26:21 AM

Quote from: HabBear on April 07, 2017, 12:39:29 AM

Bitcoin offers an alternative to traditional (fiat based) finance.

There's no interest that's inherent in this system. There's no mechanism for easy lending. There's no money supply manipulation. There's no lending off of a balance sheet (only) asset, i.e., imaginary money.

Does Bitcoin offer a positive evolution to finance? If so, how?

It doesnt. What it does is it disrupts the status quo and intends to give the people a way to make transactions without the banks being needed. Think of BTC as something that should be separate from the financial system but we could still do what the banks can without them.

I think it is wrong to consider something which works as money separate from the financial system. Bitcoin in particular and cryptocurrencies in general change the views on payment and the role of the state. Money used to be state's prerogative for a long time. The government controls the sums, the price and authenticity. Now we understand that the amount can be controlled from within by the code, the price of be regulated purely by demand and supply and authenticity is confirmed intersubjectively. I think it has positive impact, because stimulates the officials to develop something new and attractive instead of fiat we have nowadays.

pearlmen

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Quote from: HabBear on April 07, 2017, 12:39:29 AM

Bitcoin offers an alternative to traditional (fiat based) finance.

There's no interest that's inherent in this system. There's no mechanism for easy lending. There's no money supply manipulation. There's no lending off of a balance sheet (only) asset, i.e., imaginary money.

Does Bitcoin offer a positive evolution to finance? If so, how?

I would say it will be positive if its manage very well and the only reservation I would have is regarding the upward trend in the price which is not backed by any factor other than the price in which its being traded and the moment this is happening then large amount will start chasing fewer goods that might lead to the crashing of the economy due to uncheck appreciation in the value of currency but the moment this is adequately taken care of by the shakers of the economy,then its positive all the way.

rickadone

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Quote from: Yakamoto on April 07, 2017, 11:17:03 AM

Quote from: HabBear on April 07, 2017, 12:39:29 AM

Bitcoin offers an alternative to traditional (fiat based) finance.

There's no interest that's inherent in this system. There's no mechanism for easy lending. There's no money supply manipulation. There's no lending off of a balance sheet (only) asset, i.e., imaginary money.

Does Bitcoin offer a positive evolution to finance? If so, how?

Although there is no interest, and this means that there is less overall need to invest your wealth into something (which helps to stimulate economic growth, meaning that we have a lot less economic growth in an entirely Bitcoin-based system) however you also keep a lot more of the value that your work has over time, meaning the stuff you do today would actually have value in 50 years.

Now, then again, it would require a huge change in the economic system we have in place today, so, based on the current lay of things, Bitcoin is a negative for "modern" economics, however it is good in other economic systems.

There's a lot more that can be talked about this, but this is just one post so far. I'd enjoy talking more about alternatives and how deflationary (or net-zero) economies could work.

I agree. There isn’t really a big difference in how it is used for finance purposes. The good outweighs the bad. Bitcoin is different from other currencies but what is bad about other currencies is good about bitcoin and what is good about Bitcoin is bad about the other currencies.

I think in the end, bitcoin has definitely changed finance but not for the better or worse. It is pretty much just a new way of doing the same thing.

pinkflower

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Quote from: hase0278 on April 08, 2017, 02:00:26 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on April 08, 2017, 12:26:21 AM

Quote from: HabBear on April 07, 2017, 12:39:29 AM

Bitcoin offers an alternative to traditional (fiat based) finance.

There's no interest that's inherent in this system. There's no mechanism for easy lending. There's no money supply manipulation. There's no lending off of a balance sheet (only) asset, i.e., imaginary money.

Does Bitcoin offer a positive evolution to finance? If so, how?

It doesnt. What it does is it disrupts the status quo and intends to give the people a way to make transactions without the banks being needed. Think of BTC as something that should be separate from the financial system but we could still do what the banks can without them.

Even if it disrupts status quo, it brings forth good changes. Even if it does bring good changes like bringing ease to online transactions and of course a good substite to credit cards, it also brings bad changes like bringing a new means for money laundering and more. To sum it all up, bitcoin changes finance not for the better and not for the worse with the intent to ease transactions which is good.

What kind of good changes? Like the creation of the darknet marketplaces which have been built around BTC? The ability for its users to launder drug money quite easily?

In the good also comes with a lot of bad. Dont get me wrong I love Bitcoin but dont give the argument that it will all change the world for the better. It can make it worse too.

