When all ''Joe six-packs'' finds out how awsome Bitcoin is, they will see that banks are a bunch of f*** parasites.
Libertarianism on a globle scale inc!
Topic: bitcoin changing my ideology from socialism to libertarianism! What about you? - page 40. (Read 33760 times)
August 04, 2014, 10:11:23 AM
August 04, 2014, 10:09:49 AM
You should take the time to read Rand's writing. She was very much against the crony capitalist "good old boys club."
really? People like Alan Greenspan weren't in her "inner circle"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIk5C2qsRH8
even if, she can be "against" things all she likes, but in reality, historically, since the beginning of civilization, trade has never existed without "the club". And even if it does for a while (the American pioneers perhaps), the clubs will find a way to take control again. Game theory / Nash equilibrium type of thing. Bitcoin may finally overcome this if a) it does achieve to shift power and abolish the state as we know it, and b) the wealthy BTC dynasties won't become the new aristocracy over the next generations and repeat history all over again (it's the information age that may prevent that).
August 04, 2014, 10:01:42 AM
Well, seems bitcoin really does have the power to chnage things 
. I wonder what's next?
I'm not a fan of Marxist Socialism.
. I wonder what's next?I'm a socialist in the classic Marxist sense, regardless of what happens with Bitcoin. For me, BTC is a tool to show the evil of Atlantic geopolitical dominance (US and Western bankers) and their manipulation of money (e.g. petroleum available only for dollars).
I'm not a fan of Marxist Socialism.
August 04, 2014, 09:54:13 AM
right, "Socialism" does not mean what most US-Americans think and how they use that word all the time. The term "Socialism" originally meant workers to be in control of the means of production, i.e. co-ops instead of bosses. It doesn't say anything about a (welfare) state.
Bitcoin is perfectly compatible with that kind of socialism.
It's also a more natural form of self-organization in a truly anarchistic society. Historically, if workers felt exploited by their capitalist bosses, they went on strike, mutiny, and eventually took over the factory, i.e. the means of production. Only the old establishment's countermeasures prevented that from happening further, i.e. through guards, police, etc. (That's why both von Mises and Rand were not anarchists, and were convinced that a minimal state is necessary, s. Night-watchman state.)
Reality unfortunately is not like Ayn Rand's Freudian ramblings. The first, old capitalists were not "heroes", they did not "work hard" to build the factory, they were merely privileged by being in the same gentlemen's clubs as the old aristocracy and political leaders. http://exiledonline.com/recovered-economic-history-everyone-but-an-idiot-knows-that-the-lower-classes-must-be-kept-poor-or-they-will-never-be-industrious/
Bitcoin is perfectly compatible with that kind of socialism.
It's also a more natural form of self-organization in a truly anarchistic society. Historically, if workers felt exploited by their capitalist bosses, they went on strike, mutiny, and eventually took over the factory, i.e. the means of production. Only the old establishment's countermeasures prevented that from happening further, i.e. through guards, police, etc. (That's why both von Mises and Rand were not anarchists, and were convinced that a minimal state is necessary, s. Night-watchman state.)
Reality unfortunately is not like Ayn Rand's Freudian ramblings. The first, old capitalists were not "heroes", they did not "work hard" to build the factory, they were merely privileged by being in the same gentlemen's clubs as the old aristocracy and political leaders. http://exiledonline.com/recovered-economic-history-everyone-but-an-idiot-knows-that-the-lower-classes-must-be-kept-poor-or-they-will-never-be-industrious/
You should take the time to read Rand's writing. She was very much against the crony capitalist "good old boys club."
August 04, 2014, 08:19:21 AM
I'm a socialist in the classic Marxist sense, regardless of what happens with Bitcoin. For me, BTC is a tool to show the evil of Atlantic geopolitical dominance (US and Western bankers) and their manipulation of money (e.g. petroleum available only for dollars).
August 04, 2014, 08:07:53 AM
I think that definition of socialism and libertarianism vary between different parts of the world.
In USA socialism is very bade word but in Europe is somehow positive because it means social care by the government for the people.
So, when someone use such strong words like socialism and libertarianism we should first check from where this person coming in order to understand what socialism and libertarianism mean for him/her.
In USA socialism is very bade word but in Europe is somehow positive because it means social care by the government for the people.
So, when someone use such strong words like socialism and libertarianism we should first check from where this person coming in order to understand what socialism and libertarianism mean for him/her.
August 04, 2014, 07:40:27 AM
one day the training wheels will come off and you'll no longer need to colour the world in one dogma. learn from all. there's no right or wrong way, just different tradeoffs and different values (some better and more human than others).
August 04, 2014, 07:03:15 AM
The key element here is that you're going from one ideology to the next, when in practice, ideologies are the refuge of the ignorant.
August 04, 2014, 06:49:15 AM
Similar change to my views/beliefs. I always have a fuck all governments attitude but I feel like a real anarchist/libertarian for one year, thank Bitcoin.
August 04, 2014, 06:36:17 AM
right, "Socialism" does not mean what most US-Americans think and how they use that word all the time. The term "Socialism" originally meant workers to be in control of the means of production, i.e. co-ops instead of bosses. It doesn't say anything about a (welfare) state.
Bitcoin is perfectly compatible with that kind of socialism.
It's also a more natural form of self-organization in a truly anarchistic society. Historically, if workers felt exploited by their capitalist bosses, they went on strike, mutiny, and eventually took over the factory, i.e. the means of production. Only the old establishment's countermeasures prevented that from happening further, i.e. through guards, police, etc. (That's why both von Mises and Rand were not anarchists, and were convinced that a minimal state is necessary, s. Night-watchman state.)