DoublerHunter

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Quote from: virasog on April 08, 2017, 11:52:45 PM

Quote from: HabBear on April 07, 2017, 12:39:29 AM

Bitcoin offers an alternative to traditional (fiat based) finance.

There's no interest that's inherent in this system. There's no mechanism for easy lending. There's no money supply manipulation. There's no lending off of a balance sheet (only) asset, i.e., imaginary money.

Does Bitcoin offer a positive evolution to finance? If so, how?

Bitcoin affects financial problems of people in good and positive ways. Bitcoin solves my problem financially, especially when it is increasing rapidly.
Many people can prove that from here its positive effect.

Bitcoin does not only solve the financial problem of each person who use it but also it can solve the problem in having expensive fees in doing transactions like in paypal or in the banks. We can easily transfer bitcoin from one place to another or from our wallet to the receiver without going out and paying a lot of money for just the fees. Bitcoin will always solve the financial problems that we are currently facing if we just adopt bitcoin into our life.

virasog

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Quote from: HabBear on April 07, 2017, 12:39:29 AM

Bitcoin offers an alternative to traditional (fiat based) finance.

There's no interest that's inherent in this system. There's no mechanism for easy lending. There's no money supply manipulation. There's no lending off of a balance sheet (only) asset, i.e., imaginary money.

Does Bitcoin offer a positive evolution to finance? If so, how?

Bitcoin affects financial problems of people in good and positive ways. Bitcoin solves my problem financially, especially when it is increasing rapidly.
Many people can prove that from here its positive effect.

jtipt

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Quote from: HabBear on April 07, 2017, 12:39:29 AM

Bitcoin offers an alternative to traditional (fiat based) finance.
There's no interest that's inherent in this system. There's no mechanism for easy lending. There's no money supply manipulation. There's no lending off of a balance sheet (only) asset, i.e., imaginary money.
Does Bitcoin offer a positive evolution to finance? If so, how?

Bitcoin does offer a positive evolution to finance, the main reason for this is that unlike fiat system there is no middleman in BTC, while in fiat we have the banks and rely on back for most of our money but with BTC we are our own bank basically(this has been probably said a thousands of times). Unfortunately, bitcoin is not yet so mainstream that it would replace fiat, many people consider it as an asset than a currency which is hindering its progress.

coolcoinz

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Quote from: hase0278 on April 08, 2017, 02:00:26 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on April 08, 2017, 12:26:21 AM

Quote from: HabBear on April 07, 2017, 12:39:29 AM

Bitcoin offers an alternative to traditional (fiat based) finance.

There's no interest that's inherent in this system. There's no mechanism for easy lending. There's no money supply manipulation. There's no lending off of a balance sheet (only) asset, i.e., imaginary money.

Does Bitcoin offer a positive evolution to finance? If so, how?

It doesnt. What it does is it disrupts the status quo and intends to give the people a way to make transactions without the banks being needed. Think of BTC as something that should be separate from the financial system but we could still do what the banks can without them.

Even if it disrupts status quo, it brings forth good changes. Even if it does bring good changes like bringing ease to online transactions and of course a good substite to credit cards, it also brings bad changes like bringing a new means for money laundering and more. To sum it all up, bitcoin changes finance not for the better and not for the worse with the intent to ease transactions which is good.

You don't understand, disrupting the status quo is a good thing. It makes people think about alternatives instead of sitting comfortably in their chairs and taking things for granted.
Fiat has its disadvantages and it's not the ultimate form of payment, but it's been with us for so long that for a typical person it's hard to comprehend they could live without it.

DoublerHunter

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I think that it is for the better because if bitcoin will be added into our financial system then it will make the payments very smooth. Just thru online and it will help the economy of a certain country. Bitcoin can also be use as another type of remittances which is very affordable with its fees. Bitcoin will surely change the finance for a better.

BitFinnese

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Quote from: HabBear on April 07, 2017, 12:39:29 AM

Bitcoin offers an alternative to traditional (fiat based) finance.

There's no interest that's inherent in this system. There's no mechanism for easy lending. There's no money supply manipulation. There's no lending off of a balance sheet (only) asset, i.e., imaginary money.

Does Bitcoin offer a positive evolution to finance? If so, how?

I believe that Bitcoin have contributed a positive evolution to finance. It has a great impact on money transfer since Bitcoin being peer to peer crypto currency, the way of transfer had been easier with Bitcoin. It also nullify 3rd party processor that charge large fee for money transafers and somehow gives privacy to the people involved on the transaction since Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous.

Mometaskers

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I think it would be for that better, especially when the problems with confirmation time get fixed. Of course there are still issues like how to prevent it from being used in crime and to launder money but I believe solutions would eventually be found. After all, cryptos are still young compared to the fiat system we are using.

The fixed supply of btc means the price will continue to go up until all the coins have been mined. After that the value would probably just fluctuate depending depending on conversion with fiat (if that still exist). For me this makes btc a good investment tool in it's earlier stage and a stable store of value in the later.

Quote from: eternalgloom on April 07, 2017, 12:20:48 PM

Lack of supply manipulation, like you mentioned, could actually be considered a benefit.
The value of Bitcoin should only go up over time due to limited supply.

Now I'm also not sure if Bitcoin itself could ever replace the current financial system, but another future crypto currency might.

I agree with this. It's so unlike fiat where the government can just print more.

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Quote from: HabBear on April 08, 2017, 12:13:16 AM

Quote from: Hydrogen on April 07, 2017, 06:26:46 PM

Off the top of my head, btc has positives in terms of.

-Putting pressure on wire transfer services to reduce their transaction fees.
-Putting pressure on state sanctioned currencies to compete in terms of price stability.

There are positive ways in which btc changes finance for the better.

So i have to disagree with you. I don't think wire transfer services are changing their fee structure at all, but some people now realize there's an alternative to typical wire transfer options.

And how is Bitcoin encouraging fiat currency stability? Bitcoin is super unstable!

It's unstable, but by design it's stable. As I believe from John Nash's ideal money, a great form of money should have an inflation rate as close to zero as possible without being deflation, which allows the ideal money to be a reference money for value just as a metre is for length and allows people to trust the currency. The best way to achieve this is by creating a system in which there is natural inflation (introduction of new currency) which contributes to reducing deflation rates as adoption of this currency increases.

After the adoption has occurred, the rate of new currency's introduction should stabilise to zero to prevent future inflation, as Bitcoin's introduction does through halvings. This way, Bitcoin becomes stable as:

-Adoption has occured

-New money supply is prevented.

Governments are incapable of keeping this stability because the only way they can stabilise currency is by introducing more - bringing money out of circulation is not at all the same. Furthermore, when a currency has an amount of adoption which it can't move past without economic advancement, that's when it can stabilise. Fiat currencies achieve this through their use in nations, whereas Bitcoin does this through its potential global use.

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Quote from: HabBear on April 07, 2017, 12:39:29 AM

Does Bitcoin offer a positive evolution to finance? If so, how?

When you do not want to value your efforts/properties by government with their inflated momentary systems, you can choose (for example) either gold or bitcoin as your basic financial unit. But gold has many disadvantages practically for saving and for transacting, so bitcoin will be the right solution.

Quote from: HabBear on April 07, 2017, 12:39:29 AM

i.e., imaginary money.

Just think about other payments systems/medium of exchanges for example, currencies or gold or diamonds.
Fiats are just papers only governments back it to have some value. The gold has no significant differences from the iron bar in your window. We people buy it for some greater value because we are sure there is a demand for it when we want to sell it. Same to diamonds, just stones but demands gives them some value.

Now, why bitcoin should not have some value even it is only existing in electronic format ?

Xester

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Quote from: HabBear on April 07, 2017, 12:39:29 AM

Bitcoin offers an alternative to traditional (fiat based) finance.

There's no interest that's inherent in this system. There's no mechanism for easy lending. There's no money supply manipulation. There's no lending off of a balance sheet (only) asset, i.e., imaginary money.

Does Bitcoin offer a positive evolution to finance? If so, how?

Well bitcoin cannot be an alternative to finance but rather it can play as a form of payment and as a medium of exchange for goods and services but it can never be treated as a currency by countries. Thus it simply means that it can never be good enough to be used in lending or other forms of financial activity aside from payments.

iamTom123

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Hopefully I would say it is for the better but just like any human invention how we eventually use something can ultimately define whether an invention can be better for the whole mankind or just another tool which a select people can use to manipulate for their own vested interest. I am expecting that Bitcoin can be a shining light in a world that is getting a little bit darker due to many challenges we are facing as a human race. As to financial transactions, Bitcoin and its technology behind can be of big use and we already know that...we are right now waiting for a massive or widespread adoption of the blockchain technology on many applications. Bitcoin is presenting many advantages and only little disadvantages which can easily be managed.

Topic: Bitcoin changes finance - but for the better or the worse? (Read 1916 times)