Reality unfortunately is not like Ayn Rand's Freudian ramblings. The first, old capitalists were not "heroes", they did not "work hard" to build the factory, they were merely privileged by being in the same gentlemen's clubs as the old aristocracy and political leaders. http://exiledonline.com/recovered-economic-history-everyone-but-an-idiot-knows-that-the-lower-classes-must-be-kept-poor-or-they-will-never-be-industrious/
Bitcoin is perfectly compatible with that kind of socialism.
It's also a more natural form of self-organization in a truly anarchistic society. Historically, if workers felt exploited by their capitalist bosses, they went on strike, mutiny, and eventually took over the factory, i.e. the means of production. Only the old establishment's countermeasures prevented that from happening further, i.e. through guards, police, etc. (That's why both von Mises and Rand were not anarchists, and were convinced that a minimal state is necessary, s. Night-watchman state.)
Reality unfortunately is not like Ayn Rand's Freudian ramblings. The first, old capitalists were not "heroes", they did not "work hard" to build the factory, they were merely privileged by being in the same gentlemen's clubs as the old aristocracy and political leaders. http://exiledonline.com/recovered-economic-history-everyone-but-an-idiot-knows-that-the-lower-classes-must-be-kept-poor-or-they-will-never-be-industrious/
August 04, 2014, 06:28:13 AM
yeah ever since I got involved with bitcoins... my ideology is slowly changing from
being pro socialism to pro libertarianism...
I now feel happy and liberated when I think about the pleasures of personal wealth..
are you having such changes?
being pro socialism to pro libertarianism...
I now feel happy and liberated when I think about the pleasures of personal wealth..
are you having such changes?
Careful! You'll end up an anarchist in another year!
But the principles are more important than the profit.
The difference between libertarianism and anarchism is about 6 months!
August 04, 2014, 06:09:42 AM
What was it about bitcoin that made you switch to Libertarianism? Bitcoin can still be used in socialistic ways, and as SOAD says you can also be a Libertarian Socialist. I'm interested to know how bitcoin caused this shift in you, though.
August 04, 2014, 06:05:32 AM
Is this what bitcoin is finally
1) A currency
2) An asset
3) An ideology Manipulator
1) A currency
2) An asset
3) An ideology Manipulator
August 04, 2014, 05:19:52 AM
My political ideals have changed quite dramatically all my life, in the last 5 years im now settled on anarcho capitalism being the only current practical "solution".
Ideally i'd prefer a society without "money" and resources distributed via science so a RBE but its not currently possible.
August 04, 2014, 05:11:11 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
You can be both or a mixture as they can be interchangeable, but why even pigeonhole your beliefs?
You can be both or a mixture as they can be interchangeable, but why even pigeonhole your beliefs?
August 04, 2014, 05:05:10 AM
yeah ever since I got involved with bitcoins... my ideology is slowly changing from
being pro socialism to pro libertarianism...
I now feel happy and liberated when I think about the pleasures of personal wealth..
are you having such changes?
being pro socialism to pro libertarianism...
I now feel happy and liberated when I think about the pleasures of personal wealth..
are you having such changes?
The path between socialism and libertarianism, or at least the path between good socialism and good libertarianism, is not as long and weird as one may think.
I am a libertarian at heart, yet I often support policies that one may categorize as "socialist," like BIG (Basic Income Guarantee). I support these policies not despite of, but rather because of my libertarian ideas: I value self-ownership, autonomy, and personal freedom for everyone, and I think personal freedom must include the freedom to eat and have a modest but decent quality of life. I am against both Big Capital and Big Government, and I think Bitcoin can be a powerful weapon against both.
August 03, 2014, 11:46:58 PM
yeah ever since I got involved with bitcoins... my ideology is slowly changing from
being pro socialism to pro libertarianism...
I now feel happy and liberated when I think about the pleasures of personal wealth..
are you having such changes?
being pro socialism to pro libertarianism...
I now feel happy and liberated when I think about the pleasures of personal wealth..
are you having such changes?
Careful! You'll end up an anarchist in another year!
But the principles are more important than the profit.
August 03, 2014, 11:41:18 PM
Since kid, instinctively I have always felt the right to private property and there is nothing wrong in amassing wealth.
But somewhere down the line, I was fooled by pseudo altruistic politicians into buying their ideologies which included socialism.. there were days I believed wealth is evil...
Ever since I got involved with bitcoins... my ideology is slowly changing back from being pro Socialism to pro Libertarianism...
regretting every minute with tears...
But feel happy and Liberated when I think about the pleasures of Personal wealth..Going to become an entrepreneur and try to amass wealth.
Its like returning back to your instincts and that truly feels liberated.
Are you having such changes?
its almost 2 years and The Transformation is complete[june 2017]...
Now I am an Anarchist...
But somewhere down the line, I was fooled by pseudo altruistic politicians into buying their ideologies which included socialism.. there were days I believed wealth is evil...
Ever since I got involved with bitcoins... my ideology is slowly changing back from being pro Socialism to pro Libertarianism...
regretting every minute with tears...
But feel happy and Liberated when I think about the pleasures of Personal wealth..Going to become an entrepreneur and try to amass wealth.
Its like returning back to your instincts and that truly feels liberated.
Are you having such changes?
its almost 2 years and The Transformation is complete[june 2017]...
Now I am an Anarchist...
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